Deker 3,478 Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Not reading at all Deker, my FEO actually advised me to do this, albeit this was 15 years ago. His advice at application was if granted and when I decide to purchase a gun, fit a cabinet and then call them for an approval inspection and under no circumstances was I to buy a gun without having the cabinet approved first. That is complete BS, and I don't care who told you, once your region has issued you with a SGC then you can go and buy what you want. He also told me they were more lenient on granting SGC's than FAC's. I can only go off what was said. Then again they did have a bad reputation at that time. If you buy and install a cabinet before your certificate is granted, you've lost the best part of £100-£250 if its refused (depending on cabinet size of course) Rubbish, gun cabinets hold their value remarkably well, and very few will even spend £250 on their first cabinet, I know, I sell the things!. Not all regions are the same, you should know that by now. In fact I'm sure you could read it on here. They are more lenient on granting SGC over FAC, in very simple terms you are entitled to a SGC unless the police can show good reason why not, for a FAC you can't have one unless you can demonstrate good reason to them. Either way, if you have the type of criminal background that excludes you, you get neither! Edited January 15, 2014 by Deker Link to post
Nightman 1 Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Not reading at all Deker, my FEO actually advised me to do this, albeit this was 15 years ago. His advice at application was if granted and when I decide to purchase a gun, fit a cabinet and then call them for an approval inspection and under no circumstances was I to buy a gun without having the cabinet approved first. That is complete BS, and I don't care who told you, once your region has issued you with a SGC then you can go and buy what you want. He also told me they were more lenient on granting SGC's than FAC's. I can only go off what was said. Then again they did have a bad reputation at that time. If you buy and install a cabinet before your certificate is granted, you've lost the best part of £100-£250 if its refused (depending on cabinet size of course) Rubbish, gun cabinets hold their value remarkably well. Not all regions are the same, you should know that by now. In fact I'm sure you could read it on here. They are more lenient on granting SGC over FAC, in simple terms you are entitled to a SGC unless the police can show good reason why not, for a FAC you can't have one unless you can show good reason to them. Either way, if you have a criminal background that excludes you, then you get neither! Are you saying if anyone has a criminal background that excludes them from obtaining a shotgun or firearms certificate ? Link to post
Deker 3,478 Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) They are more lenient on granting SGC over FAC, in simple terms you are entitled to a SGC unless the police can show good reason why not, for a FAC you can't have one unless you can show good reason to them. Either way, if you have a criminal background that excludes you, then you get neither!Are you saying if anyone has a criminal background that excludes them from obtaining a shotgun or firearms certificate ? No, I can see the way I have written that means you could interpret it that way, if you have a criminal background that excludes you, what I meant and possibly expressed badly is, if you have the type of criminal background that excludes you, ie some criminal convictions/prison terms mean you will find it difficult/impossible to get a SGC/FAC! I have a criminal background, I still have a current speeding endorsement, I still have 2 x FAC and a SGC! Edited post above to hopefully avoid any further confusion! Edited January 15, 2014 by Deker Link to post
SportingShooter 0 Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 A chap I knew had three FACs at one point, dodgiest chap you could be thirty years before he was granted them and grew up Link to post
Alsone 789 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Deker, I wish you wouldn't post within quotes as it really f*cks the board up. It wouldn't let me post a reply this time so I've had to separate the text out: Alsone: Not reading at all Deker, my FEO actually advised me to do this, albeit this was 15 years ago. His advice at application was if granted and when I decide to purchase a gun, fit a cabinet and then call them for an approval inspection and under no circumstances was I to buy a gun without having the cabinet approved first. Deker: That is complete BS, and I don't care who told you, once your region has issued you with a SGC then you can go and buy what you want. Reply: I agree you can buy once you are in possession of a certificate, but you still have to meet safekeeping requirements and if you're cabinet has not been approved, then technically you could fall foul of that. The usual practice if you don't fit a cabinet prior to grant is for the Police to come out and inspect the cabinet and then hand the cert over after the inspection - straight from the BASC via shooting.co.uk: http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/goshooting/starting/126232/Shotgun_licence__shotgun_certificate_application.html If your security was installed and the officer inspected it on his visit, the certificate can be posted to you. If your security has not been installed, your licence will be hand delivered by a Police Officer who will hand you your certificate once he is satisfied your security has been installed correctly. In my case, as I had no intention of getting a gun straight away, they had no choice but to issue the licence and require a security inspection BEFORE gun purchase. Alsone: He also told me they were more lenient on granting SGC's than FAC's. I can only go off what was said. Then again they did have a bad reputation at that time.If you buy and install a cabinet before your certificate is granted, you've lost the best part of £100-£250 if its refused (depending on cabinet size of course) Deker: Rubbish, gun cabinets hold their value remarkably well, and very few will even spend £250 on their first cabinet, I know, I sell the things!. Reply: But why risk losing anything at all? Better to wait until you have confirmation of the grant. Alsone: Not all regions are the same, you should know that by now. In fact I'm sure you Deker: They are more lenient on granting SGC over FAC, in very simple terms you are entitled to a SGC unless the police can show good reason why not, for a FAC you can't have one unless you can demonstrate good reason to them. Either way, if you have the type of criminal background that excludes you, you get neither! Again I don't disagree. But where a decision is marginal, they're more wary of firearms than shotguns. That's what the FEO told me, read it whatever way you want. Edited January 16, 2014 by Alsone Link to post
