Iep Report On The Badger Cull; Was The Cull Ever About Btb?

[Matt 160]

I'll bow to your obviously better knowledge and experience Kit.

 

Especially since I don't have a degree in Environmental Science

 

You crack on. You obviously know much more about culling badgers and controlling disease than me

[Fud 26]

 

 

So let me get this clear, we are saying that they can't get pinged from 50 yds with a .223 and they can't be cage trapped so how exactly do you get close enough to innoculate !??

 

Nonsense, absolute nonsense

No idea but it's worked in Wales, they managed to vaccinate a load of them; maybe the badgers are friendly to bunny huggers?

Other than tb, do you not see some areas badgers are a problem and need controlling? If so, by what means do you suggest?

[WILF 46,597]

 

So let me get this clear, we are saying that they can't get pinged from 50 yds with a .223 and they can't be cage trapped so how exactly do you get close enough to innoculate !??

Nonsense, absolute nonsense

 

No idea but it's worked in Wales, they managed to vaccinate a load of them; maybe the badgers are friendly to bunny huggers?

How many is a "load" ?..........what percentage of the population ?

[Ideation 8,216]

Couple of things -

 

- Who told you it worked in Wales? I would love to know where a bouts this TB free mecca is? Because every place I go in Wales, all I hear is anger and frustration surrounding the governments attitude toward badgers.

 

- Second - Do you not feel that the cull was somewhat set up to fail, being dictated to from above by people who have zero knowledge and understanding of the kind of job they are trying to run?

 

- Also as stated, the problem of the badger extends far beyond the T.B side of things, although this is obviously the most major headache economically, how would vaccinating solve this?

 

- It's very simple - you allow people to do it locally to themselves as part of a wider national scheme, where badger numbers are properly monitored and then reduced at the land owners discretion using methods that work, which would include shooting, trapping and yes terrier work. The latter being one of the most efficient methods to cull an area effectively.

[danw 1,748]

 

I am far aware that if the parameters are wrong it can't be deemed a failure from the practical part of the cull but as the pilot is essentially a large scale experiment, if the things before the cull started are incorrect, the whole thing is; I suggest that if they wish to do a cull correctly that they must make sure their details are correct.

 

My mistake as of how I worded the part on Cage trapping, This is what I meant to highlight

 

10.3.3. The decision to include cage trapping as a primary method of badger

removal, taken without consulting the IEP

I'm pretty sure that anyone who was determining whether an animal is alive or dead wouldn't be fooled by the death throws of corpse. I do know about these post mortem movements having nearly been kicked off my feet by a most certainly dead horse (embarrassing I know but I was young and stupid) and seen a pigeon flapping for well into a minute after after bird shot took it's head off. I've sadly not gotten to go hunting or shooting that much recently after a hunting accident which left me rather damaged.

I think that in denying "10.4.5. It is extremely likely that between 7.4% and 22.8% of badgers that were shot at were still alive after 5 min" you must believe that those conducting the study it's self are plain fools, unable to use their own gauge of if an animal is still alive or not.

My concern as for the shots not on the recommended target shows potential complacency, if instructed to shoot in a specific area, you do; 15% is a lot of badgers who were shot in essentially the wrong place. Regardless of whether it was humane or not, those shots, in my eyes shouldn't have been taken; I'm the sort of guy to wait for the perfect shot, not blast away at the birds, hoping to hit one or at least wing it bad enough the dog gets a go. They set out the "Best Practice Guidelines" for a reason

Foxes do carry bTB, as do the Hunt and walkers too; if we have rights to cull the badger then automatically we should be managing other routes of infection like the fox, but also the hunt and the public

All in all, a cull of brocks for bTB I feel is stupidly expensive and what we need is better farming methods rather than constant culling, at the end of the day, culling without complete eradication will be ineffective; we need better national herd health, bio-security, certainly better bTB tests and to build bTB resistance in animals which can be done through vaccination which is far cheaper than culling and works as the age old "Give a man a fish..."

