Is It Time For Davey Moyes To Go?

[gnasher16 30,566]

  On 14/04/2014 at 14:01, hutch6 said:

 

  On 14/04/2014 at 13:37, gnasher16 said:

 

  On 14/04/2014 at 13:09, hutch6 said:

 

  On 14/04/2014 at 12:41, gnasher16 said:

 

  On 14/04/2014 at 12:13, hutch6 said:

 

  On 14/04/2014 at 11:33, gnasher16 said:

If they dont win something big theres a lot of their fans who will be calling for his head.........this depressingly boring football he sets his teams out to play will be tolerated while they win things.......but if they dont......

 

Define entertaining football Gnasher as Jose's GD record is pretty good?

 

GF GA GD

1002 364 +638

 

His win percentage is 67.35% in as opposed to:

 

Moyes - 44.64%

Wenger - 53.68%

Pellegrini - 50.37%

Ferguson - 58.23%

Allardyce - 39.86%

Benitez - 50.87%

Mancini - 55.78%

Martinez - 40.18%

 

You can't say he's not up there in the best of the best.

 

Im not saying he,s not up there with the best,he is...........but his football in the big matches is tediously effective........im just a football fan and as a neutral i want to see a good game when the best clubs in the land meet.............we have all looked forward to the big games Chelsea have been involved in and nearly all of them have been turned into a boring endurance test .......his record against the other big clubs shows he is effective,it also shows less goals per game,more nil nil draws,playing no strikers etc.............wherever Mourinho go,s he comes with guarentees.......guarenteed trophies.....guarenteed to spend shed loads of money......guarenteed to piss everyone off.....guarenteed to watch poor football.......guarenteed he,ll be gone within 3 years.

Personally i dont think that is what constitutes a great manager regardless of the success he has.................look at one of the traditionally big ties of the calender Man Utd v Chelsea..............in his absence there was 20 games played between the 2 clubs and not one nil nil draw...............he comes back and straight away theres a nil nil draw at home.....and probably the most dullest Fa Cup final in recent memory.

 

 

 

Chelsea vs Man Utd - 9 fixtures in total under Jose and only 2 0-0 results. You forgot to mention the 3-1 smashing in Jan this year Gnash.

 

Chelsea vs Arsenal - 11 fixtures in total under Jose and only 2 0-0 results. They also smashed Arsenal 6-0 back in March, what a boring game.

 

Chelsea vs Liverpool - 18 fixture sin total under Jose and only 3 0-0 results.

 

So that is a total of 38 "Big four fixtures" during his time at Chelsea so far and only 7 0-0 results.

 

This season so far you've had:

 

Vs Liverpool - 3-3 agg over 3 fixtures.

Vs Arsenal - 8-0agg over 2 fixtures

Vs Man Utd - 3-1agg over 2 fixtures

Vs Man City - 3-3agg over 3 fixtures.

 

10 fixtures and 24 goals.

 

 

 

 

Arsenal,Liverpool,Man Utd,City and Spurs have an average of 5.5 % nil nil draws against all the other clubs................against Chelsea they have an average of 15.1 % nil nil draws.

 

The fact is mate stats can be made to look however we want........talk to Chelsea fans who regularly go to games see how they feel......a lot of them are not happy......fans of big clubs might accept boring negative football while their teams winning things but when its not.......lets have it right forget the stats Chelsea have won trophies the last 2 years with 2 different managers this year theres a good chance they will win nothing.

 

 

I'm sorry Gnash, I just thought scoring more goals and conceding less this season and a higher place position was a better season than last 3 or 4 seasons. Seems I was wrong.

 

I also thought beating your main rivals convincingly or having bragging rights in your home town/city was a good thing:

 

Chelsea 2 - 0 Fulham

Chelsea 2 - 1 Man City

West Ham 0 - 3 Chelsea

Chelsea 2 - 1 Crystal Palace

Chelsea 2 1 Liverpool

Chelsea 3 - 1 Man Utd

Man City 0 - 1 Chelsea

Fulham 1 - 3 Chelsea

Chelsea 4 - 0 Spurs

Chelsea 6 - 0 Arsenal

 

Obviously I was wrong and the Russian money has raised the expectation level now to the point where anything less than all four trophies every year is a disaster.

 

Kind of why I fell out with football now you can "buy" a title.

 

Let's not forget that Arsenal have gone NINE years without any silverware. Shows the difference the money makes in both team and fans.

