Where Are The Antis When This Was Going On??

[Born Hunter 17,783]

so you pretty much don't have an opinion of your own on the subject? Why bother posting as many posts as you have if you don't have an opinion? Why argue against people who do have an opinion on it?

 

 

If that's what you've managed to take from what I've written there's no hope for this conversation mate.

[Tiercel 6,986]

The two zoo's that offered to take the Giraffe were unsuitable for the animal, one had the same gene pool as the Giraffe and the other zoo does not have an ethical treatment of animals treaty, they will not sign a disclaimer that they would not sell the animal to a circus or to anyone with enough money to buy it.

 

I don't doubt that the animal was used for it's 18 months of life as an attraction, but we as humans use animals all the time. The fact that it was fed to the lions after is really incidental. It was not destroyed to be fed to them. We do not know why the animal was no PTS when born, speculation here, but there could have been a motive why it was not PTS and allowed to grow for 18 months, we just do not know.

 

TC

[baw 4,360]

 

 

so you pretty much don't have an opinion of your own on the subject? Why bother posting as many posts as you have if you don't have an opinion? Why argue against people who do have an opinion on it?

 

If that's what you've managed to take from what I've written there's no hope for this conversation mate.

you said you don't care either way so how would you take it? Imagine being in a debate team.... Subject, giraffe being killed..... Born hunter, are you on the for or against it being killed? BH I don't have a problem either way..... Ok, sit down. Baw, for or against? I'm against it.... BH jumps to his feet..... How can you be against it, it's herd management blah blah.... M-E-N-T-A-L

[Born Hunter 17,783]

LOL, I was arguing against killing it being ethically wrong. That doesn't mean as a result that keeping it alive would be ethically wrong........... LOL, talk about seeing life in black and white. haha

 

Is it wrong to shoot a dairy bull calf? NO. Is it wrong to keep it alive despite being uneconomical? No. Is it wrong imo to say that it shouldn't be killed? Yes. That's pretty much my view with this giraffe.

 

[lapin2008 1,587]

I've read all the comments and I pretty much agree with both sides of the argument. What I find laughable though is some are trying to say if you feel compassion to animals you must be an anti now that line of thought turned on its head is something the antis would come out with. All the hunting guys I know have compassion and respect to animals, it's the way we are. For instance, this morning I ran over a hare I actually found myself crying out NOOOO I thought to myself what a waste, that hare could have died providing entertainment for me and my dog, how barbaric does that sound but it isn't. I've the utmost respect for the hare, I think it's our best mammal. I'd rather see it given a natural chance against my dog than see its life ended under my tyre. Only hunting folk would understand that logic and maybe Gnasher The end result might be the same way, 1 dead hare but the means would have been fairer.

 

As for the giraffe, as I say, I can and agree with most of both sides of the argument. I don't agree with the comments it's like cattle etc getting slaughtered every day. I know it's a life at the end of the day but it isn't a normal life, just like the hare, its different. It's the whole zoo dilemma that's the problem. When zoos started out, they'd capture these exotic wild creatures like giraffes, bring them thousands of miles for us to see, we were attracted to them. They brought huge crowds, millions upon millions of people wanted to see them. It was then deemed cruel to take an animal that knew what freedom was and enclose it simply for us to look at and rightly so. So they started breeding them and it didn't seem as bad when you knew the animal didn't know anything different than its enclosure. People still flock in their millions each year to marvel at these majestic creatures. It seems to have gone full circle to the point where ones surplus to requirement can be used to feed other animals. This is where I have a dilemma. Yes it's management but we aren't talking about budgies or cattle, we are talking about a giraffe, something to be marveled. If there was any way of saving it, it should have been saved. If you'd said to the guys who brought the first giraffes over that one day we'd be killing these healthy animals to feed others they wouldn't have believed you, what's changed? But then again, I understand and accept the reasons it was done. As I said at the beginning, I've killed loads of hares in my time without a thought, it doesn't mean when I see one dying needlessly under my tyre, I don't feel it was a waste. Same applies to this giraffe, what a waste of a healthy animal.