I'm not sure if I mentioned earlier but I've got a degree in Environmental Science and I don't bother with fluffy journalism; just the facts and for me, the science speaks for it'self.

 

Nothing would please me more than removing the general public's access to the countryside during the foot and mouth outbreaks it was startling just how many ignorant twats continued to try and use the footpaths even though we where under quarantine.

[Themoocher 231]

Who cares.

Bring back Digging thats what I say

 

In fact the princess had a better idea.

Gas the fookers :laugh:

[Kitsune 0]

 

 

So let me get this clear, we are saying that they can't get pinged from 50 yds with a .223 and they can't be cage trapped so how exactly do you get close enough to innoculate !??

Nonsense, absolute nonsense

No idea but it's worked in Wales, they managed to vaccinate a load of them; maybe the badgers are friendly to bunny huggers?

How many is a "load" ?..........what percentage of the population ?

 

Ok, figures in the vaccination; West Wales has been vaccinating for two years now (after the fluffy welsh assembly wouldn't allow culling, Antis), they vaccinated 1,424 black and whites in their first year and rumoured more this year, so far their bTB in cattle is down by a quarter, the trial is going on for 5 years so they are expecting far better results in the long run.

 

Couple of things -

- Who told you it worked in Wales? I would love to know where a bouts this TB free mecca is? Because every place I go in Wales, all I hear is anger and frustration surrounding the governments attitude toward badgers.

 

- Second - Do you not feel that the cull was somewhat set up to fail, being dictated to from above by people who have zero knowledge and understanding of the kind of job they are trying to run?

 

 

-I'm sure there are places where it's not shown enough effects in bTB numbers yet but for the most part it is working; Pembrokeshire/ Carmarthenshire area

 

Totally, the problem is

-People in parliament don't know what their talking about, they wouldn't be able to identify a cow or sheep (yeah some shoot but they still don't know the countryside)

-The guys on the land typically don't do "legal" or "Political" which is needed for this especially when anti's and the other hippies are involved (Dr Braindead included)

 

There is too much of a divide between the "Honorable Gentlemen" in parliment and the real farmers who are loosing livestock; this cull was a failure because of how it was put together, doomed from the start and so are the successive years of these pilot culls.

 

Nothing would please me more than removing the general public's access to the countryside during the foot and mouth outbreaks it was startling just how many ignorant twats continued to try and use the footpaths even though we where under quarantine.

 

Don't even get me started on the Foot and Mouth outbreak, that was a total f*ck up; also I believe it caused this bTB problem to be a national emergency rather than a local problem

 

My personal recommendations...

 

Scrap the Cull, Perturbation is the worst thing that can happen for the countryside; just deal with the high numbers.

 

Vaccinate! so trap, test; inject the bTB free and cull the reactors. Work first of all on bTB free zones near hotspots to stop the spread of bTB outwards. Let the anti's help out with the vaccination, I'm sure they will change their minds after they come face to face with a cornered badger. It will keep them sweet, you never know, they may stop thinking of us as being "cold blooded raw meat eaters" (quoted from one's attack at me couple years back at Cheltenham's Countryside Festival).

 

A live healthy bTB free, Vaccinated badger is more use to us all than a dead badger any day, especially seeing as badgers are so blood territorial; Even if they cause damage to other parts of the infrastructure, We need to eradicate bTB in our national herd first, that has to be our top priority; screw the bees, game birds and the crops they damage, save the cows and steers first, that is people's livelihoods.

[paulus 26]

 

 

 

So let me get this clear, we are saying that they can't get pinged from 50 yds with a .223 and they can't be cage trapped so how exactly do you get close enough to innoculate !??

Nonsense, absolute nonsense

No idea but it's worked in Wales, they managed to vaccinate a load of them; maybe the badgers are friendly to bunny huggers?

How many is a "load" ?..........what percentage of the population ?