 

 

 

So all that..........and you,ve completely missed the point ...........the point in this discussion wasnt " winning football matches " in the first place......it was the boring negative football Mourinho plays.

 

Why do you think the Russian elbowed him in the first place !

[markja 51]

mourinho has won most things in four different countries so his credentials cant be nocked but he plays boring football and he himself is a complete fooking arsehole, with the way he behaves

[hutch6 550]

  On 14/04/2014 at 14:52, gnasher16 said:

 

 

So all that..........and you,ve completely missed the point ...........the point in this discussion wasnt " winning football matches " in the first place......it was the boring negative football Mourinho plays.

 

Why do you think the Russian elbowed him in the first place !

 

 

I thought all of that Hoo-Hah was about Shevchenko and being the son Abramovich never had and pretty much saying to José "I pay the wages around here I want him to play" even though he was a disaster in the premier league and the style of football Chelsea played didn't suit him so he was never going to get the service. Was that not it?

 

If it was his panache for boring football why have him back if he's going to have the team playing boring football again? Weren't the fans asking for him to come back as well and sorry to see him leave for Inter in the first place?

[gnasher16 30,566]

I suppose it depends what Chelsea fans you talk to id imagine like any club they dont all think the same............but one things for sure if they dont win anything this year more and more will want him out..............plenty never wanted him back in the first place,lets not forget virtually everyone in England was sick of him not just Chelsea fans............I say again fans,and more than likely Abramovich will worship him if he brings trophies............if he doesnt his style of football and the man himself is not exactly endearing is it.

[WILF 48,100]

I can't stand Chelsea or most of their fans that I meet but I can't bring myself to knock Mourinho......he has won things, he wins matches and trophies.....that's what competitive sport is all about for those teams in the running.

 

Different for teams like us whose owners sole aim is to "stay up".......it's one thing to get dishes up boring, negative shit when you are gonna get knocked about in the league anyway but quiet another when you are seriously starting every season with your eyes on the prizes !

 

Yes he is an arrogant c**t, again IMHO there's nothing wrong with that in sport......in fact I would go as far as to say its a pre-requisite for a winners mentality !!

 

The conversation over Mourinho is almost bollocks, as the man wins things........you can't compare him to the likes of Fat Head or Moyes because they don't !!

[gnasher16 30,566]

Its the same philosophy just different levels though Wilf.......same as us down at West Ham our manager plays negative football,when it looked like we was going down we wanted him gone,now we are mid table we,ll put up with him.......but the football is still shit !.........Same with Mourinho just on a much higher level Chelsea fans will put up with negative football while they win trophies but if they dont...........

 

Ultimately if a club doesnt reach the expectations of the fans/owners the manager will be under pressure......if the team loses playing horrible negative football that pressure naturally increases.

Edited April 16, 2014 by gnasher16

[NEWKID 27,685]

The one thing is Mourhino 90% of the time gets it right.

Yes he gets money to throw at it, but so have a lot of other managers and they still f**k it up, managers like him, are trusted with transfer kittys,

Look at the transfer fiasco at UTD at the beginning of the season, would that have happened with Mourinho as manager?

Look at Arsenal, would Mourinho still be chasing his first trophy in 7 years ( I know he wouldnt be there, but still).... he's a winner, he's a sulky, arrogant, whingey f****r... but hes a winner. those Chelsea player's loved playing for him, he instilled similar feelings as Ferguson in players IMO... respect for him but real solidarity to the cause, there's a lot of football played in your head....

Look at Liverpool now, Rodgers has got them so confident that they will play football accross the park, there a team now, he's in there head, not all managers can win the players full trust or faith in what they are telling them to do is right..... there's only handful like that really.

[Themoocher 231]

  On 16/04/2014 at 10:23, NEWKID said:

The one thing is Mourhino 90% of the time gets it right.

Yes he gets money to throw at it, but so have a lot of other managers and they still f**k it up, managers like him, are trusted with transfer kittys,

Look at the transfer fiasco at UTD at the beginning of the season, would that have happened with Mourinho as manager?

Look at Arsenal, would Mourinho still be chasing his first trophy in 7 years ( I know he wouldnt be there, but still).... he's a winner, he's a sulky, arrogant, whingey f****r... but hes a winner. those Chelsea player's loved playing for him, he instilled similar feelings as Ferguson in players IMO... respect for him but real solidarity to the cause, there's a lot of football played in your head....

