Strains

[the_stig 6,614]

they used to breed

 

http://www.adbadog.com/p_pdetails.asp?fspid=105 ----------------------- http://www.adbadog.com/p_pdetails.asp?fspid=107 worth a read

they used to breed greyhounds and racehorses the same way back in the day. http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=165693

 

http://www.greyhound-data.com/d?i=391699

http://www.greyhound-data.com/d?i=920952

 

Why did they stop-i dont know-maybe they could afford to cull(only lords and kings etc keeping them in those days)and nowadays pups and colts are produced with sales in mind rather than performance.Maybe they didnt give a fiddlers fck about pedigree and just bred the best male that they owned or was local to them to their best female and hoped for the best and any pedigree patterns that can be seen are only a coincidence.

makes sense

[the_stig 6,614]

 

 

Just for the record and i cant say why, given the choice,id rather have a stud from a producing line over a mediocre bitch than a top grade bitch to a mediocre dog which says to me the reverse is true of what you are saying .Pretty sure the working qualities are something to do with male genes and looks are female .Somebody will no doubt put me straight but thats my take .

the looks come because if your inbreeding your using matched genes breeding to type .....

put your best to your best and hope for the best money is f*****g the terrier game

 

put your best to your best then would you consider inbreeding --- make a plan between you and your digging partner put a bit of thought into it and you`ll be sorted with your own good digging line for life if you`ve got good digging stock all ready your half way there ...

Edited February 9, 2014 by the_stig

[timmy k 591]

A hypothetical question here, if you needed a litter but only one dog which you new was either not as good as you hoped or not tested as much as you would like, but was from your blood line would you still use that dog knowing the correct blood line was their? Also when do you go for an outcrossing? When they seem to lack something or every 4 generations for example.

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

How many of you that are replying have a line thats doing it .I wager theres only few in the whole thread that actually know practice from theory .Books and paper are one thing seeing results time after time is another .I still maintain the dog is where to look to maintain a long producing line This is where my explanation of line breeding is explained keeping options open later. .Put it this way if a base stud dog serves three of your broods in a year then is put back over the offspring when they come of age and are tested whos genes are prevalent.Take that litter then put back to stud [the astute will realise the dogs getting on a bit now]still not 50/50 mind as hes still alive and being used .The offspring are all 50/50 but the sire is only half of theirs,I now use an outcross as a stud ,the results are the same,all offspring are 50/50 but he is half of theirs .Work qualities are now refererred to to match a bitch with a dog from what you have.The genes are now 3 way with qualities from all three showing .The option now is to go either way depending on what you aim to achieve ,bearing in mind some of both offspring will be with mates far and wide to hopefully re-enter the plan as and when . I dont subscribe to the theory that all good working bitches in a line are producers . I wont breed from a bitch twice that dosnt produce exactly what i want and sin of all sins i have been known to cull a bitch that wont produce even if shes working when pushed for kennel space.Again culling is the key .This may appear a long way round but you know have choices later in the line to return to one side or another. Results speak for themselves.

[stevie g 2005 125]

 

can mother son be used instead of father daughter to get a base? would it matter?

 

At the risk of getting a pasting from froggy whatsit ,the dogs linage is everything ,A bitch becomes one of your broods providing she is tested and of sound temperament.A dog that consistently throws workers is the foundation to all good lines .Starting out ,the advice of the breeder should be followed to the letter but as you move on,youll get to know what works over what .STARTING FROM SCRATCH WITH AN UNKNOWN IS POT LUCK AND IMO A WASTE OF RESOURCE AND TIME[YEARS ]

 

for someone thats not going to reply again you are doing some replying if he is getting on your nerves and doest have a clue dont reply to the thread but i get the feeling you like giving your bit makes you feel like your trying to come across as a smug git that knows it all when it comes to terriers like a few on hear up there own ass

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

A hypothetical question here, if you needed a litter but only one dog which you new was either not as good as you hoped or not tested as much as you would like, but was from your blood line would you still use that dog knowing the correct blood line was their? Also when do you go for an outcrossing? When they seem to lack something or every 4 generations for example.

