Added Bull/staff Blood

[pablo esc 1,598]

Lot of sense, and things that clicked well with your thoughts and realistic views on subject, good stuff, uru, glin, liked the bit on will Irving too, atb

[uru 341]

Lot of sense, and things that clicked well with your thoughts and realistic views on subject, good stuff, uru, glin, liked the bit on will Irving too, atb

Pablo

Thank you,but I didn't do anything other than ask the question,the guys you named,along with Liam and a lot of others,are the ones making this as interesting as it is.

We're getting firsthand views and knowledge on these bull breedings/crosses,from all over and different times,other than just chatting with folks in our personal areas,or reading in a book from one man's opinions.or at least that's my thinking,uru

[Glyn..... 5,208]

 

 

I don't know if this has been covered,and I'm not looking for arguing,just thoughts,answers,input,hopefully minus arguments.

 

Often we hear this dog or line,has/d bull blood added.

When I hear that,subconsciously,I always assumed in the USA,bull blood,meant Pit,in the UK,Staff.

And I know I could be very wrong on both counts,just curious.

And I have to stress,I'm not trying to cause anyone trouble,just making conversation.

 

In lines/dogs,where there is known bull blood,can anyone tell which it was added? What about bull terrier? I know of some crosses that amount to such ferocious little dogs,that they can often be a huge grief,even though they are fully capable of carrying out the task of working.

 

Myself I don't mind dogs having bull blood,but also enjoy dogs without it.

 

Thank you,uru

Honestly mate, this subject has been done to death! There will be several long and debated Threads on this Site about the merits and negatives.

 

 

Shamo,

 

I believe you are right, as long as there are people willing to muddy the waters then the Patterdale story will continue.

 

Sure what harm if the romantic story of the ancient (1970) Fell strains (smooth tight black coats with bully heads)

that never were known in the Patterdale area by the men that lived there persist.

 

That it is nearly impossible to see a photo of anyone before 1960 with these bully headed black smooth working dogs.

If they were as popular as some make out it should be easy to dig out a lot of evidence before 1960 with this type.

1950, 1940 etc....

 

I only ever saw one photo with a smooth dog that could be a terrier with an otterhound pack in the 30's.

 

We must not forget the even more historic (1980) chocolate strain (smooth tight coats with bully heads).

These are decended from very old water spaniel dogs.

 

ATB

P3D

 

the brown /choc's go way back further than the 80's most can be traced back to a bitch called Tig from the 60's her great grand sire i think from the late 40's was also brown a lot of brown terriers in the 40/50 were bred in Yorkshire and field spaniel did enter in to a few family's terrier

Edited April 15, 2014 by Glyn.....

[Stabs 3]

Not exactly a bully head but this is the earliest smooth black (?) that I have. My family came from Ambleside to County Durham after the First World War and always had terriers. The chap in the photo died in a pit accident in late 40's a few years after this was taken.

 

[pablo esc 1,598]

I, thanks to those too. I am no expert but did think that buck and breay crossed once to a old type of bull or nuttal used, [BANNED TEXT] gone, an old breed of small bull, Northumberland, which is descended probably to some others

. The way, people have crossed now in the past, it just hasn't worked and the terrier losing its workingaability

[AXUM 255]

At neil cooney, that would be jagd terrier.

[Glyn..... 5,208]

bought TCW just for this photo a black terrier , with Mr C.Breay ... i think it disproves they where simply a bull x

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dixiefried 269]

I would have the 2 in the middle...had a pair like that..Bell from the lakes..used to come up here and Hunt with that Type.with Old Evans..

 

@ Axum ,,Sure ,Tiny Tiger Knows of the Essex Jagds,being bred to Patts ..Round Wicklow ..don't Know how they would be doing now..early 90s'

 

Paisley from the Lakes ..as far as I'm aware Sent Dogs of this Type( 2 in middle ) TO Germany into the Jagd Program...they dis-countinued this Route ..to Hard for their means..

 

Big heads in Breays dogs ..wasn't there ,but I Go for BORDER X Sealyham...he had the ingredients to hand

How many Stafford Strains ,Have FELL BLOOD added to Tidy THEM !!!

Edited April 16, 2014 by dixiefried

[p3d 879]

Glyn,

 

That is not the type of terrier being discussed with an obvious Bull influence.

That is a wire /rough coated Fell terrier, same root stock as the Lakeland and Border.

 

These dogs are around today, there is no indication of bull in this terrier.

 

The post is about Bull influence in terrier lines (EBT, PIt, or Staff).

 

Not sure what this photo adds to the post? Breay was dead when the staff was added to make the Patterdale IMO.

 

You would have to show a photo of Breay or Buck with a terrier with bull influence to prove that they added it to the line.

Showing anyone with THAT TERRIER TYPE on the end of the lead shows that they had NOT (Yet).

[pablo esc 1,598]

[BANNED TEXT] kipper look like

[Hot Meat 3,109]

I'm sure there's a pic or two in plummets fell terrier book, and its some ole boy that bred terriers that buck and breay continued, at least one of the dogs shows bull in it, to me anyways, I'm dig book out and see

[Hot Meat 3,109]

Bradleys rip, couple of pics in book

[bryanm45 787]

Glyn,

 

That is not the type of terrier being discussed with an obvious Bull influence.

That is a wire /rough coated Fell terrier, same root stock as the Lakeland and Border.

 

These dogs are around today, there is no indication of bull in this terrier.

 

The post is about Bull influence in terrier lines (EBT, PIt, or Staff).

 

Not sure what this photo adds to the post? Breay was dead when the staff was added to make the Patterdale IMO.

 

You would have to show a photo of Breay or Buck with a terrier with bull influence to prove that they added it to the line.

Showing anyone with THAT TERRIER TYPE on the end of the lead shows that they had NOT (Yet).

Staff type head 01.jpg

That's my lad, he does have a touch of Bull in him.

[bryanm45 787]

Sorry pic didn't turn out.

[dixiefried 269]

Depends on TYPE of Blood if it would show up as OBVIOUS. I.M.O.

Put a Fly of Panama ...type into Fell,might not show ....? ,but Tudors Black Pat .. it surely Will ...both 40s' breeding ..

 

 

@ Bryann ,Seen a couple of pics of your Choc. On the Bull posts,but not on others ,he seems More Bully ..Have you Photo shop stretched him on the other Pics

Edited April 16, 2014 by dixiefried