Stud Dogs

[huntmad. 67]

Bang on foxdropper.

Why would anyone want to put there dog up at open stud when it should be getting put back over close relatives.

What if u pick a pup dog up by just taking a chance a it turns out to be a real good dog is it right in wat ur sayin that u shouldn't be able to stud that dog out because u can't find a close relative to that dog , I know there is so many views on this but to me it's a pointless argument everyone will just keep doin what their doing an there's nothin that can be done like me for example if I wanted to put my dog for stud I would regardless if I couldn't breed to relative aslongs the bitch is proven an got a few years under her I'd do it an as for the pedlers u know who they are so don't breed with them , that's just my opinion

[KING PUCK 14]

Sorted it Bryan thanks mate! King puck do you find that the bitches come better than the dogs in that line?

can't speak for line wedgey but in the last five or six years we have found that the biggest ratio of pups that turned out worker's have been bitches , so maybe your right Edited March 20, 2014 by KING PUCK

[lucky 578]

 

Bang on foxdropper.

Why would anyone want to put there dog up at open stud when it should be getting put back over close relatives.

What if u pick a pup dog up by just taking a chance a it turns out to be a real good dog is it right in wat ur sayin that u shouldn't be able to stud that dog out because u can't find a close relative to that dog , I know there is so many views on this but to me it's a pointless argument everyone will just keep doin what their doing an there's nothin that can be done like me for example if I wanted to put my dog for stud I would regardless if I couldn't breed to relative aslongs the bitch is proven an got a few years under her I'd do it an as for the pedlers u know who they are so don't breed with them , that's just my opinion

That is why it is so important to do your research when selecting a pup, if people spent a little time doing this instead of just buying the first pup advertised then they would no were a lot of related stuff was to use.

[jeemes 4,484]

Was Smithy not a dog who could throw good offspring to allsorts of bitches? How many dogs do you hear of that does? Surely a rarity... I'd say the fact the lines are still going/producing has more to do with the lads who made the right choices breeding wise, who know their own stock. It can't be coincidence that some of the best workers/producers are from lines that have been bred tight.

He would only throw like that if he was prepotent. In other words if the genes relating to work ability were all pure dominant DD. Which would have the effect of covering any weakness in the bitches make up ,but unless the offspring were mated back to the sire it could all come undone again if the next mating was an outcross to a dog that was not DD even though he may be a good worker himself. Prepotent dogs are rare unless they have been inbred.

[AXUM 255]

 

Was Smithy not a dog who could throw good offspring to allsorts of bitches? How many dogs do you hear of that does? Surely a rarity... I'd say the fact the lines are still going/producing has more to do with the lads who made the right choices breeding wise, who know their own stock. It can't be coincidence that some of the best workers/producers are from lines that have been bred tight.

He would only throw like that if he was prepotent. In other words if the genes relating to work ability were all pure dominant DD. Which would have the effect of covering any weakness in the bitches make up ,but unless the offspring were mated back to the sire it could all come undone again if the next mating was an outcross to a dog that was not DD even though he may be a good worker himself. Prepotent dogs are rare unless they have been inbred.

 

 

no one explained it so well.. finally got it

[Bryan 1,362]

 

Was Smithy not a dog who could throw good offspring to allsorts of bitches? How many dogs do you hear of that does? Surely a rarity... I'd say the fact the lines are still going/producing has more to do with the lads who made the right choices breeding wise, who know their own stock. It can't be coincidence that some of the best workers/producers are from lines that have been bred tight.

He would only throw like that if he was prepotent. In other words if the genes relating to work ability were all pure dominant DD. Which would have the effect of covering any weakness in the bitches make up ,but unless the offspring were mated back to the sire it could all come undone again if the next mating was an outcross to a dog that was not DD even though he may be a good worker himself. Prepotent dogs are rare unless they have been inbred.

 

 

Fantastic theory but Smithy was a complete outcross.

[Bryan 1,362]

Is it just me or does this dog look too scatter bred for THL to use at stud?

[marshman 7,757]

Is it just me or does this dog look too scatter bred for THL to use at stud?

photo.JPG

Er this feels like a trap ? so I'm going with no it doesn't feel to scatter bred lol.

