jimbob78 8 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Anyone any experience of hunting with lurchers in Germany? Is it legal or did Hitler mess that one up too? Quote Link to post
lurcherman887 178 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Nein, es ist nicht legal Quote Link to post
jack68 628 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hare coursing with lurchers ( running dogs ) is band and yet Hitler band it.. Quote Link to post
foresterj 1,096 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Privacy and cookiesSubscribeRegisterLog in Telegraph.co.uk Tuesday 11 March 2014 | UK News feed HomeNewsWorldSportFinanceCommentCultureTravelLifeWomenFashionLuxuryTech DatingOffersJobs PoliticsInvestigationsObitsEducationEarthScienceDefenceHealthScotlandRoyalCelebritiesWeird HOME»NEWS»UK NEWS Thanks to Hitler, hunting with hounds is still verbotenThe Fuhrer, a vegetarian, was the pioneer of hunting bans. His draconian laws were announced in Germany on July 3, 1934, on the grounds that hunting with hounds was 'unsporting'. His odd legacy lives on, report David Harrison and Tony Paterson 12:01AM BST 22 Sep 2002 If Labour MPs ban hunting with hounds, they will follow the pioneering efforts of a leader of a very different political persuasion: Adolf Hitler. The dictator who sent millions of Jews to the gas chambers banned foxhunting in Nazi Germany because he considered the use of hounds to kill other animals "unsporting". Hitler's cabinet was told about the new animal protection laws at a meeting on July 3, 1934 - the same day that the Fuhrer reported on the ruthless killing of Stormtrooper "conspirators" in the "Night of the Long Knives", according to an official Nazi biography published four years later. Hitler was a vegetarian with a soft spot for animals, particularly his last dog, Blondi, which was with him in the Berlin bunker when he committed suicide in April 1945. The laws were introduced by Hermann Goering, Hitler's infamous Air Marshall and a passionate hunter who appointed himself Hunting Master of the Reich (Reichsjaegermeister) soon after the Nazis gained power in 1933. Goering kept bison and stag at his Carinhall ranch - named after his wife - 50 miles north of Berlin. The Nazi laws gave animals more protection than any other country in the world. Ian Kershaw, a professor of modern history at Sheffield University and the author of a biography of Hitler, said: "It does seem rather strange that they should be so concerned about foxes and other animals when you consider how they were treating humans." Related Articles Charles: Farmers are treated worse than blacks or gays 22 Sep 2002 Professor Kershaw said that there was "a curiously ethical side" to the Nazis reforms. "The Nazis wanted a clean kill and felt that it was wrong to cause unnecessary suffering to the animal being hunted," he said. "So the new laws banned all field sports that involved training and using animals to kill game and vermin. There was a belief that if you put an animal through unnecessary torture you were somehow injuring the feelings of the German nation." The official Nazi biography, which was written by Erich Gritzbach, says: "Goering is a fanatical friend of animals. He says: 'Whoever tortures animals violates the instincts of the German people.' The same love of animals which he demonstrates in all he has to do with the animal world also imbues the Reich hunting law of 1934. Indeed it gives this law its deep ethical meaning. In Germany hunting on horseback, chasing animals with a pack of hounds, is banned." The ban provoked howls of anger from the aristocracy which for centuries had hunted foxes, wild boar, hares and deer on horseback. Kaiser Wilhelm II (1859-1941), the grandson of Queen Victoria, was a keen huntsman who enjoyed hunting boar with a pack of hounds. The upper classes were powerless to stop the changes. Bernd Ergert, the director of Germany's Munich-based hunting museum, said: "The artistocrats were understandably furious, but they could do nothing about the ban given the totalitarian nature of the regime." The laws were passed and remain in force to this day. The hunting ban was part of a much grander plan to give every German hunter his own reserve or "shoot" if - the Nazis believed it was a question of when - Hitler's army achieved its ambition of conquering Europe and Russia. Only part of the dream was realised: in 1939 the ban was extended to cover Austria after Hitler's annexation of the country. Some pro-hunting groups claim that Mr Blair's proposal to