 

I feel sorry for the guys on here who can't see the difference between a cow and a giraffe, it must be an unexciting life seeing everything as one. I had a girlfriend like that, just couldn't understand what the attraction to camping was. I'd say, look at the mountains, the loch, the trees, smell the pine..... She'd be like and? Beauty to her was a pair of shoes. So my sympathy guys, honest, my heart goes out to you. This isn't about an animal losing its life, this is about a giraffe, one of life's most awesome creatures getting killed needlessly. If that makes me sound like an animal lover, your f*****g right I am

 

Its not about not having compassion for the giraffe or any other animal for that matter. Most people that hunt will have compassion for all animals.

 

For me, its the disproportionate level of sentiment that people associate with certain species that (in my opinion) makes some people seem fairly anti-esque. Like proper antis do with putting badgers on pedestals etc

[baw 4,360]

LOL, I was arguing against killing it being ethically wrong. That doesn't mean as a result that keeping it alive would be ethically wrong........... LOL, talk about seeing life in black and white. haha

 

Is it wrong to shoot a dairy bull calf? NO. Is it wrong to keep it alive despite being uneconomical? No. Is it wrong imo to say that it shouldn't be killed? Yes. That's pretty much my view with this giraffe.

 

As I said earlier and you are the one brining dairy cattle into it...... If you can't see the difference between a giraffe and cattle, I feel sorry for you my friend

[Born Hunter 17,783]

 

LOL, I was arguing against killing it being ethically wrong. That doesn't mean as a result that keeping it alive would be ethically wrong........... LOL, talk about seeing life in black and white. haha

 

Is it wrong to shoot a dairy bull calf? NO. Is it wrong to keep it alive despite being uneconomical? No. Is it wrong imo to say that it shouldn't be killed? Yes. That's pretty much my view with this giraffe.

 

As I said earlier and you are the one brining dairy cattle into it...... If you can't see the difference between a giraffe and cattle, I feel sorry for you my friend

 

 

Isn't that a straw man argument? Trivialise the position of your opponent in a desperate attempt to make them appear wrong. LOL

 

I appreciate your sympathy, it warms my heart.

[beast 1,884]

well i really dont know where to start with this topic, there are so many angles and i guess at the end of the day it boils down to personal opinion,

 

but what really struck me was the openness that copenhagen approached the whole business with.

 

i'm sure zoos in GB cull surplus stock, but how often do we hear about it? the longleat lions only became public because it was leaked by an ex-employee apparently. and i reckon the reason its kept quiet is to avoid massive media hype (and lets face it, a lot of the uninformed public take their opinions from what they read) and attention from animal rights activists.

 

whether the decision to cull was right or wrong, i think that once the decision had been made the zoo management were at least brave enough to stick to their guns (no pun intended) and defy the animal rights lobby, and furthermore to begin the education process of children into the realities of life and death at an early age. yes they would have projected their opinion onto those kids, but i think standing up and saying what you believe is a better stance than keeping hush-hush and pretending its not happening and hoping not to get found out!

 

imagine if we hunters had a similar opportunity to educate children into the right (and wrong) ways of hunting, and potentially educate a generation so they can make up their own minds with full information, not just disney, beatrix potter and menopausal women's hysteria (thanks judi!)

 

for the record, and not having access to all the information, i would have done the same as the zoo management but as i say we only have limited information here

[baw 4,360]

 

 

I've read all the comments and I pretty much agree with both sides of the argument. What I find laughable though is some are trying to say if you feel compassion to animals you must be an anti now that line of thought turned on its head is something the antis would come out with. All the hunting guys I know have compassion and respect to animals, it's the way we are. For instance, this morning I ran over a hare I actually found myself crying out NOOOO I thought to myself what a waste, that hare could have died providing entertainment for me and my dog, how barbaric does that sound but it isn't. I've the utmost respect for the hare, I think it's our best mammal. I'd rather see it given a natural chance against my dog than see its life ended under my tyre. Only hunting folk would understand that logic and maybe Gnasher The end result might be the same way, 1 dead hare but the means would have been fairer.