[VOON 1,317]

Is it just me or does this dog look too scatter bred for THL to use at stud?

photo.JPG

Too scatterbred, but if you want to send one bred like that to me, send it on.

[huntmad. 67]

 

 

Bang on foxdropper.

Why would anyone want to put there dog up at open stud when it should be getting put back over close relatives.

What if u pick a pup dog up by just taking a chance a it turns out to be a real good dog is it right in wat ur sayin that u shouldn't be able to stud that dog out because u can't find a close relative to that dog , I know there is so many views on this but to me it's a pointless argument everyone will just keep doin what their doing an there's nothin that can be done like me for example if I wanted to put my dog for stud I would regardless if I couldn't breed to relative aslongs the bitch is proven an got a few years under her I'd do it an as for the pedlers u know who they are so don't breed with them , that's just my opinion

That is why it is so important to do your research when selecting a pup, if people spent a little time doing this instead of just buying the first pup advertised then they would no were a lot of related stuff was to use.

Honestly tho how many terrier folk out there got dogs from fantasist lines ? Not watered , true lines ? If the lines are that good an they are serious terrier folk then usually the litters split an they are all run on to see what works an the rest that dont make the grade are culled an if they did sell a pup or 2 then how long would the que be to get a pup if we all done the research , that's why people take chances an tbh the chance paid of for me an many others , i know what ur saying line bred is better but as iv stated not all of us got that opertunity ,

[Glyn..... 5,208]

Smithy a big dog, in the back ground of a lot of terriers, there where very few black terrier around when he was at stud

Edited March 20, 2014 by Glyn.....

[neil cooney 10,416]

But Glyn, although Smithy was a scatterbred terrier and he did sire many good ones his offspring did land in the hands of many good terriermen who then worked them hard, worked them right, bred them right and then refined the breeding.

This is why IMO Smithy left a legacy.

Also for the same reasons there's many a good line of terrier out there that's not "famous".

[jeemes 4,484]

 

 

Was Smithy not a dog who could throw good offspring to allsorts of bitches? How many dogs do you hear of that does? Surely a rarity... I'd say the fact the lines are still going/producing has more to do with the lads who made the right choices breeding wise, who know their own stock. It can't be coincidence that some of the best workers/producers are from lines that have been bred tight.

He would only throw like that if he was prepotent. In other words if the genes relating to work ability were all pure dominant DD. Which would have the effect of covering any weakness in the bitches make up ,but unless the offspring were mated back to the sire it could all come undone again if the next mating was an outcross to a dog that was not DD even though he may be a good worker himself. Prepotent dogs are rare unless they have been inbred.

 

 

Fantastic theory but Smithy was a complete outcross.

 

He could still have been prepotent. Im not saying he was.I dont want to get into a discussion about Smithy,It was the theory I was talking about,Prepotency.

[Glyn..... 5,208]

well Neil which ever version of Smithys breeding you wish to use he is Maybe a F1 if the Cowen/Nuttalls right nuttall blood at the time was mainly breay/buck blood others have said Smiths breeding also breay/buck blood, others say Brightmoore i doubt scatter-bred, i'd love to know as my dogs have a fair few lines going back to him, one thing for sure very few of the best workers out there don't carry a drop of Smithys blood

[Bosun11 537]

Interesting topic, good reading and good honest posts on the subject.

Whilst I have seen and dug to some good Smithy offspring, most of those were off bitches of 'similar' lineage and though IMO, looking back, putting Smithy to open stud probably helped some folk with a great starting baseline or improved stock, it really was all about the coin...

If Smithy, or a dog of his type, was about now should he be put to open stud?

Not a fecking chance...! Look at that photo Glyn put up, look at the age of it. We live in a different world now. No Pre-Loved or Pets for Homes, Done Deal or all the others back then, no huge Yank market (though Ken did help to form it!) no half million sudo-hunters all with a 'well-ard' dog off this line, that line and the other fecking line and no internet forums either....!!

Nope, the worlds moved on and open stud... For whatever the fee, would do more harm than good....