Deker 3,478 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 So, now you agree with me, once you get your certificate you can buy what you like, just as I said from the start, and totally contrary to your first comment! If you have the wrong criminal background then you don't get a SGC or a FAC, that is what we were talking about, there is nothing marginal about it, you don't get it. You tried to cloud the issue suggesting a SGC is easier to obtain than a FAC which is generally correct, but was not is dispute, what was in dispute was criminal background, and if you have the wrong background you don't get either. As for the Cabinet, I have already said they hold their value remarkably well, and if everyone made the FEO come out twice waiting times would go through the roof, that's why you get a cabinet. You read too much! Link to post
Alsone 789 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 So, now you agree with me, once you get your certificate you can buy what you like, just as I said from the start, and totally contrary to your first comment! You're twisting my words. I agree that once a certificate is granted you have a right to buy a gun subject to you meeting the safekeeping requirements. However, it is usually a condition of any grant (as opposed to a condition endorsed on the certificate), that the cabinet is 1st inspected and approved before weapons are purchased. Deker: If you have the wrong criminal background then you don't get a SGC or a FAC, that is what we were talking about, there is nothing marginal about it, you don't get it. You tried to cloud the issue suggesting a SGC is easier to obtain than a FAC which is generally correct, but was not is dispute, what was in dispute was criminal background, and if you have the wrong background you don't get either. Again that's not what the FEO said to me. He was quite clear, they more lenient with SGC's than FAC's and more lenient with rimfire than centrefire (he described rimfires as popguns). Now whether or not that has any basis in law is a different matter. As I said before, some of those who used to work in my area allegedly had a bad reputation. Deker: As for the Cabinet, I have already said they hold their value remarkably well, and if everyone made the FEO come out twice waiting times would go through the roof, that's why you get a cabinet. Yep and I've already said I personally wouldn't risk money installing a cabinet until I knew the cert was going to be granted, especially when as in the OP's position there are reason's why it might not be. It's not your job as applicant to reduce the Police's workload. It's your job to ensure you look after your own interests. Link to post
let'sshoot 11 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Gentlemen please....... Link to post
Deker 3,478 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Your original quote... "One more point, shouldn't need saying, but don't buy a gun if the cert is approved until the cabinet is approved otherwise you could find yourself in breach of safe keeping arrangements" Complete rubbish as you now concede, which part of that did I twist? For someone who spends their life reading you seem to be struggling with comprehension. How many times do you need telling, a SGC IS easier to get than a FAC and probably a FAC for a rimfire is easier than a FAC for a CF, that is NOT what we are talking about, we are talking potential refusal on the grounds of the wrong criminal background, if you fail you fail, they don't let you have either! Your FEO did not tell you they will be lenient with criminal records when applying for a SGC more than a FAC! Well, no doubt many shooters will be pleased you do not have a FAC if it is your intention to make them wait longer for their inspection/visit because you have no intention of buying a cabinet until you get your FAC. The vast majority of people are confident enough about their reason/need/background to buy a Cabinet and show willing and consideration to not only the FEO, but fellow shooters who are waiting in line behind them for a visit! Edited January 16, 2014 by Deker Link to post
hutchey 147 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Can we lock this thread off now mr moderator? Link to post
Alsone 789 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Your original quote... "One more point, shouldn't need saying, but don't buy a gun if the cert is approved until the cabinet is approved otherwise you could find yourself in breach of safe keeping arrangements" Complete rubbish as you now concede, which part of that did I twist? So if the cabinet is mounted in what the FEO considers an unsuitable position, you're not in breach of safe keeping requirements? You're the one talking rubbish here Deker. The police require a check of the cabinet for a reason - to make sure it complies with minimum entry standards and to make sure its mounted correctly and in a position that keeps it sufficiently out of sight of visitors. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And again twisted. I never said it was complete rubbish. I said you were able to buy a gun once your certificate is granted but most grants were made on condition that the a cabinet was 1st installed and inspected before any guns was purchased. For someone who spends their life reading you seem to be struggling with comprehension. How many times do you need telling, a SGC IS easier to get than a FAC and probably a FAC for a rimfire is easier than a FAC for a CF, that is NOT what we are talking about, we are talking potential refusal on the grounds of the wrong criminal background, if you fail you fail, they don't let you have either! Your FEO did not tell you they will be lenient with criminal records when applying for a SGC more than a FAC! I don't have any trouble with comprehension. I was quite clear. Irrespective of any basis in law, it's what the FEO said to me. Edited January 16, 2014 by Alsone Link to post
delswal 3,819 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Please lads I know you lot can help me and that's why I rely on this site as it's guaranteed Trying to apply for my shotgun licence as I have a lot of permission to shoot and the police down the local station are not much help and also I use an I-pad so some forms don't download but basically I need to get a copy of my criminal record and can't seem to get much help from the police also can anyone give me any tips on helping to get my licence,like where's the best place to put the safe e.t.c any info from you lot would be appreciated.many thanks first of of all it does not matter how much permission you have , as you don't need land to shoot over to get a shotgun certificate ……..secondly , on the the application form were it asks for previous convictions …….just write in .." unsure of previous convictions please refer to police records……..and before anybody on here tells you that you cannot do that ……..you can …..as thats what i did ……good luck Link to post
let'sshoot 11 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Can we lock this thread off now mr moderator? Yes please Link to post
SportingShooter 0 Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I think we can argue the matters of opinion and interpretation of law and firearms licensing policy via PM or some other method, I think the OP has what he needs from this thread Link to post
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