 

As for the giraffe, as I say, I can and agree with most of both sides of the argument. I don't agree with the comments it's like cattle etc getting slaughtered every day. I know it's a life at the end of the day but it isn't a normal life, just like the hare, its different. It's the whole zoo dilemma that's the problem. When zoos started out, they'd capture these exotic wild creatures like giraffes, bring them thousands of miles for us to see, we were attracted to them. They brought huge crowds, millions upon millions of people wanted to see them. It was then deemed cruel to take an animal that knew what freedom was and enclose it simply for us to look at and rightly so. So they started breeding them and it didn't seem as bad when you knew the animal didn't know anything different than its enclosure. People still flock in their millions each year to marvel at these majestic creatures. It seems to have gone full circle to the point where ones surplus to requirement can be used to feed other animals. This is where I have a dilemma. Yes it's management but we aren't talking about budgies or cattle, we are talking about a giraffe, something to be marveled. If there was any way of saving it, it should have been saved. If you'd said to the guys who brought the first giraffes over that one day we'd be killing these healthy animals to feed others they wouldn't have believed you, what's changed? But then again, I understand and accept the reasons it was done. As I said at the beginning, I've killed loads of hares in my time without a thought, it doesn't mean when I see one dying needlessly under my tyre, I don't feel it was a waste. Same applies to this giraffe, what a waste of a healthy animal.

 

I feel sorry for the guys on here who can't see the difference between a cow and a giraffe, it must be an unexciting life seeing everything as one. I had a girlfriend like that, just couldn't understand what the attraction to camping was. I'd say, look at the mountains, the loch, the trees, smell the pine..... She'd be like and? Beauty to her was a pair of shoes. So my sympathy guys, honest, my heart goes out to you. This isn't about an animal losing its life, this is about a giraffe, one of life's most awesome creatures getting killed needlessly. If that makes me sound like an animal lover, your f*****g right I am

Its not about not having compassion for the giraffe or any other animal for that matter. Most people that hunt will have compassion for all animals.

 

For me, its the disproportionate level of sentiment that people associate with certain species that (in my opinion) makes some people seem fairly anti-esque. Like proper antis do with putting badgers on pedestals etc

Look, I get what your saying. But, some animals we pay money to do nothing more than look at. These animals are usually very unusual to us like a giraffe. If there was a reason other than it didn't suit that zoo, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But the reasons given for it being killed, don't sit comfortable with me. Some animals should be on a pedestal, I count a giraffe as one.

[baw 4,360]

 

 

 

LOL, I was arguing against killing it being ethically wrong. That doesn't mean as a result that keeping it alive would be ethically wrong........... LOL, talk about seeing life in black and white. haha

 

Is it wrong to shoot a dairy bull calf? NO. Is it wrong to keep it alive despite being uneconomical? No. Is it wrong imo to say that it shouldn't be killed? Yes. That's pretty much my view with this giraffe.

 

As I said earlier and you are the one brining dairy cattle into it...... If you can't see the difference between a giraffe and cattle, I feel sorry for you my friend

Isn't that a straw man argument? Trivialise the position of your opponent in a desperate attempt to make them appear wrong. LOL

 

I appreciate your sympathy, it warms my heart.

You said you took umbrage at me saying you can't see the difference from a cow and a giraffe, you don't get the same buzz as me..... Why keep comparing them then? as I said earlier M-E-N-T-A-L

[danw 1,748]

rather than a pedestal I would have thought a gambrel would have been easier

[Born Hunter 17,783]

You said you took umbrage at me saying you can't see the difference from a cow and a giraffe, you don't get the same buzz as me..... Why keep comparing them then? as I said earlier M-E-N-T-A-L

 

 

Haha, I said I do get the same sense of awe, I can just rationalise my decisions. ffs LOL.

 

And I'm perfectly aware of the differences between a cow and a bloody giraffe, LOL. The differences between the management of a domestic herd of each and how it would affect this though............?

 

FFS baw at times it's like talking to a kid.

