charlie caller 3,654 Posted January 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I agree a good post, and the fact that a range of different opinions are being voiced, proves at least one thing, we are all capable of thinking for ourselves (apart from the christians obviously) but seriously debate is good, long may it continue. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drebz87 39 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Its a good debate and if someone has faith but does not force it on others and does not use it to kill in the name of any sentient deity or spritual being then crack on if it brings you happiness. However as humans are well human they will always corrupt something that can control the masses to do there bidding. for me faith in something that i cannot see or be able to understand till death well it aint for me. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ideation 8,216 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 If you are interested in the origins of religion etc. The Golden Bough, by James Frazer (A Scottish Anthropologist). It was first written in 1890. There are a lot of books about it. Another decent read (if a little dense in writing style) is Ritual Theory, Ritual Practice, by Catherine Bell. They believe that some kind of religious or spiritual though was present right at the start of mans evolution, when someone had the ability to question or consider death. . . . They think that in general it progressed through - Animism - Totemism - Anthropomorphism - Polytheism - Monotheism - (Or something like that) Organised religion is a very different thing. That's just a group of clever / sly folk, realising that they could use all of this belief stuff to stop folk asking questions, excuse persecution and wars and generally control folk, and keep them down. Bad stuff indeed! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Seeker 3,048 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Dreb87 believe me it is not my intention to try convince anyone of anything however this is a question always thrown at me "faith in something I cannot see or be able to understand till death ain't for me" I thought about this myself and decided that I know of other things that exist such as love and hate, I can't see or prove they exist but I know that they do. That's the same for me and faith if that makes sense? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paulus 26 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Dreb87 believe me it is not my intention to try convince anyone of anything however this is a question always thrown at me "faith in something I cannot see or be able to understand till death ain't for me" I thought about this myself and decided that I know of other things that exist such as love and hate, I can't see or prove they exist but I know that they do. That's the same for me and faith if that makes sense? are love and hate nothing more than chemical reactions to allow us to procreate and find our place in the pack though Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Accip74 7,112 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Surprising the amount non believers that still get married in church though, when their women insist on it..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paulus 26 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Surprising the amount non believers that still get married in church though, when their women insist on it..... tradition and religion get intertwined Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dosser 52 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 So do people think that once Christianity has died out in the west, the powers that be (tptb) will not wish to fill the void with some other controlling belief system ? Seems to me that nowadays money is god and TV the church, very evolved. 'The man who believes in nothing, can be made to believe in anything' Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Accip74 7,112 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Surprising the amount non believers that still get married in church though, when their women insist on it..... tradition and religion get intertwined Also very common at the moment, is pretending to be religious to get your kids in a better school, my bruv' is doing it at the moment lol.......he said the church is busy with non believers.....lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drebz87 39 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Dreb87 believe me it is not my intention to try convince anyone of anything however this is a question always thrown at me "faith in something I cannot see or be able to understand till death ain't for me" I thought about this myself and decided that I know of other things that exist such as love and hate, I can't see or prove they exist but I know that they do. That's the same for me and faith if that makes sense? I see where you'r coming from but i can feel hate or love, but i have no 'feelings' on faith, if you can see what i mean. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Seeker 3,048 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Dreb87 believe me it is not my intention to try convince anyone of anything however this is a question always thrown at me "faith in something I cannot see or be able to understand till death ain't for me" I thought about this myself and decided that I know of other things that exist such as love and hate, I can't see or prove they exist but I know that they do. That's the same for me and faith if that makes sense? are love and hate nothing more than chemical reactions to allow us to procreate and find our place in the pack though Yes mate but isn't our very existence a combination of chemical reactions, how we interpret them is down to what we believe. Anyway must dash, off to see Sheffield Wednesday in a thrilling match with Macclesfield, who'd of thought it a Christian and a Wednesday fan surely for me there's no coming back from that....... ATB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 If you are interested in the origins of religion etc. The Golden Bough, by James Frazer (A Scottish Anthropologist). It was first written in 1890. There are a lot of books about it. Another decent read (if a little dense in writing style) is Ritual Theory, Ritual Practice, by Catherine Bell. They believe that some kind of religious or spiritual though was present right at the start of mans evolution, when someone had the ability to question or consider death. . . . They think that in general it progressed through - Animism - Totemism - Anthropomorphism - Polytheism - Monotheism - (Or something like that) Organised religion is a very different thing. That's just a group of clever / sly folk, realising that they could use all of this belief stuff to stop folk asking questions, excuse persecution and wars and generally control folk, and keep them down. Bad stuff indeed! Watched a lengthy documentary about Greek gods on iPlayer a few weeks back, came up with some interesting theories backed up with archaeological evidence about how beliefs changed and spread from area to area as humans started to trade over long distances. They reckon even the monotheist Abrahamic religions had the same roots as the Greek gods if you went back far enough. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 47,503 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Serious question to all the guys who believe in god. Honestly, hand on heart, do you believe there is a guy up in the clouds looking down on us right now? Seriously, I would like to know and I promise I won't laugh. Ok, I will bite as well....... I believe there is something more than the black & white of every day consciousness......I don't know what it is, but I suppose we all like to give something a name so "God" is as good as any. Now, it's not so hard to believe that a man was born 2014 years ago who saw beyond the black & white of mans every day dealings with each other, a person who saw that its all not just about what one person can take from another or what can be pillaged from the earth. It's also a fact that hate makes you feel bad and love makes you feel good......again, things you can't touch or taste but you experience them all the same. It's also a fact that when you are actually standing in the most beautiful places on earth you get a different feeling to just looking at a picture, why is that? To me, that's spirituality........ Could that person 2014 years ago have been so in touch with all this that he tyres to teach us how to experience it every day?......why not? Some may have said this made him "the son of God" I don't know if it lives "in the clouds" or where but there's something more than mundane, negative, black & white life......that's my god Also, I think most posters in this thread are not clear if its religion or organised church that they dislike.....one is not the same as the other IMHO 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,798 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 WILF, I've tried to make my feelings clear, so you'll know I'm no believer but that post was very worthy of a 'like' even from someone like me. That explains faith and personal religion perfectly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malt 379 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 We all call things by different names Wilf, but my way of saying exactly the same thing as you are saying on that last paragraph is that religion is one thing and belief/faith is the other. I have belief and faith in spades, on or about what I couldn't tell you, it's something I'm yet to put my finger on and probably never will. What I could tell you I have very little to no faith at all in organised religion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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