Countryfile Report On Halal And Kosha Meat

[walshie 2,804]

I think he meant the British hating filth who still want to live here socks.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

Personally I have more issue in which the animals are raised/confined than with the method of dispatch. I'd rather have a halal slaughtered animal that's had a fairly decent standard of living than a humanely stunned/shot/dogged animal that's never been out of a pen and lived it's life up to it's knees in it's own shit.

 

The only humane way, by definition, is not to kill it in the first place.

 

Slitting the throat of an animal is a pretty common method of kill across the world. Mechanised wholesale slaughter is a pretty new invention, by comparison. I don't have an issue with either. If you eat meat you've got that blood on your hands and it sure is tasty.

 

Distinguished gentlemen of the panel. Is it the act of slitting the throat that is the problem? Or is it the ritual that accompanies it?

[paulus 26]

Personally I have more issue in which the animals are raised/confined than with the method of dispatch. I'd rather have a halal slaughtered animal that's had a fairly decent standard of living than a humanely stunned/shot/dogged animal that's never been out of a pen and lived it's life up to it's knees in it's own shit.

 

The only humane way, by definition, is not to kill it in the first place.

 

Slitting the throat of an animal is a pretty common method of kill across the world. Mechanised wholesale slaughter is a pretty new invention, by comparison. I don't have an issue with either. If you eat meat you've got that blood on your hands and it sure is tasty.

 

Distinguished gentlemen of the panel. Is it the act of slitting the throat that is the problem? Or is it the ritual that accompanies it?

neither its a case of an accepted industry standard on a slaughter method that is considered to be humane in the UK, being adhered to by all abattoirs whether they be halal or not. don't forget not all halal is killed un stunned, this also goes for kosha, its an animal welfare issue and best practice should be enforced across the industry,

[Huan72 687]

I have two main issues with it. The first is as Paulus has suggested, there should be one rule across the board that works to a best practice. The second is that I personally find it abhorrent for an animals death to be made less humane due to someone's religious beliefs, not down to a circumstance of location or equipment but for the very simple reason of someone's religion. It has been stated on here that the reason these rules were created was all about food spoiling in hot countries and that is correct, why allow a religious belief to extend an animals suffering for no other reason than religious freedom. Any civilised country should allow freedom of religion but needs to limit the extremes of that freedom.

 

Orthodox religion is nothing new. I compare to religion to music and religious people to musicians. A musician who can read music and understands music can ad lib, play free jaz and dosen't need a written page to express themselves. They truly understand the science of music. Religion is similar in that if someone really understands their religion they realise that the written word is very old now and written in times long gone but the spirit of the religion can be current. The spirit of the religion is just as important as the written word and now to my point, Halal and Kosha is to stop meat spoiling in hot countries and was written down a long time ago but that was then and the world was different, is it really in the spirit of these religions to unneccassarily cause the suffering of any animal, I would like to think not.

[skycat 6,174]

I still say it comes down to how the animal is feeling in the moments before its death, rather than method or religion. I eralise that this,as an argument, could end up shooting hunters in the foot, for obviously a hunted animal is not feeling all calm and relaxed just before a dog whips it up, but my argument would be that wild animals know fear every day of their lives, are programmed to live in a state of heightened awareness, and in the case of rabbits, are quite likely to see their compadres snaffled by fox or whatever on a regular basis. Take the videos we've seen of lions killing zebras just a short distance from the rest of the herd. I would really love to know what is going on in the misty little brains of that herd as they see their cousin/brother being mangled: it invites speculation, but one thing's for sure, they don't think like we do, as in we, the 'civilised' world.

 

Do sheep feel and think in the same way as a zebra? They may, or they may not, but the big difference is that they can't run away from what is causing their fear. Ergo, if a domestic animal feels fear, that fear may be made much worse by the animal's fixed position, physically. Would you agree? Or can anyone pull my argument to pieces? Please feel free to do so: I need more clarification on this and am suffering from brain fog.

[skycat 6,174]

Sorry Huan, was writing my post so didn't see yours before I posted. Not trying to detract from yours in any way, merely a tangent. But to comment on what you said: humans are as governed by tradition, habit, sameness (as in feeling comfortable with what is accepted, safe, familiar) as a herd of animals. You hit the nail on the head when you said that there was once a very good reason for such practices. The fact that this reason no longer exists means nothing to those who feel that theirs is the only way to do things. Habit and custom are more effective tools than any weapons when controlling the masses.

[paulus 26]

I still say it comes down to how the animal is feeling in the moments before its death, rather than method or religion. I eralise that this,as an argument, could end up shooting hunters in the foot, for obviously a hunted animal is not feeling all calm and relaxed just before a dog whips it up, but my argument would be that wild animals know fear every day of their lives, are programmed to live in a state of heightened awareness, and in the case of rabbits, are quite likely to see their compadres snaffled by fox or whatever on a regular basis. Take the videos we've seen of lions killing zebras just a short distance from the rest of the herd. I would really love to know what is going on in the misty little brains of that herd as they see their cousin/brother being mangled: it invites speculation, but one thing's for sure, they don't think like we do, as in we, the 'civilised' world.