[paulus 26]

 

 

I've read all the comments and I pretty much agree with both sides of the argument. What I find laughable though is some are trying to say if you feel compassion to animals you must be an anti now that line of thought turned on its head is something the antis would come out with. All the hunting guys I know have compassion and respect to animals, it's the way we are. For instance, this morning I ran over a hare I actually found myself crying out NOOOO I thought to myself what a waste, that hare could have died providing entertainment for me and my dog, how barbaric does that sound but it isn't. I've the utmost respect for the hare, I think it's our best mammal. I'd rather see it given a natural chance against my dog than see its life ended under my tyre. Only hunting folk would understand that logic and maybe Gnasher The end result might be the same way, 1 dead hare but the means would have been fairer.

 

As for the giraffe, as I say, I can and agree with most of both sides of the argument. I don't agree with the comments it's like cattle etc getting slaughtered every day. I know it's a life at the end of the day but it isn't a normal life, just like the hare, its different. It's the whole zoo dilemma that's the problem. When zoos started out, they'd capture these exotic wild creatures like giraffes, bring them thousands of miles for us to see, we were attracted to them. They brought huge crowds, millions upon millions of people wanted to see them. It was then deemed cruel to take an animal that knew what freedom was and enclose it simply for us to look at and rightly so. So they started breeding them and it didn't seem as bad when you knew the animal didn't know anything different than its enclosure. People still flock in their millions each year to marvel at these majestic creatures. It seems to have gone full circle to the point where ones surplus to requirement can be used to feed other animals. This is where I have a dilemma. Yes it's management but we aren't talking about budgies or cattle, we are talking about a giraffe, something to be marveled. If there was any way of saving it, it should have been saved. If you'd said to the guys who brought the first giraffes over that one day we'd be killing these healthy animals to feed others they wouldn't have believed you, what's changed? But then again, I understand and accept the reasons it was done. As I said at the beginning, I've killed loads of hares in my time without a thought, it doesn't mean when I see one dying needlessly under my tyre, I don't feel it was a waste. Same applies to this giraffe, what a waste of a healthy animal.

 

I feel sorry for the guys on here who can't see the difference between a cow and a giraffe, it must be an unexciting life seeing everything as one. I had a girlfriend like that, just couldn't understand what the attraction to camping was. I'd say, look at the mountains, the loch, the trees, smell the pine..... She'd be like and? Beauty to her was a pair of shoes. So my sympathy guys, honest, my heart goes out to you. This isn't about an animal losing its life, this is about a giraffe, one of life's most awesome creatures getting killed needlessly. If that makes me sound like an animal lover, your f*****g right I am

Its not about not having compassion for the giraffe or any other animal for that matter. Most people that hunt will have compassion for all animals.

 

For me, its the disproportionate level of sentiment that people associate with certain species that (in my opinion) makes some people seem fairly anti-esque. Like proper antis do with putting badgers on pedestals etc

Look, I get what your saying. But, some animals we pay money to do nothing more than look at. These animals are usually very unusual to us like a giraffe. If there was a reason other than it didn't suit that zoo, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But the reasons given for it being killed, don't sit comfortable with me. Some animals should be on a pedestal, I count a giraffe as one.

 

are giraffes not tall enough

[baw 4,360]

I love the way folk think if you love animals you must be an anti I thought antis were anti hunting

 

So you guys, what's your thoughts on dogs getting skinned alive in Russia? You find it ok? It's a business after all......

[baw 4,360]

 

You said you took umbrage at me saying you can't see the difference from a cow and a giraffe, you don't get the same buzz as me..... Why keep comparing them then? as I said earlier M-E-N-T-A-L

 

Haha, I said I do get the same sense of awe, I can just rationalise my decisions. ffs LOL.

 

And I'm perfectly aware of the differences between a cow and a bloody giraffe, LOL. The differences between the management of a domestic herd of each and how it would affect this though............?

 

FFS baw at times it's like talking to a kid.

I told you earlier I couldn't be arsed with the subject on a brighter note, I'm finished work in 20 mins