Religion/god Given Rights..

[baw 4,360]

How? just how would you show your gratitude?

Ohhhhhhh matron

[gnasher16 30,440]

 

I must be an ignoramus then. You say a man doesn't have to justify his religion or football team. Does that include having to justify he's been to a game or not to watch his team?now that's what I call being an ignoramus, not debating why a man believes in something.

 

Id say being an ignoramus should be the least of your worries Oddbaw..........

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwqejYbJ3cQ

[The Seeker 3,048]

 

 

Another thing I think about is, why is it that people who have experienced the dark side of life, seen a few things that most ordinary folk never will, why is it they maintain their belief or turn to a belief ?.........maybe it's only when you have shook hands with the devil that you realise his opposite must be out there in some form of another?

Out of all people they have the most right to say, "well, I have seen all this bad stuff and bad people so how can you say god exists" but they don't ?

Just an observation.

Very true and strange this Wilf. My mum kind of turned away from Church after our kid died at 14. Me I always feckin hated it but if anything in all seriousness I lean more towards Buddhism just for the peace and meditation side of things, I got into this through Thai boxing before our kid died and found myself questioning it when he did which was strange as I have no belief of an afterlife or any Harry Potter in the sky shite full stop. I think people in times of crisis either reach out for something even if it's not there or close down

 

If there is an afterlife I'm gonna tw@t Peter and burn the feckin gates down :laugh:

True story this, my mates wife's sister or in short, his sister in law lost her husband and was in a deep place. She started getting into this holy holy shit someone introduced her to, can't mind the name, friends of Jesus or some pish, basically a cult. Within a year she lost her caravan, car and house to these c**ts. Religion pray on people when they are at their lowest, easy to manipulate, weak

Not Christians mate they were just sick evil people who will get their comeuppance.

 

They don't belong to the same god I believe in I know that much.

[gnasher16 30,440]

 

 

 

Sort of, lol. The big bang was a singularity (like a black hole), a single point is space where the entire universe converged and expanded from. But before the big bang the universe as we know it did not exist, it was different the four fundamental forces of nature (Strong, Weak, Gravity, EM) were different.

 

Im well out of my depth here and its probably late in the game and im well behind ..........but is the first law of Astrophysics not " you cannot make something.....out of nothing ".....hence if nothing existed before the big bang where did time come from assuming with time you must have a start.

[charlie caller 3,654]

 

 

 

Another thing I think about is, why is it that people who have experienced the dark side of life, seen a few things that most ordinary folk never will, why is it they maintain their belief or turn to a belief ?.........maybe it's only when you have shook hands with the devil that you realise his opposite must be out there in some form of another?

Out of all people they have the most right to say, "well, I have seen all this bad stuff and bad people so how can you say god exists" but they don't ?

Just an observation.

Very true and strange this Wilf. My mum kind of turned away from Church after our kid died at 14. Me I always feckin hated it but if anything in all seriousness I lean more towards Buddhism just for the peace and meditation side of things, I got into this through Thai boxing before our kid died and found myself questioning it when he did which was strange as I have no belief of an afterlife or any Harry Potter in the sky shite full stop. I think people in times of crisis either reach out for something even if it's not there or close down

 

If there is an afterlife I'm gonna tw@t Peter and burn the feckin gates down :laugh:

True story this, my mates wife's sister or in short, his sister in law lost her husband and was in a deep place. She started getting into this holy holy shit someone introduced her to, can't mind the name, friends of Jesus or some pish, basically a cult. Within a year she lost her caravan, car and house to these c**ts. Religion pray on people when they are at their lowest, easy to manipulate, weak

Not Christians mate they were just sick evil people who will get their comeuppance.

 

They don't belong to the same god I believe in I know that much.

 

AAAh the threefold law of return eh seeker me old mucker,careful dont want you putting a pagan slant on things are you looking forward to saturday?

[The Seeker 3,048]

 

 

 

Hail woden

 

Hail Woden

Yeah cause paganism is much easier to accept with witches and wise men with special healing powers dancing round a set of stones bollock naked worshiping mother nature and other green men.

"hail Hogwarts"

I dont think you understand much about the paganism our ancestors followed.

.