 

Do sheep feel and think in the same way as a zebra? They may, or they may not, but the big difference is that they can't run away from what is causing their fear. Ergo, if a domestic animal feels fear, that fear may be made much worse by the animal's fixed position, physically. Would you agree? Or can anyone pull my argument to pieces? Please feel free to do so: I need more clarification on this and am suffering from brain fog.

in a herd nature dictates that the young/old/sick and weak are usually targeted first, this may make the strong feel safer, we have turned this on its head and slaughter the ones who should be feeling safe, also i believe animals don't dwell on things that happen, rabbits will escape a stoats attack and then immediately go back to feeding as if nothing had happened, personally my thoughts however impractical they are in the real world are all animals should ideally be slaughtered on the farm that they were raised, but money and population size along with hygiene regulations make this now nearly impossible, unless its for self consumption, in a nut shell it more to do with what we can use to comfort our own conscience as much as it is about the suffering of the animal

[paulus 26]

I have two main issues with it. The first is as Paulus has suggested, there should be one rule across the board that works to a best practice. The second is that I personally find it abhorrent for an animals death to be made less humane due to someone's religious beliefs, not down to a circumstance of location or equipment but for the very simple reason of someone's religion. It has been stated on here that the reason these rules were created was all about food spoiling in hot countries and that is correct, why allow a religious belief to extend an animals suffering for no other reason than religious freedom. Any civilised country should allow freedom of religion but needs to limit the extremes of that freedom.

 

Orthodox religion is nothing new. I compare to religion to music and religious people to musicians. A musician who can read music and understands music can ad lib, play free jaz and dosen't need a written page to express themselves. They truly understand the science of music. Religion is similar in that if someone really understands their religion they realise that the written word is very old now and written in times long gone but the spirit of the religion can be current. The spirit of the religion is just as important as the written word and now to my point, Halal and Kosha is to stop meat spoiling in hot countries and was written down a long time ago but that was then and the world was different, is it really in the spirit of these religions to unneccassarily cause the suffering of any animal, I would like to think not.

if you expand that you can see where the word extremist was spawned from when applied in a religious sense, well sense and religion are not words i use in the same sentence very often

[Huan72 687]

No problem Skycat, I have spent many hours searching my soul about an animals level of consciousness. Lets be honest about slaughter houses, the animals must be absolutely terrorfied. I can only try and put myself in the situation, would I rather be hunted by a predator or would I rather be kept in pens and then put in a line with the smell of death around me. And lets not fool ourselves in thinking that animals are simpler than they are, especially mammals. They dream and isn't a dream, the mind processing the sub conscious mind and the sub conscious and the conscious are two sides of the same coin. I try to be as honest and true with myself as possible and I have worked with a lot of animals and I really do think that they understand more than we like to think. I for sure think that to live free and maybe be killed one day is preferable to a life of confinement and certain death but that's just me Some animals display emotional behaviours in a very human way, I think that as science progresses we will be very surprised in the things that are learnt and lets not forget, we are animals ourselves, homo sapiens, we talk but are none the less mammals

[Tiercel 6,986]

Is fear just a human word for a range of natural instincts? Do animals actually feel fear or is it a natural reaction to a set of circumstances for that spieces?

 

In the animal world you have solitory and social animals, sheep cattle pigs etc are social animals and tend to follow the crowd and any 'fear' tends to be en masse rather than solitory, as if the herd, flock has a collective brain, and all the efforts are to preserve the main body rather than an individual animal.

 

People do tend to think that animals have the same cognitive reactions to a situation as a human would, they don't, each animal has a set way of reacting to a threatening situation some flight, others herd together. I do not belive that animals have the ability to see consiquence in the same way humans have.

 

TC

[Lab 10,979]

Well I beg to differ. I don't think that any animal going to slaughter can tell that death awaits it. Yes they may seem uneasy....but bundled into a truck and taken to a new place, new smells with all different kinds of calls going on will do that too them. How would they know the smell of death....yes a human who has experienced such things would know this bit how would an animal realise this smell??

When you take a dog to the vet that majority of them do not like it....do they fear death, I doubt it. Do they have a fear of new strange smells, different surroundings...do they remember they felt pain the last time they visited....? maybe!!!

[baw 4,360]

What about Catholics eating fish on a Friday, does that still go on? What if fish stocks are low, would they stop this practice? All religions are based on control and out dated practices still practiced, if they stopped, the whole religious nonsense would unravel. Look at Africa, contraception, Catholics and aids. Look at priests shagging kids cos they have to live a life of celibacy. If we start trying to make sense of religious freaks it would fry our brains.

[walshie 2,804]

I'm with Lab on his last point. How could an animal fear something it knows nothing about? It might get nervous seeing its mates getting killed in front of it, but they surely can only understand things that have happened to them in the past, not concepts.

[baw 4,360]

Well I beg to differ. I don't think that any animal going to slaughter can tell that death awaits it. Yes they may seem uneasy....but bundled into a truck and taken to a new place, new smells with all different kinds of calls going on will do that too them. How would they know the smell of death....yes a human who has experienced such things would know this bit how would an animal realise this smell??

When you take a dog to the vet that majority of them do not like it....do they fear death, I doubt it. Do they have a fear of new strange smells, different surroundings...do they remember they felt pain the last time they visited....? maybe!!!

Animals can sense death mate. You go to an animal market, the animals act different to the ones in a slaughter house.

[TOMO 26,814]

What about Catholics eating fish on a Friday, does that still go on? What if fish stocks are low, would they stop this practice? All religions are based on control and out dated practices still practiced, if they stopped, the whole religious nonsense would unravel. Look at Africa, contraception, Catholics and aids. Look at priests shagging kids cos they have to live a life of celibacy. If we start trying to make sense of religious freaks it would fry our brains.

Not confined to Catholics mate,,,,church of England practice eating fish on Friday,,,I only know this cos my boy goes to a C of E school and they eat fish every Friday .....