Plummers Help

[Britishbull24 131]

10 bitches is a fair few. But if he is producing the goods then why not. Like has been said I'd rather use a son of his now rather then him. Not that I'd use the blood personaly.

[tinytiger 828]

Ace has covered 10 bitchs in total two of witch being pinsleys bitchs and at six year old I can assure you more were turn down than covered. With breeding and health being a priority over £££

hes hardly in the league of s billy...remlap max ....leigion mask

under used i.m.o-why use some heap of dirt of a sire because some piece of paper says he has such and such breeding or inbreeding coefficient instead of a worker that throws a small,strong,well made type like peas in a pod

[Kate28 22]

10 bitches is a fair few. But if he is producing the goods then why not. has been said I'd rather use a son of his now rather then him. Not that I'd use the blood personaly.

 

10 bitchs might seem a lot but scattered up and down the country,in five years from now you will hardy be able to find a son of him. Look at the outcross all thoughs pups and Im not talking ten litters where are they all now.

Dont worry about ace blood or a son of him if your a digging boy youl need to eventually think further out the box than him the clocks ticking for true working plummers

[Britishbull24 131]

I am a "Digging Boy" lol, so I won't worry my little head about it.

Genuinely curious though why you think the working Plummer will die out?

[Kate28 22]

Didnt mean to be derogatory, im only stating what the dog has done, and bred

Working plummers dont have enough working blood some males make the grade but id say very few bitchs really do...not to a real high standard, maybe the odd dig here and there

[NEWSBOY 306]

I am a "Digging Boy" lol, so I won't worry my little head about it.

Genuinely curious though why you think the working Plummer will die out?

there aint many that can be dug to, never was.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

The clock has been ticking for over 10 yrs to my knowledge due to women and inexperienced men with no prior knowledge of terrierwork taking control of clubs without any dedicated plan on how to improve it or whats been needed for it to survive, most have simply been out of their depth, whilst they have struggled to out manoeuvre each other for control the breed has gone backwards, there have been some decent lads driven out of this breed simply because less experienced people in charge have felt threatened by the pressure of their knowledge, drive and popularity, its a shame because those of us that have been lucky enough to have had decent Plummers know what a good little dog they are, but these good ones are the exception not the rule, for it to survive this has to be turned around, WM

[keith j 1,088]

lot of folk will be cutting there noses of to spite there faces.only rat dogs?does that mean there not tested...dug too?does that mean there seasoned fox dogs or bin dug to once or twice in there lives.what im saying here is,is a dog that has bin dug to once or twice and done nowt else more worthy to be put over your bitch than lets say a dog that see's work three for times a week,bushing, ratting out in all weathers working for hours on end taking bite after bite of rattus yet still pushing its nose in to pull out another rat, be bit again for its troubles and not flinch.these little terriers that are ratted hard and regular take some punishment and anyone who works there dogs like this know so.so is that dog that has bin dug to once or twice more worthy not in my opinion,different if its a seasoned fox dog.lets face facts here lot of folk that used to dig to there dogs regular can't due to the hunting act ect but still work there little dogs hard on every thing else.too many folk claim to have dug to the odd fox and have done nowt else,there are other dogs[males] well worthy of the name working plummer witch haven't bin dug to for whatever reason but had there arses grafted off.as for bitches ive worked two and worked them hard and hold there own against any males and without trying to show any bias the bitch i own now probably steels the show week in week out on our hunts,and for the record a friend of mines bitch was dug too last week and held her ground and done the job till she was dug too[legally],but this bitch isn,t in the same league as mine hunting every thing else.all i'm saying is i'd sooner put a male over my bitch that was worked hard on a regular basis than a male that has bin dug to once or twice and done nowt else.apart from a few people on hear i tend to wonder if very many people actually work there dogs,i bet there few and far between.But to you folk that do happy hunting to you all keith j.

[wirral countryman 2,110]

Hello Keith, been a while matey since we spoke, hope your dogs are all doing well, you and Johnny know exactly the kind of poor treatment by clubs I'm on about, we all work our dogs within the constraints of work and family commitments but we are the lads that get to test them in the field where it matters, there are many ways to work our dogs and we all do what's comfortable for us, there is no pressure to work heavier quarry than you're happy doing, whilst I respect the lads that kill rats in large numbers it bears no comparison to a dog working day in day out on larger quarry, there has always been specialist lines or strains of all terrier breeds for rats, fox , etc and Plummers are no different in this, after over 40yrs of supposedly developing this breed by the various clubs they are no nearer to completion now than even 20yrs ago, we should of had in place many stud dogs for the type of quarry we wish to work that also have a proven healthy status and not being covered up because it suits a committee's agenda, more choice means a healthier gene pool for everyone, club sanctioned matings mean nothing if a breed stagnates because of lack of choice, WM

[Accip74 7,112]