ban foxhunting in Britain would be every bit as tyrannical as the Nazi decree. A spokesman for the Countryside Alliance said: "Hitler banned fox hunting partly because he wanted to attack the aristocracy's way of life and further his own ambitions. It would appear that Tony Blair's reasons for banning foxhunting are not dissimilar - a curious mixture of class envy, spite and a curious understanding of animal welfare." Before the Nazis came to power Germany's hunting laws varied from state to state. Goering decided that more order was needed and introduced sweeping legislative changes which were enforced throughout the Reich. Until Goering's Reich Hunting Law (Reichsjagdgesetz) of 1934, German hunters pursued deer, wild boar, hares and foxes on horseback. The foxes and hares were savaged to death by the hounds, while boar and deer were pursued by specially-trained dogs until they were exhausted and surrounded. They were then finished off with long-bladed knives driven into the animal's heart. Goering adopted a moral code governing hunting called Sporting Justice (Waidgerechtigkeit) that had long been established in Germany. The code stipulates that it is unsporting to use animals such as dogs to kill game and vermin. Karl-Heinz Lehmann, the former vice-president of Germany's 220,000-member association for the protection of hunting, said: "Goering gave Sporting Justice an almost religious importance and the laws still form the basis of today's hunting rules in reunified Germany." Since 1934, foxhunting in Germany has been carried out with shotguns, although terriers and dachshunds are used to drive out foxes when they go to ground. It is forbidden to hunt vixen when they are cubbing and the poisoning of foxes is also prohibited, even though foxes are one of the main carriers of rabies. Hunting deer and wild boar is done using beaters and dogs or the animals are shot from "hunting stands" set up all over farmland where game gathers. Bloodhounds are used to track down wounded game but not to kill. Goering's law still exerts a profound influence on other aspects of hunting in Germany today. No one is allowed to hunt without a licence, for example, and obtaining a licence is not easy: it involves attending more than 100 hours of lectures and practical tests and sitting a difficult three-hour written exam. Goering's country fashion sense has also stood the test of time. Many of Germany's 330,000 registered hunters still follow his style by sporting the green loden hunting garb and feathered hat that he wore as Reich Hunting Master. Novice hunters are encouraged to wear such clothes before attending their tests in order to impress the examiners. Much of Goering's law was also adopted in former Communist East Germany. The country's ousted leader, Erich Honecker, was a fanatical hunter who loved entertaining Eastern Bloc leaders by taking them on lengthy hunting excursions. However, the most controversial aspect of the Reichsjagdgesetz was an attempt to win over Germany's hunting fraternity to the Nazi drive for territorial expansion or Lebensraum. Goering instigated laws that were designed to afford them a privileged position in the new Reich. The idea was to give every hunter his own personal shoot after the Third Reich's glorious victory over Europe, according to Jurgen Muller-Hirschmann, the president of Germany's 1,100-member association of hunters which is campaigning against the law. He claims that Goering's laws have turned hunting into a pastime controlled by a privileged elite of hunters who hold the leases of the country's ,000-plus shoots. "Ordinary landowners don't get a look in. Everyone has to subscribe to the wishes of the hunt leaseholder. We think it is time to get rid of Goering's law." Mr Muller-Hirchmann's demands have so far been dismissed by the country's much larger Association for the Protection of Hunting, a spokesman for which said last week: "We tend to ignore this kind of thing." Share 79 Facebook 75 Twitter 4 Email LinkedIn 0 UK News News » In UK News Wellcome Image Awards Bob Crow in pictures Moorland after flood waters subside Extremely pampered pooches Northern Lights over UK Share 79 Facebook 75 Twitter 4 LinkedIn 0 More from The Telegraph Meet the schoolgirls who love to drop the F-bomb in class 06 Mar 2014 One punch death 'no big deal' says killer's mother 27 Feb 2014 WW1 German soldier recalls moment he bayoneted foe to death 07 Mar 2014 Fatboy Slim: 'I thought as long as we were upstairs, no one would die' 02 Mar 2014 The latest 'taboo' dinner party chat: 'We're