 

Ok, figures in the vaccination; West Wales has been vaccinating for two years now (after the fluffy welsh assembly wouldn't allow culling, Antis), they vaccinated 1,424 black and whites in their first year and rumoured more this year, so far their bTB in cattle is down by a quarter, the trial is going on for 5 years so they are expecting far better results in the long run.

 

Couple of things -

- Who told you it worked in Wales? I would love to know where a bouts this TB free mecca is? Because every place I go in Wales, all I hear is anger and frustration surrounding the governments attitude toward badgers.

 

- Second - Do you not feel that the cull was somewhat set up to fail, being dictated to from above by people who have zero knowledge and understanding of the kind of job they are trying to run?

 

 

-I'm sure there are places where it's not shown enough effects in bTB numbers yet but for the most part it is working; Pembrokeshire/ Carmarthenshire area

 

Totally, the problem is

-People in parliament don't know what their talking about, they wouldn't be able to identify a cow or sheep (yeah some shoot but they still don't know the countryside)

-The guys on the land typically don't do "legal" or "Political" which is needed for this especially when anti's and the other hippies are involved (Dr Braindead included)

 

There is too much of a divide between the "Honorable Gentlemen" in parliment and the real farmers who are loosing livestock; this cull was a failure because of how it was put together, doomed from the start and so are the successive years of these pilot culls.

 

Nothing would please me more than removing the general public's access to the countryside during the foot and mouth outbreaks it was startling just how many ignorant twats continued to try and use the footpaths even though we where under quarantine.

 

Don't even get me started on the Foot and Mouth outbreak, that was a total f*ck up; also I believe it caused this bTB problem to be a national emergency rather than a local problem

 

My personal recommendations...

 

Scrap the Cull, Perturbation is the worst thing that can happen for the countryside; just deal with the high numbers.

 

Vaccinate! so trap, test; inject the bTB free and cull the reactors. Work first of all on bTB free zones near hotspots to stop the spread of bTB outwards. Let the anti's help out with the vaccination, I'm sure they will change their minds after they come face to face with a cornered badger. It will keep them sweet, you never know, they may stop thinking of us as being "cold blooded raw meat eaters" (quoted from one's attack at me couple years back at Cheltenham's Countryside Festival).

 

A live healthy bTB free, Vaccinated badger is more use to us all than a dead badger any day, especially seeing as badgers are so blood territorial; Even if they cause damage to other parts of the infrastructure, We need to eradicate bTB in our national herd first, that has to be our top priority; screw the bees, game birds and the crops they damage, save the cows and steers first, that is people's livelihoods.

 

so people who have invested time and money in game birds and crops are to be chucked to the wind in your solution, if their numbers are causing a problem there needs to be a solution for all and that's as easy as issuing licenses to farmers/keepers/greenkeepers/cemetery workers and who ever else needs to control their numbers at ground level.

[mushroom 12,869]

 

 

 

So let me get this clear, we are saying that they can't get pinged from 50 yds with a .223 and they can't be cage trapped so how exactly do you get close enough to innoculate !??

Nonsense, absolute nonsense

No idea but it's worked in Wales, they managed to vaccinate a load of them; maybe the badgers are friendly to bunny huggers?

How many is a "load" ?..........what percentage of the population ?

 

Ok, figures in the vaccination; West Wales has been vaccinating for two years now (after the fluffy welsh assembly wouldn't allow culling, Antis), they vaccinated 1,424 black and whites in their first year and rumoured more this year, so far their bTB in cattle is down by a quarter, the trial is going on for 5 years so they are expecting far better results in the long run.

 

Couple of things -

- Who told you it worked in Wales? I would love to know where a bouts this TB free mecca is? Because every place I go in Wales, all I hear is anger and frustration surrounding the governments attitude toward badgers.

 

- Second - Do you not feel that the cull was somewhat set up to fail, being dictated to from above by people who have zero knowledge and understanding of the kind of job they are trying to run?