Perhaps not but that's probably to do with every pagen I have ever met seems to be an expert in why my religious beliefs are riduculas but fail to tell me EXACTLY what the Pagen belief is. When i ask "so tell me what you believe?" in It all gets met with a big smoke screen of god or gods, patriarchhal vs matriarchal different opinions depending who I'm talking to and I have asked this of several pagens I know.

 

Just to set the record straight about the bible, the new testament is not a book written by a guy in the desert but is a combined series of books (gospels) from several different peoples perspectives of what they witnessed. Just like if ten people went to a football match and sat in different parts of the stadium we would each give our account of what we saw from our perspective, this is a very crude explanation of the new testament.

 

It's interesting to note historically the apostles after the crucifixion went to all parts of the world to spread the message of the Christianity and what they had witnessed, almost all of them were tortured to death to denounce Christianity and not one of them would deny what they had seen. You'd think if it was all a bit of a story they might have said "oh hold on a minute I was only joking"

 

I said it before and wil say it again each must find their own path to travel

[The Seeker 3,048]

 

 

 

 

Another thing I think about is, why is it that people who have experienced the dark side of life, seen a few things that most ordinary folk never will, why is it they maintain their belief or turn to a belief ?.........maybe it's only when you have shook hands with the devil that you realise his opposite must be out there in some form of another?

Out of all people they have the most right to say, "well, I have seen all this bad stuff and bad people so how can you say god exists" but they don't ?

Just an observation.

 

Very true and strange this Wilf. My mum kind of turned away from Church after our kid died at 14. Me I always feckin hated it but if anything in all seriousness I lean more towards Buddhism just for the peace and meditation side of things, I got into this through Thai boxing before our kid died and found myself questioning it when he did which was strange as I have no belief of an afterlife or any Harry Potter in the sky shite full stop. I think people in times of crisis either reach out for something even if it's not there or close down

 

If there is an afterlife I'm gonna tw@t Peter and burn the feckin gates down :laugh:

True story this, my mates wife's sister or in short, his sister in law lost her husband and was in a deep place. She started getting into this holy holy shit someone introduced her to, can't mind the name, friends of Jesus or some pish, basically a cult. Within a year she lost her caravan, car and house to these c**ts. Religion pray on people when they are at their lowest, easy to manipulate, weak

Not Christians mate they were just sick evil people who will get their comeuppance.

They don't belong to the same god I believe in I know that much.

AAAh the threefold law of return eh seeker me old mucker,careful dont want you putting a pagan slant on things are you looking forward to saturday?

I am indeed looking forward to Saturday mate

[WILF 47,542]

 

Another thing I think about is, why is it that people who have experienced the dark side of life, seen a few things that most ordinary folk never will, why is it they maintain their belief or turn to a belief ?.........maybe it's only when you have shook hands with the devil that you realise his opposite must be out there in some form of another?

Out of all people they have the most right to say, "well, I have seen all this bad stuff and bad people so how can you say god exists" but they don't ?

Just an observation.

I dunno mate, wait till I ask my gran ffs

You seem a bit out of your depth on this thread mate to be honest, you have not offered much up other than a bit of slagging, a few attempts at getting people at it and that's about it.

 

Again, just an observation

[gnasher16 30,440]

Thats what i like about your posts Seeker you break things down into simple to understand logic even dumbells like me can understand.....at risk of sounding all arse licky ive very much enjoyed reading your views

[Born Hunter 17,798]

 

 

 

 

Sort of, lol. The big bang was a singularity (like a black hole), a single point is space where the entire universe converged and expanded from. But before the big bang the universe as we know it did not exist, it was different the four fundamental forces of nature (Strong, Weak, Gravity, EM) were different.

 

Im well out of my depth here and its probably late in the game and im well behind ..........but is the first law of Astrophysics not " you cannot make something.....out of nothing ".....hence if nothing existed before the big bang where did time come from assuming with time you must have a start.

 

 

Conservation of energy is I believe the first law of thermodynamics. Bearing in mind that all mass is a form of energy [E=mc(squared)] so when I say energy I mean mass and energy; this means that in an enclosed system, in this case our universe, the amount of energy is finite cannot be added to or taken away from. Before the big bang, or at least at the very initial moment, time = 0s, all of the universe was there, there was no 'nothing', it was there just not as we see it now.

