danw 1,748 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 why is a gun treated any different to a knife a hammer, all can be used to kill or maim, but all are just inanimate objects without intent of use. its the situation not the weapon that's at fault. treat the illness in society that causes the intent and we can all sleep tight. how many nights do people really stay awake worrying about a break in? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nik_B 3,790 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 why is a gun treated any different to a knife a hammer, all can be used to kill or maim, but all are just inanimate objects without intent of use. its the situation not the weapon that's at fault. treat the illness in society that causes the intent and we can all sleep tight. how many nights do people really stay awake worrying about a break in? Well it's not so much that it's more the feeling that you can do something that makes people safe. Down the road from here was a guy who came home one night and there was two robbers in his house. The guy stabbed one of them and was then locked up for 2 days by the police before being released. If you ask me the police need to stop being so dramatic when faced by such an obvious situation like the couple in the Midlands that shot at an intruder, again they were locked up and in the end left the country. People just want to feel that they can protect themselves if needed without being persecuted by the cops. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danw 1,748 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 why is a gun treated any different to a knife a hammer, all can be used to kill or maim, but all are just inanimate objects without intent of use. its the situation not the weapon that's at fault. treat the illness in society that causes the intent and we can all sleep tight. how many nights do people really stay awake worrying about a break in? Well it's not so much that it's more the feeling that you can do something that makes people safe. Down the road from here was a guy who came home one night and there was two robbers in his house. The guy stabbed one of them and was then locked up for 2 days by the police before being released. If you ask me the police need to stop being so dramatic when faced by such an obvious situation like the couple in the Midlands that shot at an intruder, again they were locked up and in the end left the country. People just want to feel that they can protect themselves if needed without being persecuted by the cops. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19886504 Lord Judge, the Lord Chief Justice, said in his 2012 press conferencethat he thought the law was sound. He said: "I suspect if any of you have come home to find a burglar in your home, or have been in bed at night -- or indeed having an afternoon snooze and found a burglar in your home - you are not calmly detached. You are probably very cross and you are probably very frightened - a mixture of both -and your judgment of precisely what you should or should not do in the circumstances cannot, as another predecessor of mine, Lord Lane, said, you cannot measure it in a jeweller's scale. You have to face the reality of how people are and how people react to these situations - and justifiably react. "The householder is entitled to use reasonable force to get rid of the burglar and that in measuring whether the force is reasonable or not, you are not doing a paper exercise six months later. You have to put yourself in the position of the man or woman who has reacted to the presence of a burglar and has reacted with fury, with anxiety, with fear, and with all the various different emotions which will be generated, and who has no time for calm reflection Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nik_B 3,790 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yes I know but the fact they have this term reasonable force and then debate it so often while people are getting locked up is the problem. It needs to be clarified and realistically we need to be allowed to do almost anything for home defense. If someone is entering your house I don't see the issue with a homeowner killing them, they only get one chance and reasonable force might turn out to be not enough force 5 minutes later as they are bleeding to death on their own carpet. I don't think we need to encourage people to have guns though, some of us have them but they'd be useless in most cases unless you have your shotgun loaded under the bed every night. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paulus 26 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 why is a gun treated any different to a knife a hammer, all can be used to kill or maim, but all are just inanimate objects without intent of use. its the situation not the weapon that's at fault. treat the illness in society that causes the intent and we can all sleep tight. how many nights do people really stay awake worrying about a break in? the question should be why. not how many, why are there drug addicts,burglars and plain lunatics dictating our actions in society?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danw 1,748 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yes I know but the fact they have this term reasonable force and then debate it so often while people are getting locked up is the problem. It needs to be clarified and realistically we need to be allowed to do almost anything for home defense. If someone is entering your house I don't see the issue with a homeowner killing them, they only get one chance and reasonable force might turn out to be not enough force 5 minutes later as they are bleeding to death on their own carpet. I don't think we need to encourage people to have guns though, some of us have them but they'd be useless in most cases unless you have your shotgun loaded under the bed every night. How many people have been locked up for shooting or killing an intruder though? been arrested then released with no charge doesn't count and lets be clear even if the law expressly allowed the use of firearms or any lethal force for self defence at home in the event you will still get arrested until the facts are clear Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paulus 26 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yes I know but the fact they have this term reasonable force and then debate it so often