Busy

[Born Hunter 17,763]

Caprelous, I apreciate that there is more to stalking than being a safe shot, but that IS not and SHOULD not be the concern of the Home Office. The only concern of theirs currently is gun safety. You might see it as a good thing but it's the thin end of a thick wedge..... as soon as you accept that mandatory courses for stalking are necessary it sets a precedence for mandatory courses for all types of hunting.

 

By all means introduce a state run gun safety exam to different levels depending on firearm.

[STRANGER 948]

What a load of f*****g horse shit

Mandatory deer stalking courses, what next?

Edited April 11, 2014 by STRANGER

[hutchey 147]

Mandatory lurched or ferreting courses! Cough ahem

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Money is the only reason behind these courses ,nothing more nothing less.A quick fix to achieve something that others have spent years to work towards .I for one will NOT be sitting anything and i know many more the same .Been said before but it should never have been allowed in the first place.Proper f****d it for you boys up north .I do feel the doom mungering by Cap is heresay though ,something he would want implemented rather than whats coming .My FEO is adament its voluntary and will be for the foreseeable future .Its a quick fix for those who cant be arsed to serve the time in the field.level 2 witnesses are paid after all whereas a mentor is not .

What has never sat well with me is that a lad can be out in the field from scratch within a year on these courses ,sooner if hes minted whereas the likes of most i know have graduated from calibre to calibre learning along the way ,finally moving up to a deer calibre in a journey taking 10 years or more .I can honestly say hand on heart i would much rather spend time with a lad like this rather than a quick fixer feeling his way with a deer rifle FFS.

I know Cap has served the time but there are those that think they know it all having that wretched piece of paper .

[Caprelous 217]

Money is the only reason behind these courses ,nothing more nothing less.A quick fix to achieve something that others have spent years to work towards .I for one will NOT be sitting anything and i know many more the same .Been said before but it should never have been allowed in the first place.Proper f****d it for you boys up north l t.I do feel the doom mungering by Cap is heresay though ,something he would want implemented rather than whats coming .My FEO is adament its voluntary and will be for the foreseeable future .Its a quick fix for those who cant be arsed to serve the time in the field.level 2 witnesses are paid after all whereas a mentor is not .

What has never sat well with me is that a lad can be out in the field from scratch within a year on these courses ,sooner if hes minted whereas the likes of most i know have graduated from calibre to calibre learning along the way ,finally moving up to a deer calibre in a journey taking 10 years or more .I can honestly say hand on heart i would much rather spend time with a lad like this rather than a quick fixer feeling his way with a deer rifle FFS.

I know Cap has served the time but there are those that think they know it all having that wretched piece of paper .

First and foremost Foxdropper Some of what you say I have to agree with you especially it being money making, (Initially many years ago when it was instigated by the BDS it wasnt and it was designed and implemented to further the education on all species of wild deer found in the British isles along with giving the potential stalker a grounding on F.C laws and basic balistics. ) But the goal posts have moved somewhat and are continually being moved. Whether you think I am scaremongering or not I have seem and been at the brunt of these changes during my involvement in Deerstalking and wildlife control and its my firm belief along with others who are directly involved in the system that further changes will affect us all. Notwithstanding the need to have a condition of trained certificated deer dogs being one of the changes afoot . this will be a condition shortly that a deerstalker most have at least access to such an animal even if he dosent own one. The goal posts are being moved as we speak.

Yes I have come up the hard way and yes I have DSC1-DSC2 and National Woodland Stalkers certificate and Both Lantra certificates for Large and small game.

I agree it dosent make me a better stalker than the chap who hasnt got them but what it does do it gaurantees to some extent my stalking anywhere which those havent got the paperwork will struggle to get.I should add it also gives me the authority to over rule any safety sho oting implications set by the police in respect of safety as that decision is mine.

 

As regards DSC2 training and charges I accept that their are those stalkers out there that do charge for taking out candidates but we dont and the only charges we make to help lads get the accreditation when accompanied on their leases are fuel costs there and back. in other words our out of pocket expenses. This is carried out directly with my partner who is a regional assessor.

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If any one wishes for me to train them in preparation for DSC 2 again I will take them out on there own leases /land and again I expect my out of pocket fuel costs only to be met.

If someone wishes for me to take them out stalking on my controlled grounds they will be charged for my services and pay the going rate for the venison which all goes back into the syndication to meet running cost in maintenance in the wildlife scheme. in other words we are here to help lads get this paperwork and here to help lads learn . Both Wildlife Management and habitat control.

I should add older long standing stalkers resent and thrash their guts out rebelling against this paperwork and like yourself refuse to to do it and are not prepared to part with money. You can thrash as much as you like but in the end you will be the looser and be bereft of the opportunities enjoyed by those who have the sense to be part of the system. My advice is irrespective of it being a money making scheme which to some extent you may be right but you wont beat it or even come close. So grit your teeth and get on with it because if you dont your the only looser. Your Choice !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Cheers

Stu

Edited April 12, 2014 by Caprelous

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Still not buying it .So your saying my fc will be revoked if i dont do the dsc .Wishful thinking on your part mate having parted with money for what i get free .IF it goes that way there will many thousands of deer poached ,shot with fox legal calibres and i cant see them letting that happen.You carry on in your paper filled world and ill do what i do for free,the way it is here .As you are part of the scheme its in your interest to scaremonger as otherwise all the training has been in vain . You mention that the dsc gives you the right to over rule plod on safety which is no different to my open cert .Dsc may have been started with the best will but has degenerated into a farce from what ive seen ,overnight training that really isnt possible.