 

Now before the Big Bang I can't really say mate. There's views of multiverses and warped laws of Physics where maybe energy can be created and destroyed.

 

Like I said, a lot of theists like the big bang theory because it allows for a world with science and God.

[gnasher16 30,440]

 

 

 

 

 

Sort of, lol. The big bang was a singularity (like a black hole), a single point is space where the entire universe converged and expanded from. But before the big bang the universe as we know it did not exist, it was different the four fundamental forces of nature (Strong, Weak, Gravity, EM) were different.

 

Im well out of my depth here and its probably late in the game and im well behind ..........but is the first law of Astrophysics not " you cannot make something.....out of nothing ".....hence if nothing existed before the big bang where did time come from assuming with time you must have a start.

 

 

Conservation of energy is I believe the first law of thermodynamics. Bearing in mind that all mass is a form of energy [E=mc(squared)] so when I say energy I mean mass and energy; this means that in an enclosed system, in this case our universe, the amount of energy is finite cannot be added to or taken away from. Before the big bang, or at least at the very initial moment, time = 0s, all of the universe was there, there was no 'nothing', it was there just not as we see it now.

 

Now before the Big Bang I can't really say mate. There's views of multiverses and warped laws of Physics where maybe energy can be created and destroyed.

 

Like I said, a lot of theists like the big bang theory because it allows for a world with science and God.

 

 

Are you saying before the universe was there.....there was nothing.....or the universe was there all along just not as we see it now ?

 

Either way do you 100% rule out the possibility of creation ?

[Born Hunter 17,798]

Where did time come from..... f***ing hell Gnasher you're not asking simple questions! LOL

 

I hope my above post tries to answer that all the mass and energy of the universe was infact there at the very beginning, before it's difficult to say...

 

Time is by our definition a measure of the evolution of events in our universe. You could describe it using causality, every event must follow it's cause and that distinguishes the direction of time. So if you travelled back in time you would have reversed the direction of time and see events happen before their cause, windows smashing before the brick was thrown etc.

 

If there was nothing and I mean absolutely nothing before the Big Bang then yeah that is the start of time. But time is essentially a dimension of our universe like the 3 dimensions of space (up/down, left/right, forward/backward), at the time of the big bang our space was a singularity, zero volume so zero space, so possibly our time was too. Before then possibly another universe existed with another time frame...

 

This is getting too deep for me!

[Born Hunter 17,798]

 

Are you saying before the universe was there.....there was nothing.....or the universe was there all along just not as we see it now ?

 

Either way do you 100% rule out the possibility of creation ?

 

 

I'm saying I really don't know, our laws of physics state that in an enclosed system everything that is there must remain there and can't be added to. But at the time of the Big Bang some weird shit was going in with the laws of physics. Before the Big Bang we don't even know if time existed or if it was even the time line we are on now. Perhaps before the big bang was a different time line that ended before our began. We just don't know mate, there's lots of ideas.

 

I don't/can't 100% rule out the possibility of anything... But I'd put a ridiculously low probability on it personally.

[Born Hunter 17,798]

Right I've read back through what I've written.

 

What I'm trying to say is; people are asking that if there was nothing where did it all come from. What I have tried to explain poorly is that just because there was a Big Bang doesn't mean that all the energy of the universe didn't exist before. Also that if there indeed was 'nothing' that we don't understand how physics worked then so can't say how you get stuff from nothing. We don't even know if time started with the Big Bang or before...

 

Simply, we've hit the edge of human knowledge. Which in my opinion is where God always seems to sit in comfort.

[Drebz87 39]

Right I've read back through what I've written.

 

What I'm trying to say is; people are asking that if there was nothing where did it all come from. What I have tried to explain poorly is that just because there was a Big Bang doesn't mean that all the energy of the universe didn't exist before. Also that if there indeed was 'nothing' that we don't understand how physics worked then so can't say how you get stuff from nothing. We don't even know if time started with the Big Bang or before...

 

Simply, we've hit the edge of human knowledge. Which in my opinion is where God always seems to sit in comfort.

 

 

Or the theories that the universe has expanded and shrank multiple times? it could explain what happened at the time of the big bang? the only elemants at the time of the big bang would have been hydrogen and helium.