only one pay cheque away… 28 Feb 2014 WW1 veteran describes being 'haunted' by pleadings of man he left… 07 Mar 2014 More from the web The Most Powerful Man in Fashion Tells You How to Get a Job The Skype Collaboration Project 10 Ways Men Flirt That Women Don't Notice Amerikanki.com Steph Jeavons takes off solo around the world on a Honda CRF250L… Dream Magazine Gillespie Issued Arrest Warrant Bleacher Report The bridge that kicked off a 500% property boom MoneyWeek 12 Most Annoying Things Travelers Do in Airports EscapeHere what's this? Ads By Google Top 5 Pet Insurances Compare and Save Money Today Find Top Insurance Offers in UK ! storescompared.com/Pet-Insurance Barbour Jacket Sale. Special Offers of March 2014! Up to 40% Off on Barbour Jacket. www.bestprices247.com de Bono Training Courses Improve Team Decision Making & Productivity. UK Training Company www.indigobusiness.co.uk Follow The Telegraph On Social Media » Promotions » News Most Viewed TODAYPAST WEEKPAST MONTH Military says last tracked plane hundreds of miles off courseFake-passport holders on flight MH370 were IranianBob Crow, leader of the RMT, diesOscar Pistorius murder trial: March 11 as it happenedLockerbie bombing 'was work of Iran, not Libya' says former spy Featured Advertising More from the web 10 Things You Likely Didn’t Know About Your Period (ActiveBeat) Horror Tackle Draws 28-Match Ban (Bleacher Report) MORE FROM TELEGRAPH.CO.UK SAFE DRIVING MZD Connect: future-proof technology from Mazda View PORTRAIT OF AN INVESTOR 'The fine art of investing without incurring high fees' View TISSOT: 6 NATIONS RUGBY Pick your Moment of the Match to win a Tissot watch View INDIAN CURRY RECIPE How to make a creamy curry with a kick View Back to top HOMENewsUK NewsPoliticsLong ReadsWikileaksJobs World NewsEuropeUSAChinaRoyal Family NewsCelebrity newsDating FinanceEducationDefenceHealthWeird NewsEditor's ChoiceFinancial Services PicturesVideoMattAlexCommentBlogsCrossword Contact UsPrivacy and CookiesAdvertisingFantasy FootballTicketsAnnouncementsReader Prints Follow UsAppsEpaperExpatPromotionsSubscriberSyndication © Copyright of Telegraph Media Group Limited 2014 Terms and Conditions Today's News Archive Style Book Weather Forecast Quote Link to post
jimbob78 8 Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Hare coursing with lurchers ( running dogs ) is band and yet Hitler band it.. How about rabbits? I know they use ferrets as pest control in Dusseldorf Parks. Quote Link to post
foresterj 1,096 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Some worrying paralells, a barking veggie that valued the lives of animals over human life, Brian May is the Furher! Quote Link to post
jimbob78 8 Posted March 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Privacy and cookiesSubscribeRegisterLog in Telegraph.co.uk Tuesday 11 March 2014 | UK News feed HomeNewsWorldSportFinanceCommentCultureTravelLifeWomenFashionLuxuryTech DatingOffersJobs PoliticsInvestigationsObitsEducationEarthScienceDefenceHealthScotlandRoyalCelebritiesWeird HOME»NEWS»UK NEWS Thanks to Hitler, hunting with hounds is still verbotenThe Fuhrer, a vegetarian, was the pioneer of hunting bans. His draconian laws were announced in Germany on July 3, 1934, on the grounds that hunting with hounds was 'unsporting'. His odd legacy lives on, report David Harrison and Tony Paterson 12:01AM BST 22 Sep 2002 If Labour MPs ban hunting with hounds, they will follow the pioneering efforts of a leader of a very different political persuasion: Adolf Hitler. The dictator who sent millions of Jews to the gas chambers banned foxhunting in Nazi Germany because he considered the use of hounds to kill other animals "unsporting". Hitler's cabinet was told about the new animal protection laws at a meeting on July 3, 1934 - the same day that the Fuhrer reported on the ruthless killing of Stormtrooper "conspirators" in the "Night of the Long Knives", according to an official Nazi biography published four years later. Hitler was a vegetarian with a soft spot for animals, particularly his last dog, Blondi, which was with him in the Berlin bunker when he committed suicide in April 1945. The laws were introduced by Hermann Goering, Hitler's infamous Air Marshall and a passionate hunter who appointed himself Hunting Master of the Reich (Reichsjaegermeister) soon after the Nazis gained power in 1933. Goering kept bison and stag at his Carinhall ranch - named after his wife - 50 miles north of Berlin. The Nazi laws gave animals more protection than any other country in the world. Ian