[Caprelous 217]

Still not buying it .So your saying my fc will be revoked if i dont do the dsc .Wishful thinking on your part mate having parted with money for what i get free .IF it goes that way there will many thousands of deer poached ,shot with fox legal calibres and i cant see them letting that happen.You carry on in your paper filled world and ill do what i do for free,the way it is here .As you are part of the scheme its in your interest to scaremonger as otherwise all the training has been in vain . You mention that the dsc gives you the right to over rule plod on safety which is no different to my open cert .Dsc may have been started with the best will but has degenerated into a farce from what ive seen ,overnight training that really isnt possible.

Looks like one place at least you wont be able to stalk then in the future when the the Wayne Acts applied Foxdropper. whether you wanted to or not.

and if that scaremongering of what I mention comes about looks like you will be doing plenty of poaching LOL P.S I am not part of the system as you imply just some soft c-nt who is trying to help lads into stalking with as little grief and expenses as possible, like I said its the older ones who have been in the game the longest that will loose out.

I know of top notch professional gillies and deerstalkers in Scotland who have dug their heels in over doing this tiny bit of paper who are now being given the option of either do it or never do deerstalking again . anyhow like I said its your choice and it looks like you have made in right or wrong the onus was yours no one elses.

But dont decry those that have because it was their choice as well. |ATB and I hope it all works out for you.

Stu

[Caprelous 217]

I'm with you on that FD as a few day's in the classroom can not make up for years in the field for practical experience, the classroom can only tell you what to look for and the way it should be done, and as you have FD been shooting one way or another for many a year and all for free.

The laughable part is I agree with all of what both you say in respect to experience but both of you are some time or other if you want to stalk wherever you like your going to need that piece of paper minimum.

Scotland out already where next?????

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Dont know where your at with scotland thing mate .Phoned 5 outfits this morning with a view to taking my boy for a stag this fall and not one mentioned paperwork ,one even saying it meant nothing when i pressed it..All asked what calibre i was using which was expected .To buy a lease maybe but not visiting so maybe you are out of your depth a bit in your knowledge OR there are plenty that dont care about paper ,your choice now maybe.One things for sure ,we wont roll over as easy as you softies

[danw 1,748]

Foxdropper I'm pretty sure if the basc and the bds decided to suggest to the government the Dsc become compulsory it will no mater how much people piss and moan and for sure I don't trust either of them not too make that suggestion.There are lots of "Old Guard" in the bds that would like stalking to be somewhat more elitist than it currently is.

[Caprelous 217]

Guidelines on whats happening from the BDS.

http://www.bds.org.uk/Competency_-_WANE_Scotland_Act_2011_-_how_it_may_affect_you

Edited April 12, 2014 by Caprelous

[Caprelous 217]

Dont know where your at with scotland thing mate .Phoned 5 outfits this morning with a view to taking my boy for a stag this fall and not one mentioned paperwork ,one even saying it meant nothing when i pressed it..All asked what calibre i was using which was expected .To buy a lease maybe but not visiting so maybe you are out of your depth a bit in your knowledge OR there are plenty that dont care about paper ,your choice now maybe.One things for sure ,we wont roll over as easy as you softies

I like being out of my depth mate read my post above.

All those at the BDS must be out of the depth with lack of information as well. LOL

[sussex 5,777]

My pennies worth ...Having stalked , shot for 40 years (I never started until I was twenty ) the thought that a 3day course can somehow qualify you to take a stalking lease is beyond belief ..I cant believe the FC would give precedence to someone with level one over a seasoned accomplished stalker with a proven history of stalking ..I have mentored several stalkers to open ticket (free of charge) , I manage the deer on various pieces of land , I am on call to the council & police to attend road traffic accidents (free of charge), am a guide on a deer park , take people out stalking etc etc ..where all of a sudden does my 40 year track record mean nothing ?....I have shot a lot of deer in Scotland as a guest to various friends , (99% hinds & does) , now all of a sudden I'm not welcome ! I find that strange ..? There is definitely an elitist element to this , pushed by the BDS (whom I have never trusted after an incident many years ago ) & BASC who again I've never had great deal of faith in , then throw money in the equation , as with the BDS ,my gut instinct is to rebel ..Problem is the pen pushers, paper shufflers & keyboard wizards have the whip hand ...eventually it will become the law as Cap has said ...Will it benefit the DEER ...probably not in the short term , maybe it will long term who knows ...the thought that a 3 day course can override a lifetimes passion & experience fills me with dread .Last thought ...the last person I took out stalking had his DSC1 ....he had never gralloched a deer ..

If I was starting stalking today would I take the test ...yes ..because that will be the only way to get into stalking ....

[danw 1,748]

Lets get this in perspective I have used chain saws since the age of 13 I was trained by my grandfather whom had 41 years experience as head forester, since a health and safety review this year I have had to take my chainsaw cert, despite using quads for more years than I care to count and covering over 8000miles a year on them now I must take a cert and a brush cutter cert and first aid and renew my counter balance cert and my telehandler cert expires next year and I have to do a manual handling course I bet thats not the end of it either do I want to do any of them well hell no but there it is.

[Rabbithunter 456]

This has went slightly off topic.