Strains

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

What youve described is the basic start to a LINE,mate but what about a backup if this goes tits up .Smart lads have another underlying plan to fall back on should your stud not be what it is on paper ,dosnt gell with bitch or gets killed .I fully understand the need for knowledge but a little can be harmful .Better to spend time with a lad thats doing it ,look at his pedigree and see what worked .

[compostman 98]

Dog back over he's daughter ok the first time ant it.seen this done pups were got strong pups for work.

[spindolero 1,111]

said before but a friend in racing pigeons told me of a guy that had birds that were from 27 generations of father/daughter. Cock birds like they were from a mold.

hens lost size eventually.

he would cull anyhting with slightest fault, that was the key.

[gasman 53]

Interesting thread. Brother sister mating bred from 2 unrelated dogs, so would that be inbreeding or line breeding?

[fredofrog 9]

What youve described is the basic start to a LINE,mate but what about a backup if this goes tits up .Smart lads have another underlying plan to fall back on should your stud not be what it is on paper ,dosnt gell with bitch or gets killed .I fully understand the need for knowledge but a little can be harmful .Better to spend time with a lad thats doing it ,look at his pedigree and see what worked .

listen my friend would you have the balls to speak to someone like you do face to face or do you just let insults flow of the computer, line breeding might be inbreeding with a plan to you but what most people think of that as grandfather to grandaughter or uncle to niece breeding where i am talking about intense inbreeding as in what they do with pit dogs, game fowl, the jersey cow , and as they intensely inbred the stock improves and yes as you say you do have to adapt if things start to go wrong but i cant talk to you anymore. you are the sort of person that thinks he is put on the earth to educate the world and cannot discuss a matter and has to resort to moronic shouting to get his point across. thanks f

[fredofrog 9]

Interesting thread. Brother sister mating bred from 2 unrelated dogs, so would that be inbreeding or line breeding?

Its just called inbreeding mate it might become a line of terriers further down the line but the practice of close family breeding is called inbreeding.

[fredofrog 9]

said before but a friend in racing pigeons told me of a guy that had birds that were from 27 generations of father/daughter. Cock birds like they were from a mold.

hens lost size eventually.

he would cull anyhting with slightest fault, that was the key.

yes bad traits will come up with the pups but the idea is to weed out the bad and breed the best obviously you will not now about mental traits until they are older and by doing inbreeding like this you can improve from the original stock. It is possible if you are a really good breeder to start with mediocre dogs and get great ones further down the line. ( i am not claiming that i have done this but some breeders have.)

Edited February 7, 2014 by fredofrog

[donnyc 1,203]

 

Inbreeding done too much will often leave you with very small bitches dogs seem to come right but a few lines different friends have the bitches come way too small ..Better if it was the other way round ..Its the bitches in decent lines that need to have substance..Few of the old timers if you went to there kennels you would see plenty of dogs but few bitches up to size

yeah i agree it is hard to keep an eye on size and confirmation aswell as mental attributes so you can wire in things like that. do you keep a strain of terrier donnyc?

 

got white dogs here exactly the same as i had 40+ years ago same size looks workstyles etc..Dont count though as there White LOL

[fredofrog 9]

 

 

Inbreeding done too much will often leave you with very small bitches dogs seem to come right but a few lines different friends have the bitches come way too small ..Better if it was the other way round ..Its the bitches in decent lines that need to have substance..Few of the old timers if you went to there kennels you would see plenty of dogs but few bitches up to size

yeah i agree it is hard to keep an eye on size and confirmation aswell as mental attributes so you can wire in things like that. do you keep a strain of terrier donnyc?

 

got white dogs here exactly the same as i had 40+ years ago same size looks workstyles etc..Dont count though as there White LOL

 

I dont keep black dogs either i was just using it as an example, Have u inbred them or have you crossbred them and have u found it easy to keep them going mate? If youve kept them going for 40 years you must be doing something right.

[marshman 7,757]

Right this is my fathers method he had a lot of success for many many years with gamefowl and dogs .This mightn't be to everybody's to everybody's style so don't crucify me if you think its wrong ! Here goes firstly he said , you must be honest as you'll only be lying to yourself . Also you must be prepared to cull heavily not tolerating any imperfection or fault . So as to breeding, a dog an bitch both from lines of workers then breed from that mating sire to daughter and son to dam. Then then a pup from the sire/daughter litter back to a grandparent/relative on the sire line and the pup from the son/dam mating back to a grandparent on the bitches line. So as you are almost creating two different lines almost if that makes sense lol. He also added that when you bred on the son/dam side he found you get more faults and they tended to come back smaller but were very game! On the sire/daughter side less faults kept size better and slower to start of which a few weren't as game. He again said the cull is important ! When my father done this was a long time ago and times were a lot different to how they are now. He doesn't know about recessive genes and so on and things might've moved on since he done it , but he knows what worked for him. Like I said don't crucify me as I thought I'd share an old timers knowledge !