Kershaw, a professor of modern history at Sheffield University and the author of a biography of Hitler, said: "It does seem rather strange that they should be so concerned about foxes and other animals when you consider how they were treating humans." Related Articles Charles: Farmers are treated worse than blacks or gays 22 Sep 2002 Professor Kershaw said that there was "a curiously ethical side" to the Nazis reforms. "The Nazis wanted a clean kill and felt that it was wrong to cause unnecessary suffering to the animal being hunted," he said. "So the new laws banned all field sports that involved training and using animals to kill game and vermin. There was a belief that if you put an animal through unnecessary torture you were somehow injuring the feelings of the German nation." The official Nazi biography, which was written by Erich Gritzbach, says: "Goering is a fanatical friend of animals. He says: 'Whoever tortures animals violates the instincts of the German people.' The same love of animals which he demonstrates in all he has to do with the animal world also imbues the Reich hunting law of 1934. Indeed it gives this law its deep ethical meaning. In Germany hunting on horseback, chasing animals with a pack of hounds, is banned." The ban provoked howls of anger from the aristocracy which for centuries had hunted foxes, wild boar, hares and deer on horseback. Kaiser Wilhelm II (1859-1941), the grandson of Queen Victoria, was a keen huntsman who enjoyed hunting boar with a pack of hounds. The upper classes were powerless to stop the changes. Bernd Ergert, the director of Germany's Munich-based hunting museum, said: "The artistocrats were understandably furious, but they could do nothing about the ban given the totalitarian nature of the regime." The laws were passed and remain in force to this day. The hunting ban was part of a much grander plan to give every German hunter his own reserve or "shoot" if - the Nazis believed it was a question of when - Hitler's army achieved its ambition of conquering Europe and Russia. Only part of the dream was realised: in 1939 the ban was extended to cover Austria after Hitler's annexation of the country. Some pro-hunting groups claim that Mr Blair's proposal to ban foxhunting in Britain would be every bit as tyrannical as the Nazi decree. A spokesman for the Countryside Alliance said: "Hitler banned fox hunting partly because he wanted to attack the aristocracy's way of life and further his own ambitions. It would appear that Tony Blair's reasons for banning foxhunting are not dissimilar - a curious mixture of class envy, spite and a curious understanding of animal welfare." Before the Nazis came to power Germany's hunting laws varied from state to state. Goering decided that more order was needed and introduced sweeping legislative changes which were enforced throughout the Reich. Until Goering's Reich Hunting Law (Reichsjagdgesetz) of 1934, German hunters pursued deer, wild boar, hares and foxes on horseback. The foxes and hares were savaged to death by the hounds, while boar and deer were pursued by specially-trained dogs until they were exhausted and surrounded. They were then finished off with long-bladed knives driven into the animal's heart. Goering adopted a moral code governing hunting called Sporting Justice (Waidgerechtigkeit) that had long been established in Germany. The code stipulates that it is unsporting to use animals such as dogs to kill game and vermin. Karl-Heinz Lehmann, the former vice-president of Germany's 220,000-member association for the protection of hunting, said: "Goering gave Sporting Justice an almost religious importance and the laws still form the basis of today's hunting rules in reunified Germany." Since 1934, foxhunting in Germany has been carried out with shotguns, although terriers and dachshunds are used to drive out foxes when they go to ground. It is forbidden to hunt vixen when they are cubbing and the poisoning of foxes is also prohibited, even though foxes are one of the main carriers of rabies. Hunting deer and wild boar is done using beaters and dogs or the animals are shot from "hunting stands" set up all over farmland where game gathers. Bloodhounds are used to track down wounded game but not to kill. Goering's law still exerts a profound influence on other aspects of hunting in Germany today. No one is allowed to hunt without a licence, for example, and obtaining a licence is not easy: it involves attending more than 100 hours of lectures and practical tests and sitting a difficult three-hour written