 

 

Hypothetically this wont happen mate .out crossing is preferable before anything goes wrong

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

 

 

can mother son be used instead of father daughter to get a base? would it matter?

 

At the risk of getting a pasting from froggy whatsit ,the dogs linage is everything ,A bitch becomes one of your broods providing she is tested and of sound temperament.A dog that consistently throws workers is the foundation to all good lines .Starting out ,the advice of the breeder should be followed to the letter but as you move on,youll get to know what works over what .STARTING FROM SCRATCH WITH AN UNKNOWN IS POT LUCK AND IMO A WASTE OF RESOURCE AND TIME[YEARS ]

 

for someone thats not going to reply again you are doing some replying if he is getting on your nerves and doest have a clue dont reply to the thread but i get the feeling you like giving your bit makes you feel like your trying to come across as a smug git that knows it all when it comes to terriers like a few on hear up there own ass

 

 

 

 

Been called worse mate and frankly dont give a shit .Im at the point in my life where to give back seems more important than taking .If it steers a couple to breeding better dogs then thats good enough for me .Never could resist putting someone straight and now its your turn.

[jeemes 4,483]

How many of you that are replying have a line thats doing it .I wager theres only few in the whole thread that actually know practice from theory .Books and paper are one thing seeing results time after time is another .I still maintain the dog is where to look to maintain a long producing line This is where my explanation of line breeding is explained keeping options open later. .Put it this way if a base stud dog serves three of your broods in a year then is put back over the offspring when they come of age and are tested whos genes are prevalent.Take that litter then put back to stud [the astute will realise the dogs getting on a bit now]still not 50/50 mind as hes still alive and being used .The offspring are all 50/50 but the sire is only half of theirs,I now use an outcross as a stud ,the results are the same,all offspring are 50/50 but he is half of theirs .Work qualities are now refererred to to match a bitch with a dog from what you have.The genes are now 3 way with qualities from all three showing .The option now is to go either way depending on what you aim to achieve ,bearing in mind some of both offspring will be with mates far and wide to hopefully re-enter the plan as and when . I dont subscribe to the theory that all good working bitches in a line are producers . I wont breed from a bitch twice that dosnt produce exactly what i want and sin of all sins i have been known to cull a bitch that wont produce even if shes working when pushed for kennel space.Again culling is the key .This may appear a long way round but you know have choices later in the line to return to one side or another. Results speak for themselves.

Is the second stud totally unrelated? is it an inbred dog itself or doesnt that matter if its from a line that does what you like? Ive havnt a line thats doing it by the way just to be clear on that,theory only on my part im afraid,and am probably too old to do it but ill die trying.

[rob284 1,682]

genes from dog and bitch split into two parts and randomly come together again in the egg. So all genes are in two parts.One half from the dog and one from the bitch. Thats why some genes are not pure but express a certain trait ie courage or determination. The other half of that gene could be cowardice/lack of determination as a mental trait but it is not visible in the dog because the courage half is dominant. When the dog who displays working courage is bred to another dog with same there is no guarantee that the genes will part and come together in our favour .Thats why just putting worker to worker is no guarantee to produce a litter or even any workers in the litter. You can breed the same pair together time and again and get diffrent results. The practice of breeding in and in to dogs expressing the desired traits is to short cut the process of producing good stock by exposing the hidden part of the genes that are not what we want and leaving only the pure halves if you like to come together. That is very simplistic I know but if we can all grasp that because a dog looks or acts a certain way that is no indication of how the dog is built inside. Has long has the produce that is poor is killed off and only the good are kept the dominant genes will increase and the chances of getting dogs with the desired traits will increase. All traits are inhereted so its only what we personally desire.Same basic principles apply in selective breeding and inbreeding wether its floppy ears or fearlessness that we are trying to promote. thats roughly how i understand it anyway.

true and also, weve got to remember the traits say for determination for example could be controlled by thousands of genes. it is alot more complicated than many are explaining it to be.

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Not if you cull thats the key .You can only ever breed to one outcome .