 

 

-I'm sure there are places where it's not shown enough effects in bTB numbers yet but for the most part it is working; Pembrokeshire/ Carmarthenshire area

 

Totally, the problem is

-People in parliament don't know what their talking about, they wouldn't be able to identify a cow or sheep (yeah some shoot but they still don't know the countryside)

-The guys on the land typically don't do "legal" or "Political" which is needed for this especially when anti's and the other hippies are involved (Dr Braindead included)

 

There is too much of a divide between the "Honorable Gentlemen" in parliment and the real farmers who are loosing livestock; this cull was a failure because of how it was put together, doomed from the start and so are the successive years of these pilot culls.

 

Nothing would please me more than removing the general public's access to the countryside during the foot and mouth outbreaks it was startling just how many ignorant twats continued to try and use the footpaths even though we where under quarantine.

 

Don't even get me started on the Foot and Mouth outbreak, that was a total f*ck up; also I believe it caused this bTB problem to be a national emergency rather than a local problem

 

My personal recommendations...

 

Scrap the Cull, Perturbation is the worst thing that can happen for the countryside; just deal with the high numbers.

 

Vaccinate! so trap, test; inject the bTB free and cull the reactors. Work first of all on bTB free zones near hotspots to stop the spread of bTB outwards. Let the anti's help out with the vaccination, I'm sure they will change their minds after they come face to face with a cornered badger. It will keep them sweet, you never know, they may stop thinking of us as being "cold blooded raw meat eaters" (quoted from one's attack at me couple years back at Cheltenham's Countryside Festival).

 

A live healthy bTB free, Vaccinated badger is more use to us all than a dead badger any day, especially seeing as badgers are so blood territorial; Even if they cause damage to other parts of the infrastructure, We need to eradicate bTB in our national herd first, that has to be our top priority; screw the bees, game birds and the crops they damage, save the cows and steers first, that is people's livelihoods.

Ask yourself, "WTF am I doing on this site?"

[Kitsune 0]

"so people who have invested time and money in game birds and crops are to be chucked to the wind in your solution, if their numbers are causing a problem there needs to be a solution for all and that's as easy as issuing licenses to farmers/keepers/greenkeepers/cemetery workers and who ever else needs to control their numbers at ground level."

 

In my "Solution" I don't aim to Chuck them to the wind but just not to treat the gamebird and crop threat with the same urgency as the problem we have for cattle TB, Badgers pose a significant threat to birds and crops but a even bigger threat to cattle. If the population of badgers is cleaned up, then once that is sorted, then downsized, there won't be any risk of perturbation, we won't have dirty badgers spreading TB when displaced just the risk of displacing them when they are controlled. My proposal is to fix bTB in Badgers, then address their overpopulation problem when the time is right not rush into it when there is risk of making the TB problem worse.

 

"Ask yourself, "WTF am I doing on this site?" :huh:"

 

Probably the same reason as all you other guys, Mushroom I get that you don't like me but I'm just saying things that need to be said.

 

If we (the Hunters, Shooters, Terriermen and Gamekeepers) go out there, Against the "bunny huggers" the public will demonise us, not the AR brigade but the countryside people. Yeah it's rather fun going out and with a gun or terrier but in the end of the day we'll make the divide between Country people and the Townies bigger and at the end of the day, it's the Townies who have more votes than we do. I think it's worth sacrificing a percentage of our game and crops if it means we are to keep going years to come, and if we also get bTB out of the national herd, Unite

[mushroom 12,869]

"so people who have invested time and money in game birds and crops are to be chucked to the wind in your solution, if their numbers are causing a problem there needs to be a solution for all and that's as easy as issuing licenses to farmers/keepers/greenkeepers/cemetery workers and who ever else needs to control their numbers at ground level."

 

In my "Solution" I don't aim to Chuck them to the wind but just not to treat the gamebird and crop threat with the same urgency as the problem we have for cattle TB, Badgers pose a significant threat to birds and crops but a even bigger threat to cattle. If the population of badgers is cleaned up, then once that is sorted, then downsized, there won't be any risk of perturbation, we won't have dirty badgers spreading TB when displaced just the risk of displacing them when they are controlled. My proposal is to fix bTB in Badgers, then address their overpopulation problem when the time is right not rush into it when there is risk of making the TB problem worse.