Hello Keith, been a while matey since we spoke, hope your dogs are all doing well, you and Johnny know exactly the kind of poor treatment by clubs I'm on about, we all work our dogs within the constraints of work and family commitments but we are the lads that get to test them in the field where it matters, there are many ways to work our dogs and we all do what's comfortable for us, there is no pressure to work heavier quarry than you're happy doing, whilst I respect the lads that kill rats in large numbers it bears no comparison to a dog working day in day out on larger quarry, there has always been specialist lines or strains of all terrier breeds for rats, fox , etc and Plummers are no different in this, after over 40yrs of supposedly developing this breed by the various clubs they are no nearer to completion now than even 20yrs ago, we should of had in place many stud dogs for the type of quarry we wish to work that also have a proven healthy status and not being covered up because it suits a committee's agenda, more choice means a healthier gene pool for everyone, club sanctioned matings mean nothing if a breed stagnates because of lack of choice, WM

 

This is not a dig, but a genuine question............why is the fate of the working Plummer supposedly so tied in with committees & club protocol? Surely individuals who are genuine about producing working stock can act independently?

I know nothing of the situation with these dogs & I'm not a club type of person, so it seems an alien concept to me, that a working dogs future can be so governed by committees.......

[keith j 1,088]

Hello there wm yes it's bin a while hope you and your dogs are doing well. Your one of the few that dose Work your dogs and not a one track pony like a lot of folk.there's just so much bull shit in the Plummer terrier world.more folk should be out there working their little dogs to what ever they can and enjoy it. Lot of things have changed for a lot of folk due to this ridiculess ban. I myself have done plenty Fox work before the ban and know what's expected of a terrier?what I will say is I don't think any less of my dogs for not doing earth work as my dogs are worked week in week out and probably worked more than most other Plummers. It's not by choice a lot of folk don't dig to there dogs but circumstances. I love the work I do with my dogs and expect more than just an average dog to do it. And I think you know what I'm trying to say here so keep up the good work with your dogs and happy hunting my friend. Keith j

[HGN 150]

Hi Keith I am trying to get in touch with John can you pm me please

[wirral countryman 2,110]

 

I am a "Digging Boy" lol, so I won't worry my little head about it.

Genuinely curious though why you think the working Plummer will die out?

there aint many that can be dug to, never was.

 

That's nothing that couldn't be sorted in a generation, The wrong outcross was used with no thought of earthwork, WM

[wirral countryman 2,110]

 

Hello Keith, been a while matey since we spoke, hope your dogs are all doing well, you and Johnny know exactly the kind of poor treatment by clubs I'm on about, we all work our dogs within the constraints of work and family commitments but we are the lads that get to test them in the field where it matters, there are many ways to work our dogs and we all do what's comfortable for us, there is no pressure to work heavier quarry than you're happy doing, whilst I respect the lads that kill rats in large numbers it bears no comparison to a dog working day in day out on larger quarry, there has always been specialist lines or strains of all terrier breeds for rats, fox , etc and Plummers are no different in this, after over 40yrs of supposedly developing this breed by the various clubs they are no nearer to completion now than even 20yrs ago, we should of had in place many stud dogs for the type of quarry we wish to work that also have a proven healthy status and not being covered up because it suits a committee's agenda, more choice means a healthier gene pool for everyone, club sanctioned matings mean nothing if a breed stagnates because of lack of choice, WM

 

This is not a dig, but a genuine question............why is the fate of the working Plummer supposedly so tied in with committees & club protocol? Surely individuals who are genuine about producing working stock can act independently?

I know nothing of the situation with these dogs & I'm not a club type of person, so it seems an alien concept to me, that a working dogs future can be so governed by committees.......

 

Accip74,unlike most other breeds that are taken over by women and inexperienced people for the money, greed, power etc after K C registration, which normally sees the working dogs suffer by dogs being bred for coat patterns and shape, looks etc and not work, well the Plummer has been taken over beforehand by people who have bred 95% of the stock for shows, with little or no thought of work, a bit like putting the cart before the horse, most other working terrier breeds have made their name by sheer hard graft at least before being f*cked up, lads like myself that breed for work are in a minority and have no ties to any particular club so can pick and choose our stock from the odd decent worker that crops up whereas terriers from clubs need to get advice in order to get a mating sanctioned, good small working dogs are a rareity and so they are normally over used making for a small gene pool within each club, this has created health problems that does not bode well for the future, and all before they are even recognised as a K C breed, hope this helps, WM

[fatlad 250]

wirralman I've got to say you talk more sence about plumbers than anyone else ive read on these sites

I was looking to buy one a few years ago so joined some of the breed sites ,they were arguing about

anything one guy was even slated off a few people for selling his pups for too low a price cant remember

how much but it wasn't that cheap, good luck with your litters you've got planned its people like you that's

going to keep plumbers as true all-rounder's