while people are getting locked up is the problem. It needs to be clarified and realistically we need to be allowed to do almost anything for home defense. If someone is entering your house I don't see the issue with a homeowner killing them, they only get one chance and reasonable force might turn out to be not enough force 5 minutes later as they are bleeding to death on their own carpet. I don't think we need to encourage people to have guns though, some of us have them but they'd be useless in most cases unless you have your shotgun loaded under the bed every night. How many people have been locked up for shooting or killing an intruder though? been arrested then released with no charge doesn't count and lets be clear even if the law expressly allowed the use of firearms or any lethal force for self defence at home in the event you will still get arrested until the facts are clear tony martin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danw 1,748 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yes I know but the fact they have this term reasonable force and then debate it so often while people are getting locked up is the problem. It needs to be clarified and realistically we need to be allowed to do almost anything for home defense. If someone is entering your house I don't see the issue with a homeowner killing them, they only get one chance and reasonable force might turn out to be not enough force 5 minutes later as they are bleeding to death on their own carpet. I don't think we need to encourage people to have guns though, some of us have them but they'd be useless in most cases unless you have your shotgun loaded under the bed every night. How many people have been locked up for shooting or killing an intruder though? been arrested then released with no charge doesn't count and lets be clear even if the law expressly allowed the use of firearms or any lethal force for self defence at home in the event you will still get arrested until the facts are clear tony martin Tony martin had an illegally held firearm so was due jail time any way and he shot the intruder as they fled the house not in the house Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paulus 26 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yes I know but the fact they have this term reasonable force and then debate it so often while people are getting locked up is the problem. It needs to be clarified and realistically we need to be allowed to do almost anything for home defense. If someone is entering your house I don't see the issue with a homeowner killing them, they only get one chance and reasonable force might turn out to be not enough force 5 minutes later as they are bleeding to death on their own carpet. I don't think we need to encourage people to have guns though, some of us have them but they'd be useless in most cases unless you have your shotgun loaded under the bed every night. How many people have been locked up for shooting or killing an intruder though? been arrested then released with no charge doesn't count and lets be clear even if the law expressly allowed the use of firearms or any lethal force for self defence at home in the event you will still get arrested until the facts are clear tony martin Tony martin had an illegally held firearm so was due jail time any way and he shot the intruder as they fled the house not in the house after he had been intimidated and burgled on numerous occasions by those concerned. put yourself in his position and work out would you would have done Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tandors 888 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Don't the statistics of gun ownership correlate with less violent crime though. For example there's more gun crime in Chicago and Detroit where I understand it's illegal to carry a gun compared with other parts of USA where it is. Also Switzerland doesn't have a reputation for gun crime. Unfortunately it seems that certain groups of society(blacks), no matter which society that is in the world, are more predisposed to violent crime and they are the ones who create the vast majority of gun crimes statistics. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danw 1,748 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yes I know but the fact they have this term reasonable force and then debate it so often while people are getting locked up is the problem. It needs to be clarified and realistically we need to be allowed to do almost anything for home defense. If someone is entering your house I don't see the issue with a homeowner killing them, they only get one chance and reasonable force might turn out to be not enough force 5 minutes later as they are bleeding to death on their own carpet. I don't think we need to encourage people to have guns though, some of us have them but they'd be useless in most cases unless you have your shotgun loaded under the bed every night. How many people have been locked up for shooting or killing an intruder though? been arrested then released with no charge doesn't count and lets be clear even if the law expressly allowed the use of firearms or any lethal force for self defence at home in the event you will still get arrested until the facts are clear tony martin Tony martin had an illegally held firearm so was due jail time any way and he shot the intruder as they fled the house not in the house after he had been intimidated and burgled on numerous occasions by those concerned. put yourself in his position and work out would you would have done what I would have done is pretty irrelevant as I'm not in his situation, but if the jury felt his actions where acceptable then he wouldn't have done time Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nik_B 3,790 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yes I know but the fact they have this term reasonable force and then debate it so often while people are getting locked up is the problem. It needs to be clarified and realistically we need to be allowed to do almost anything for home defense. If someone is entering your house I don't see the issue with a homeowner killing them, they only get one chance and reasonable force might turn out to be not enough force 5 minutes later as they are bleeding to death on their own carpet. I don't think we need to encourage people to have guns though, some of us have them but they'd be useless in most cases unless you have your shotgun loaded under the bed every night. How many people have been locked up for shooting or killing an intruder though? been arrested then released with no charge doesn't count and lets be clear even if the law expressly allowed the use of firearms or any lethal force for self defence at home in the event you will still get arrested until the facts are clear It might not count to the stats but in the case of the guy round here who killed the burglar it was still two or three days where he was locked up away from his family at a time where he should have been there for them. Being locked up for even a day is traumatic for normal people. This guy then returned home and found wreaths laid at his own door and got death threats and had to have police protection. The law isn't working in our favour, and most times it would be the cops mopping up the victims blood and chalking them up to just another statistic. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paulus 26 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yes I know but the fact they have this term reasonable force and then debate it so often while people are getting locked up is the problem. It needs to be clarified and realistically we need to be allowed to do almost anything for home defense. If someone is entering your house I don't see the issue with a homeowner killing them, they only get one chance and reasonable force might turn out to be not enough force 5 minutes later as they are bleeding to death on their own carpet. I don't think we need to encourage people to have guns though, some of us have them but they'd be useless in most cases unless you have your shotgun loaded under the bed every night. How many people have been locked up for shooting or killing an intruder though? been arrested then released with no charge doesn't count and lets be clear even if the law expressly allowed the use of firearms or any lethal force for self defence at home in the event you will still get arrested until the facts are clear tony martin Tony martin had an illegally held firearm so was due jail time any way and he shot the intruder as they fled the house not in the house after he had been intimidated and burgled on numerous occasions by those concerned. put yourself in his position and work out would you would have done what I would have done is pretty irrelevant as I'm not in his situation, but if the jury felt his actions where acceptable then he wouldn't have done time the fact he had an illegal shot meant he was going to do a mandatory sentence, the fact he needed one to defend his property after he was failed by all other authorities is more shocking Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danw 1,748 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yes I know but the fact they have this term reasonable force and then debate it so often while people are getting locked up is the problem. It needs to be clarified and realistically we need to be allowed to do almost anything for home defense. If someone is entering your house I don't see the issue with a homeowner killing them, they only get one chance and reasonable force might turn out to be not enough force 5 minutes later as they are bleeding to death on their own carpet. I don't think we need to encourage people to have guns though, some of us have them but they'd be useless in most cases unless you have your shotgun loaded under the bed every night. How many people have been locked up for shooting or killing an intruder though? been arrested then released with no charge doesn't count and lets be clear even if the law expressly allowed the use of firearms or any lethal force for self defence at home in the event you will still get arrested until the facts are clear It might not count to the stats but in the case of the guy round here who killed the burglar it was still two or three days where he was locked up away from his family at a time where he should have been there for them. Being locked up for even a day is traumatic for normal people. This guy then returned home and found wreaths laid at his own door and got death threats and had to have police protection. The law isn't working in our favour, and most times it would be the cops mopping up the victims blood and chalking them up to just another statistic. Aye well lets just give him a slap on the back and a well done instead of verifying the facts of the incident the fall out from his actions where inevitable regardless of legality Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danw 1,748 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yes I know but the fact they have this term reasonable force and then debate it so often while people are getting locked up is the problem. It needs to be clarified and realistically we need to be allowed to do almost anything for home defense. If someone is entering your house I don't see the issue with a homeowner killing them, they only get one chance and reasonable force might turn out to be not enough force 5 minutes later as they are bleeding to death on their own carpet. I don't think we need to encourage people to have guns though, some of us have them but they'd be useless in most cases unless you have your shotgun loaded under the bed every night. How many people have been locked up for shooting or killing an intruder though? been arrested then released with no charge doesn't count and lets be clear even if the law expressly allowed the use of firearms or any lethal force for self defence at home in the event you will still get arrested until the facts are clear tony martin Tony martin had an illegally held firearm so was due jail time any way and he shot the intruder as they fled the house not in the house after he had been intimidated and burgled on numerous occasions by those concerned. put yourself in his position and work out would you would have done what I would have done is pretty irrelevant as I'm not in his situation, but if the jury felt his actions where acceptable then he wouldn't have done time the fact he had an illegal shot meant he was going to do a mandatory sentence, the fact he needed one to defend his property after he was failed by all other authorities is more shocking maybe so but he shot the lad as he ran away had he shot the lad in the house maybe the outcome would have been different Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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