 

"Ask yourself, "WTF am I doing on this site?" :huh:"

 

Probably the same reason as all you other guys, Mushroom I get that you don't like me but I'm just saying things that need to be said.

 

If we (the Hunters, Shooters, Terriermen and Gamekeepers) go out there, Against the "bunny huggers" the public will demonise us, not the AR brigade but the countryside people. Yeah it's rather fun going out and with a gun or terrier but in the end of the day we'll make the divide between Country people and the Townies bigger and at the end of the day, it's the Townies who have more votes than we do. I think it's worth sacrificing a percentage of our game and crops if it means we are to keep going years to come, and if we also get bTB out of the national herd, Unite

Fella this is the internet I couldn't give two swings of Baws bawbag about you. You have sweetFA posts to your name and come on giving it the old anti routine "cull was ineffective" etc etc, do you actually know anybody involved in the cull because there's one or two on here who could probably set you right.

 

As previously said the cull was not AS effective as it could of been because of dirty fuuckin bunny huggers who basically should have been tazered and twatted with batons like all terrorists deserve

[Qbgrey 4,068]

bring back terrier work.let a lurcher mop up injured ,ran on shot badgers ,hey presto job done at zero costs.why o why do we ave thheses percentages,enviro experts talking figures.take a look out thhe window see for yourselfs,the answer aint onb your stats graph

[Kitsune 0]

Not many posts because I've just recently decided to bother with this forum, until really recently I have been to busy to be on hunting forums or actually to go shooting or hunting. Remember there was a time Mushroom that you had few posts, it didn't mean what you had to say was of any less importance than the next guy with 10,000 posts, it just meant that he wasn't outside shooting, exercising the dogs but was inside in the warm in front of a computer of all things. As for people involved in the cull, do I know any marksmen? not from this cull, do I know any farmers who are suffering from bTB Yes, have I talked to scientists involved with the culling of badgers, yes; do I know gamekeepers who are loosing stock and having problems with badgers, yes. Have you?

 

Because I'm new on this site doesn't mean that I'm any less than you; I'm Country borne and raised, studied Countryside and Game Management before deciding to pursue Environmental Science as a BSc Hons. I've worked the land (Arable, Beef, dairy, sheep and laying hen) as a relief farmer and now I'm based in a city.

 

For me, the cull was as the antis say "Ineffective" but I believe so because it was put together by fools and politicians from the beginning, it was doomed from the start and yeah if only the police did do that...

 

They were the good old days Qbgrey but with the anti pressure, I don't see it happening, hunting Charlie with a pack is illegal let alone a protected animal

 

My concerns are if we go in heavy handed, the problem will get worse before it gets better, we will be blamed and we could also have psycho bunny huggers come after anyone field-sports for retribution; it's not worth it for the quick fix

[gonetoearth 5,144]

Utter crap so you beleave putting the badger up even higher on the pedistal He already occupies is the answer lol.

While the over population of this creature is ravaging ground nesting birds and mamals. Other than the farmed type that may never recover. Talk shit to ever you want but dont try and preach your shite to people that know better

[Kitsune 0]

Utter crap so you beleave putting the badger up even higher on the pedistal He already occupies is the answer lol.

While the over population of this creature is ravaging ground nesting birds and mamals. Other than the farmed type that may never recover. Talk shit to ever you want but dont try and preach your shite to people that know better

Believe what you like, how high the pedestal is doesn't count for anything if we lose our way of life, our right to shoot or if the Anti's make it too hard; you never know, if the public take a disliking to use enough for killing their "pretty" badgers, Parliament could stop our fun. you know they'll do anything for votes, look at the Tories, I thought they were on our side.

 

If you don't agree with what I'm saying, feel free to disregard it which is what I'm doing to your post