Look at Liverpool now, Rodgers has got them so confident that they will play football accross the park, there a team now, he's in there head, not all managers can win the players full trust or faith in what they are telling them to do is right..... there's only handful like that really.

 

I must say new kid.

I know its early stages yet way early.

But I think that Rodgers is going to have alot of success.

Hes got the team playing well.

At the start of season I thought louis suarize and liverpool were one man band.

But fook me hes got the full team playing well.

Euro football next year spend bit money in summer on few players.

 

I reckon utd will need spend bout 200 mil in summer to compete with the top 4 next year.

[NEWKID 27,685]

  On 16/04/2014 at 11:15, Themoocher said:

 

  On 16/04/2014 at 10:23, NEWKID said:

The one thing is Mourhino 90% of the time gets it right.

Yes he gets money to throw at it, but so have a lot of other managers and they still f**k it up, managers like him, are trusted with transfer kittys,

Look at the transfer fiasco at UTD at the beginning of the season, would that have happened with Mourinho as manager?

Look at Arsenal, would Mourinho still be chasing his first trophy in 7 years ( I know he wouldnt be there, but still).... he's a winner, he's a sulky, arrogant, whingey f****r... but hes a winner. those Chelsea player's loved playing for him, he instilled similar feelings as Ferguson in players IMO... respect for him but real solidarity to the cause, there's a lot of football played in your head....

Look at Liverpool now, Rodgers has got them so confident that they will play football accross the park, there a team now, he's in there head, not all managers can win the players full trust or faith in what they are telling them to do is right..... there's only handful like that really.

 

I must say new kid.

I know its early stages yet way early.

But I think that Rodgers is going to have alot of success.

Hes got the team playing well.

At the start of season I thought louis suarize and liverpool were one man band.

But fook me hes got the full team playing well.

Euro football next year spend bit money in summer on few players.

 

I reckon utd will need spend bout 200 mil in summer to compete with the top 4 next year.

 

 

Yeah, he's done a really good job there, no doubt... considering they were calling for his head at one point last season (well in the media at least)

they play like you expect them to play, I wouldnt see him buying a player like Carrol ( no disrespect to the lad but he's not whta you think of a Liverpool type player) ut's all pace and real accurate passing, in fact they play a lot like Fergies teams, soak it up and hit on the breakl in numbers with loads of pace, great football to watch, and they believ they'll out score anyone, I love that.

 

Not sure about who or how much for UTD, there are some players there that need to come good, Smalling, Jones, Rafael (stop diving in FFS), big year for Janzaja...

I don't believe that top player wont want to be at UTD either, that's crap there still one of the real big clubs even though this season has been a disaster.

 

The big problem is, do they still trust Moyes? would you give him 200 million to spend?

I want to see him pull it round ( ever the optimist, and don't really like it when anyone is being kicked around, but thats just me)... the reality is, his first season has been a disaster from the minute they waited for ever to sign Fellaini then paid over the odds, on top of the whole sale clear out... he set himself for a fall with that one.... TBh that was a reason I wasn't keen on Mourinho for the job, I thought he would try and change what was already working very well... |I didn't think Moyes would, infact I thought he would lean on Fergie so much he'd be told to piss off by the old git lol......

[Themoocher 231]

Now I dont wanna start a fight with anyone lol.

 

But you look at the full utd team and its weak all over.

Need two decent centre defenders.

decent full back to replace evria.

Midfield well doesnt exsist, absoult shocking in the meiddle of park.

no pace on the wings.

I dont wanna upset anyone but I dont rate rooney as all out stricker.

He needs a world class player like ronaldo playing beside him so he dont look as bad. Although he is a work horse and will prob captain utd next year.

 

Although the goalie is not to bad lol

 

I honestly think they will need at least 200 mill to compete.

 

You look at chelsea liverpool city and even arsenal stregth and depth this season compared to utd.

all four of those clubs will be stregthning again in the summer.

[WILF 48,100]

  On 16/04/2014 at 10:23, NEWKID said:

The one thing is Mourhino 90% of the time gets it right.

Yes he gets money to throw at it, but so have a lot of other managers and they still f**k it up, managers like him, are trusted with transfer kittys,

Look at the transfer fiasco at UTD at the beginning of the season, would that have happened with Mourinho as manager?