[gasman 53]

 

 

Interesting thread. Brother sister mating bred from 2 unrelated dogs, so would that be inbreeding or line breeding?

Its just called inbreeding mate it might become a line of terriers further down the line but the practice of close family breeding is

Edited February 7, 2014 by gasman

[Accip74 7,112]

Right this is my fathers method he had a lot of success for many many years with gamefowl and dogs .This mightn't be to everybody's to everybody's style so don't crucify me if you think its wrong ! Here goes firstly he said , you must be honest as you'll only be lying to yourself . Also you must be prepared to cull heavily not tolerating any imperfection or fault . So as to breeding, a dog an bitch both from lines of workers then breed from that mating sire to daughter and son to dam. Then then a pup from the sire/daughter litter back to a grandparent/relative on the sire line and the pup from the son/dam mating back to a grandparent on the bitches line. So as you are almost creating two different lines almost if that makes sense lol. He also added that when you bred on the son/dam side he found you get more faults and they tended to come back smaller but were very game! On the sire/daughter side less faults kept size better and slower to start of which a few weren't as game. He again said the cull is important ! When my father done this was a long time ago and times were a lot different to how they are now. He doesn't know about recessive genes and so on and things might've moved on since he done it , but he knows what worked for him. Like I said don't crucify me as I thought I'd share an old timers knowledge !

 

Good point here, I just don't think culling is as prevalent in the dog game as people like to think..........we hear a lot of talk on here about how genuine terrier men gift their pups, this may be true, but I think the vast majority still sell on pups/unwanted stock..........I don't know a huge amount about line breeding, but I know a lot of inferior stock is still put out there by 'genuine terrier men'.

Surely culling must be as important as the choice of breeding for a consistent line?

[donnyc 1,203]

 

 

 

Inbreeding done too much will often leave you with very small bitches dogs seem to come right but a few lines different friends have the bitches come way too small ..Better if it was the other way round ..Its the bitches in decent lines that need to have substance..Few of the old timers if you went to there kennels you would see plenty of dogs but few bitches up to size

yeah i agree it is hard to keep an eye on size and confirmation aswell as mental attributes so you can wire in things like that. do you keep a strain of terrier donnyc?

 

got white dogs here exactly the same as i had 40+ years ago same size looks workstyles etc..Dont count though as there White LOL

 

I dont keep black dogs either i was just using it as an example, Have u inbred them or have you crossbred them and have u found it easy to keep them going mate? If youve kept them going for 40 years you must be doing something right.

They are inbred to a point ..I always give odd ones to friends local so I have them about me.I am reimporting an old dog to go back to his G daughters ..Mine are smooth coated and Ive never put the lakie type into the mix or anything else either .Just never see the sense in mixing it up..What goes in will always out and when you dont want it..Every few generations they throw a bully type but that doesnt bother me as the bully type studs never seem to throw that in their offspring..But will come again down the line..Always the males never the females though

[smasher 1,055]

Half brother to half sister an a bitch taken from this mating put back to the original dog/grand father is the route id take if looking to base a line on thee original dog,there after cousins,aunts x nephews etc.

[jeemes 4,453]

 

Right this is my fathers method he had a lot of success for many many years with gamefowl and dogs .This mightn't be to everybody's to everybody's style so don't crucify me if you think its wrong ! Here goes firstly he said , you must be honest as you'll only be lying to yourself . Also you must be prepared to cull heavily not tolerating any imperfection or fault . So as to breeding, a dog an bitch both from lines of workers then breed from that mating sire to daughter and son to dam. Then then a pup from the sire/daughter litter back to a grandparent/relative on the sire line and the pup from the son/dam mating back to a grandparent on the bitches line. So as you are almost creating two different lines almost if that makes sense lol. He also added that when you bred on the son/dam side he found you get more faults and they tended to come back smaller but were very game! On the sire/daughter side less faults kept size better and slower to start of which a few weren't as game. He again said the cull is important ! When my father done this was a long time ago and times were a lot different to how they are now. He doesn't know about recessive genes and so on and things might've moved on since he done it , but he knows what worked for him. Like I said don't crucify me as I thought I'd share an old timers knowledge !

 

Good point here, I just don't think culling is as prevalent in the dog game as people like to think..........we hear a lot of talk on here about how genuine terrier men gift their pups, this may be true, but I think the vast majority still sell on pups/unwanted stock..........I don't know a huge amount about line breeding, but I know a lot of inferior stock is still put out there by 'genuine terrier men'.

Surely culling must be as important as the choice of breeding for a consistent line?

 

spot on .If its faulty it mustnt be bred from. It should be culled or neutered.