ianm 2,594 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 They cannot deny you a c/fire if you have adequate permision i.e good reason, i would be telling them i wanted one. Don't be fobbed off, it's your right. Quote Link to post
Bunny Boiler 177 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 They cannot deny you a c/fire if you have adequate permision i.e good reason, i would be telling them i wanted one. Don't be fobbed off, it's your right.Adequate permo is only the start. You need adequate experience and understanding. Its all about proving yourself... 2 Quote Link to post
Born Hunter 17,751 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 They cannot deny you a c/fire if you have adequate permision i.e good reason, i would be telling them i wanted one. Don't be fobbed off, it's your right. My FLO said out of 700+ applications he's only granted one chap a cf first time round and that was because he had done his DSC1 and had 10'000 sapling trees to protect. Told me to put in for a variation for cf and open ticket in a year with as much relavent experience & references as possible to support it. Dunno what policy is exactly? I've always had the impression that it's a subjective matter which each force interprets different depending on local stats and experience. Quote Link to post
shropshire dan 467 Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I was told after a 1000 rimfire rounds or 6 months. I personally agree with it as to gain more experiance. I have over 6500 acres most of which is cleared for upto .303. I wanted a .223 for fox but have decided on a .243 for both fox and future Deer stalking Atb Dan Quote Link to post
Bunny Boiler 177 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I was told after a 1000 rimfire rounds or 6 months. I personally agree with it as to gain more experiance. I have over 6500 acres most of which is cleared for upto .303. I wanted a .223 for fox but have decided on a .243 for both fox and future Deer stalking Atb Dan A 1000 rounds?! I put that through mine just paper punching and rabbit shooting in about 2 months! I spoke to my FEO only 10 mins ago to clear up the whole debate about "foxes being vermin and can you shoot it with a. 22rf" and asked about putting in for cf calibres. Now, I know every force is different, but for mine, he said to show experience of shooting with a cf with someone previous, and show proof of land (plus proof of permo for deer if applying for those) and put in for a variation and you would get it regardless of length of time holding the cert or rounds that are put through it. Gun safety is all about knowledge and experience, not always numbers. His words were also "once a member of the cf club, you can apply for any cf variation" P.S for those wondering about the fox debate, you can hit with any calibre provided it says VERMIN or LAWFUL QUARRY in that calibres conditions. The risk you run using a rf over cf is being done under the animal cruelty act if you mis-place your shot and cause inhumane harm. You are well with in your rights to shoot them with a fire arms of any calibre though. For the record (as it has also been mentioned before), muntjac, whilst being classed as a pest species now, still come under the deer act, so even if your cert. says vermin, you still need to adhere to the deer act when it comes to calibres, with the excption of a. 22 cf which is apparently (found this out today) a high enough cal. for munty. Hope this helps you make an informed decision. BB 1 Quote Link to post
shropshire dan 467 Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Great info BB. My certificate says vermin control for .22lr and vermin and fox control for the HMR Atb Dan Quote Link to post
Bunny Boiler 177 Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 I would speak to your FEO in that situation. In my mind I would take that as .22 is not granted for fox, but under the law, you have Vermin, and that does allow it. As said, there is no legal calibre for foxes, only recommended. It's very vague, but its the humane part they push. Quote Link to post
shropshire dan 467 Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Yeah defo dosnt say fox .22lr. He did say on his visit as I had .22lr .17hmr and .22-250 he said not yet for the CF and that he prefers .223 for fox. And said he will grant the .17hmr for fox and vermin not the .22lr for fox. Don't get me wrong of old charlie pops up at 50yards ill certainly be tempted to take him given the conditions are ok Atb Dan Quote Link to post
Deker 3,478 Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) Yeah defo dosnt say fox .22lr. He did say on his visit as I had .22lr .17hmr and .22-250 he said not yet for the CF and that he prefers .223 for fox. And said he will grant the .17hmr for fox and vermin not the .22lr for fox. Don't get me wrong of old charlie pops up at 50yards ill certainly be tempted to take him given the conditions are ok Atb Dan http://www.thefreedictionary.com/vermin ver·min (vûr′mĭn) n. pl. vermin 1. Various small animals or insects, such as rats or cockroaches, that are destructive, annoying, or injurious to health. 2. Animals that prey on game, such as foxes or weasels. This Fox/Vermin debate has raged for as long as I can remember and has only been complicated/confused by many Firearms Depts. Originally ALL my rimfires contained the word fox as well as vermin, and some years back when my FAC came back from a variation much of that was gone and replaced by AOLQ, so that's easy now! Just the same any region would have a hard job suggestion Fox was not vermin, regardless of whether they had/had not, specifically listed fox elseware. In addition I am not aware of any prosecutions for shooting a fox under a vermin heading, has anyone else heard of such a thing? There is no legal minimum calibre/energy/bullet type/etc legislation about shooting foxes either. A bit of a non issue really, complicated by various regions. Edited February 7, 2014 by Deker Quote Link to post
Bunny Boiler 177 Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Yeah defo dosnt say fox .22lr. He did say on his visit as I had .22lr .17hmr and .22-250 he said not yet for the CF and that he prefers .223 for fox. And said he will grant the .17hmr for fox and vermin not the .22lr for fox. Don't get me wrong of old charlie pops up at 50yards ill certainly be tempted to take him given the conditions are ok Atb Dan http://www.thefreedictionary.com/vermin ver·min (vûr′mĭn) n. pl. vermin 1. Various small animals or insects, such as rats or cockroaches, that are destructive, annoying, or injurious to health. 2. Animals that prey on game, such as foxes or weasels. This Fox/Vermin debate has raged for as long as I can remember and has only been complicated/confused by many Firearms Depts. Originally ALL my rimfires contained the word fox as well as vermin, and some years back when my FAC came back from a variation much of that was gone and replaced by AOLQ, so that's easy now! Just the same any region would have a hard job suggestion Fox was not vermin, regardless of whether they had/had not, specifically listed fox elseware. In addition I am not aware of any prosecutions for shooting a fox under a vermin heading, has anyone else heard of such a thing? There is no legal minimum calibre/energy/bullet type/etc legislation about shooting foxes either. A bit of a non issue really, complicated by various regions. Agreed. My advice is that although you are unlikely to be prosecuted, i would avoid pissing off your FEO, because he will remember who you are, and he doesn't have to make life easy for you. Quote Link to post
ianm 2,594 Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 They cannot deny you a c/fire if you have adequate permision i.e good reason, i would be telling them i wanted one. Don't be fobbed off, it's your right.Adequate permo is only the start. You need adequate experience and understanding. Its all about proving yourself... They cannot deny you a c/fire if you have adequate permision i.e good reason, i would be telling them i wanted one. Don't be fobbed off, it's your right. My FLO said out of 700+ applications he's only granted one chap a cf first time round and that was because he had done his DSC1 and had 10'000 sapling trees to protect. Told me to put in for a variation for cf and open ticket in a year with as much relavent experience & references as possible to support it. Dunno what policy is exactly? I've always had the impression that it's a subjective matter which each force interprets different depending on local stats and experience. The problem is people applying for a fac don't know their rights or the law and are easily intimidated by feo's. At first grant i got everything i applied for .22, 17hmr,.223 and .243. He indicated that they would like a mentoring condition which i refused point blank, so that disapeared aswell. Read the firearms act and stand your ground, do not let them dictate to you. I had my ticket opened in less than 12 months and never had any bother with variations etc. Quote Link to post
shropshire dan 467 Posted February 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Cheers Ian. I will be putting in for my variation for .243 soon and also to have an open ticket Atb Dan Quote Link to post
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