exam. Goering's country fashion sense has also stood the test of time. Many of Germany's 330,000 registered hunters still follow his style by sporting the green loden hunting garb and feathered hat that he wore as Reich Hunting Master. Novice hunters are encouraged to wear such clothes before attending their tests in order to impress the examiners. Much of Goering's law was also adopted in former Communist East Germany. The country's ousted leader, Erich Honecker, was a fanatical hunter who loved entertaining Eastern Bloc leaders by taking them on lengthy hunting excursions. However, the most controversial aspect of the Reichsjagdgesetz was an attempt to win over Germany's hunting fraternity to the Nazi drive for territorial expansion or Lebensraum. Goering instigated laws that were designed to afford them a privileged position in the new Reich. The idea was to give every hunter his own personal shoot after the Third Reich's glorious victory over Europe, according to Jurgen Muller-Hirschmann, the president of Germany's 1,100-member association of hunters which is campaigning against the law. He claims that Goering's laws have turned hunting into a pastime controlled by a privileged elite of hunters who hold the leases of the country's ,000-plus shoots. "Ordinary landowners don't get a look in. Everyone has to subscribe to the wishes of the hunt leaseholder. We think it is time to get rid of Goering's law." Mr Muller-Hirchmann's demands have so far been dismissed by the country's much larger Association for the Protection of Hunting, a spokesman for which said last week: "We tend to ignore this kind of thing." Share 79 Facebook 75 Twitter 4 Email LinkedIn 0 UK News News » In UK News Wellcome Image Awards Bob Crow in pictures Moorland after flood waters subside Extremely pampered pooches Northern Lights over UK Share 79 Facebook 75 Twitter 4 LinkedIn 0 More from The Telegraph Meet the schoolgirls who love to drop the F-bomb in class 06 Mar 2014 One punch death 'no big deal' says killer's mother 27 Feb 2014 WW1 German soldier recalls moment he bayoneted foe to death 07 Mar 2014 Fatboy Slim: 'I thought as long as we were upstairs, no one would die' 02 Mar 2014 The latest 'taboo' dinner party chat: 'We're only one pay cheque away… 28 Feb 2014 WW1 veteran describes being 'haunted' by pleadings of man he left… 07 Mar 2014 More from the web The Most Powerful Man in Fashion Tells You How to Get a Job The Skype Collaboration Project 10 Ways Men Flirt That Women Don't Notice Amerikanki.com Steph Jeavons takes off solo around the world on a Honda CRF250L… Dream Magazine Gillespie Issued Arrest Warrant Bleacher Report The bridge that kicked off a 500% property boom MoneyWeek 12 Most Annoying Things Travelers Do in Airports EscapeHere what's this? Ads By Google Top 5 Pet Insurances Compare and Save Money Today Find Top Insurance Offers in UK ! storescompared.com/Pet-Insurance Barbour Jacket Sale. Special Offers of March 2014! Up to 40% Off on Barbour Jacket. www.bestprices247.com de Bono Training Courses Improve Team Decision Making & Productivity. UK Training Company www.indigobusiness.co.uk Follow The Telegraph On Social Media » Promotions » News Most Viewed TODAYPAST WEEKPAST MONTH Military says last tracked plane hundreds of miles off courseFake-passport holders on flight MH370 were IranianBob Crow, leader of the RMT, diesOscar Pistorius murder trial: March 11 as it happenedLockerbie bombing 'was work of Iran, not Libya' says former spy Featured Advertising More from the web 10 Things You Likely Didn’t Know About Your Period (ActiveBeat) Horror Tackle Draws 28-Match Ban (Bleacher Report) MORE FROM TELEGRAPH.CO.UK SAFE DRIVING MZD Connect: future-proof technology from Mazda View PORTRAIT OF AN INVESTOR 'The fine art of investing without incurring high fees' View TISSOT: 6 NATIONS RUGBY Pick your Moment of the Match to win a Tissot watch View INDIAN CURRY RECIPE How to make a creamy curry with a kick View Back to top HOMENewsUK NewsPoliticsLong ReadsWikileaksJobs World NewsEuropeUSAChinaRoyal Family NewsCelebrity newsDating FinanceEducationDefenceHealthWeird NewsEditor's ChoiceFinancial Services PicturesVideoMattAlexCommentBlogsCrossword Contact UsPrivacy and CookiesAdvertisingFantasy FootballTicketsAnnouncementsReader Prints Follow UsAppsEpaperExpatPromotionsSubscriberSyndication © Copyright of Telegraph Media Group Limited 2014 Terms and Conditions Today's News Archive Style Book Weather Forecast Never trust a Vegetarian 1 Quote Link to post
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