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

 

How many of you that are replying have a line thats doing it .I wager theres only few in the whole thread that actually know practice from theory .Books and paper are one thing seeing results time after time is another .I still maintain the dog is where to look to maintain a long producing line This is where my explanation of line breeding is explained keeping options open later. .Put it this way if a base stud dog serves three of your broods in a year then is put back over the offspring when they come of age and are tested whos genes are prevalent.Take that litter then put back to stud [the astute will realise the dogs getting on a bit now]still not 50/50 mind as hes still alive and being used .The offspring are all 50/50 but the sire is only half of theirs,I now use an outcross as a stud ,the results are the same,all offspring are 50/50 but he is half of theirs .Work qualities are now refererred to to match a bitch with a dog from what you have.The genes are now 3 way with qualities from all three showing .The option now is to go either way depending on what you aim to achieve ,bearing in mind some of both offspring will be with mates far and wide to hopefully re-enter the plan as and when . I dont subscribe to the theory that all good working bitches in a line are producers . I wont breed from a bitch twice that dosnt produce exactly what i want and sin of all sins i have been known to cull a bitch that wont produce even if shes working when pushed for kennel space.Again culling is the key .This may appear a long way round but you know have choices later in the line to return to one side or another. Results speak for themselves.

Is the second stud totally unrelated? is it an inbred dog itself or doesnt that matter if its from a line that does what you like? Ive havnt a line thats doing it by the way just to be clear on that,theory only on my part im afraid,and am probably too old to do it but ill die trying.

 

 

 

 

totally unrelated in the first instance mate from a line thats working

[the_stig 6,614]

How many of you that are replying have a line thats doing it ..

not me i`m well out of the job these days

[donnyc 1,203]

that was a question for donnyc any info would be gratefull,,,,atb

Used no dog from yorkshire in my smooth line mate ..Did use one from yorkshire on a bitch from another line but never produced any bitches with any size .But then the dogs owner keeps mainly dogs

[jeemes 4,483]

 

 

How many of you that are replying have a line thats doing it .I wager theres only few in the whole thread that actually know practice from theory .Books and paper are one thing seeing results time after time is another .I still maintain the dog is where to look to maintain a long producing line This is where my explanation of line breeding is explained keeping options open later. .Put it this way if a base stud dog serves three of your broods in a year then is put back over the offspring when they come of age and are tested whos genes are prevalent.Take that litter then put back to stud [the astute will realise the dogs getting on a bit now]still not 50/50 mind as hes still alive and being used .The offspring are all 50/50 but the sire is only half of theirs,I now use an outcross as a stud ,the results are the same,all offspring are 50/50 but he is half of theirs .Work qualities are now refererred to to match a bitch with a dog from what you have.The genes are now 3 way with qualities from all three showing .The option now is to go either way depending on what you aim to achieve ,bearing in mind some of both offspring will be with mates far and wide to hopefully re-enter the plan as and when . I dont subscribe to the theory that all good working bitches in a line are producers . I wont breed from a bitch twice that dosnt produce exactly what i want and sin of all sins i have been known to cull a bitch that wont produce even if shes working when pushed for kennel space.Again culling is the key .This may appear a long way round but you know have choices later in the line to return to one side or another. Results speak for themselves.

Is the second stud totally unrelated? is it an inbred dog itself or doesnt that matter if its from a line that does what you like? Ive havnt a line thats doing it by the way just to be clear on that,theory only on my part im afraid,and am probably too old to do it but ill die trying.

 

 

 

 

totally unrelated in the first instance mate from a line thats working

 

Oh i see

[Cleanspade 3,322]

 

that was a question for donnyc any info would be gratefull,,,,atb

Used no dog from yorkshire in my smooth line mate ..Did use one from yorkshire on a bitch from another line but never produced any bitches with any size .But then the dogs owner keeps mainly dogs

 

probably no scientific reason for this but the best pups i produced came from strong bitches..always liked a strong doggy sort of bitch to breed from. ive no breeding plans at the moment. one bitch i would have liked something out of . but looks very unlikely now.