Look at Arsenal, would Mourinho still be chasing his first trophy in 7 years ( I know he wouldnt be there, but still).... he's a winner, he's a sulky, arrogant, whingey f****r... but hes a winner. those Chelsea player's loved playing for him, he instilled similar feelings as Ferguson in players IMO... respect for him but real solidarity to the cause, there's a lot of football played in your head....

Look at Liverpool now, Rodgers has got them so confident that they will play football accross the park, there a team now, he's in there head, not all managers can win the players full trust or faith in what they are telling them to do is right..... there's only handful like that really.

Spot f***ing on mate !

[NEWKID 27,685]

  On 16/04/2014 at 11:47, Themoocher said:

Now I dont wanna start a fight with anyone lol.

 

But you look at the full utd team and its weak all over.

Need two decent centre defenders.

decent full back to replace evria.

Midfield well doesnt exsist, absoult shocking in the meiddle of park.

no pace on the wings.

I dont wanna upset anyone but I dont rate rooney as all out stricker.

He needs a world class player like ronaldo playing beside him so he dont look as bad. Although he is a work horse and will prob captain utd next year.

 

Although the goalie is not to bad lol

 

I honestly think they will need at least 200 mill to compete.

 

You look at chelsea liverpool city and even arsenal stregth and depth this season compared to utd.

all four of those clubs will be stregthning again in the summer.

No argument from me mate, the point I was making is everyone knows they are weak in areas, but there are a players in the club who should be standing up to it now ( jones, Smalling, etc).. I think janzaja has shown enough potential this year to be an exiting prospect...

Scholes hasn't been replaced ( impossible lol), and the centre of the park is weak, Fellainis been a flop so far.. Carricks tidy but doesn't penetrate... We haven't got a toure, or Gerrard... But if he has the faith to buy a strong midfielder, mata in front with Rooney and Rvp pushed right up, and still play 2 wingers, in the premier league they will be fine.....

The spine of the team is vital, centre backs, central mid and striker...

[Fud 26]

The bottom line is Man U need to spend £200 mill just to stay still with the big boys. While Man U spend that to build a strong team, the rest will spend to strengthen an already strong team. Will the £200 mill help them, course it will. It'll probably buy them a top 4 place even with moyes there but only just. To see the difference a manager makes you can only compare what ferguson and moyes have done with the same crop of players, the gulf is mind blowing. All the top 4 have far better managers than moyes, guys who have proved they can compete with fergie. Moyes can't even compete with fergie using fergies own team so how is he ever going to compete with the rest? It ain't going to happen no matter what he gets to spend. The fact Everton have had one of their best seasons without moyes at the helm and there best player is another example of how poor he is as a manager. It's rather embarrassing really. But he's on a long expensive contract so he won't walk and Man U aren't in the habit of panic sackings so it'll be mediocrecy for the foreseeable future

[Themoocher 231]

  On 17/04/2014 at 05:45, Fud said:

The bottom line is Man U need to spend £200 mill just to stay still with the big boys. While Man U spend that to build a strong team, the rest will spend to strengthen an already strong team. Will the £200 mill help them, course it will. It'll probably buy them a top 4 place even with moyes there but only just. To see the difference a manager makes you can only compare what ferguson and moyes have done with the same crop of players, the gulf is mind blowing. All the top 4 have far better managers than moyes, guys who have proved they can compete with fergie. Moyes can't even compete with fergie using fergies own team so how is he ever going to compete with the rest? It ain't going to happen no matter what he gets to spend. The fact Everton have had one of their best seasons without moyes at the helm and there best player is another example of how poor he is as a manager. It's rather embarrassing really. But he's on a long expensive contract so he won't walk and Man U aren't in the habit of panic sackings so it'll be mediocrecy for the foreseeable future

 

I agree FUD.

They are going need to spend some amount of wonga to get any where near the top 4 next year.

200 your taking 5 decent players and think thats what they need.

there is class players in the squad but they need replacing badly to old.

They need to rebuild the full team from back to front.

The young english guys, No offence will never make the mustard they aint got the quality.

You would prob get away with playing smalling, Ronney,Jones and one older lad if the rest of the team was class and under good managment, Fergie done it the year before.

 

I dont think Moyes has ever going to have it in him to win a championship with a average team.

[Fud 26]

Agree moucher. Myes won't get sacked next season, he'll finish in 4th at best which will buy him another season. That season with the added CL games just like all the other top clubs will see him struggle again like this season. I reckon he'll be there for another 2 seasons then he'll get the heave ho.