Dear Mr Mink . . .

[mushroom 12,903]

Yer, I've read about the fox thing and done a lot of research into the wolf to dog transition. It does seem like its all about the fact that certain individual animals are lacking in that fear and so will be drawn to folk for the advantages they offer, food, shelter etc. . . . without that being negated by the flight reaction. So are those the more fearless creatures or the more stupid? lol.

 

R.E the ferrets . . . . that was my guess on the matter to be honest. Probably something a long the lines of. Polecat less scared of folk hunts in and around settlement. Polecat has litter. Person ends up with young / infant polecat and decides to raise it as it amuses them and has a purpose (pest control). . . . similar to dogs, cats, horses etc.

 

Interesting isn't it?

 

P.S just remember that my neighbour had a pair of polecats make home in his outhouse roof. . . . . when I was a child.

Only problem with the argument (and I agree with it 99%) is horses flightiest, moodiest, feckin animals in t'countryside

[Malt 379]

Horses are flighty because their relatively recent ancestors were prey animals who inhabited wide open spaces with no cover and they were preyed on by animals with big teeth and big claws.. ..or so some horse whisperer dude said on some program I watched a few years back! :laugh:

 

Wonder if there's anything about ferrets in a certain book that a certain member advised me to get a few years back..

[mushroom 12,903]

Horses are flighty because their relatively recent ancestors were prey animals who inhabited wide open spaces with no cover and they were preyed on by animals with big teeth and big claws.. ..or so some horse whisperer dude said on some program I watched a few years back! :laugh:

 

Wonder if there's anything about ferrets in a certain book that a certain member advised me to get a few years back..

My point exactly

 

How the hell do you domesticate something that either runs like f**k away from you or starts trying to stomp ya head into the ground while hamstringing you

[Malt 379]

 

Horses are flighty because their relatively recent ancestors were prey animals who inhabited wide open spaces with no cover and they were preyed on by animals with big teeth and big claws.. ..or so some horse whisperer dude said on some program I watched a few years back! :laugh:

 

Wonder if there's anything about ferrets in a certain book that a certain member advised me to get a few years back..

My point exactly

 

How the hell do you domesticate something that either runs like f**k away from you or starts trying to stomp ya head into the ground while hamstringing you

 

 

Very little about the history of ferrets in 'The velvet claw', just had a quick scan through the mustelide section.. I did read a bit about female stoats being impregnated by adult males while they are still suckling in the burrow, I've gone right off them now, peado b*****ds..

[Ideation 8,216]

R.E the horse bit - I just meant that they are flighty mo fos. . . .. but someone ended up being able to sit on ones back fairly quick. . . . in human societys evolution. So I guess some were less flighty than others. Leading to someone being close to one and thinking. . . . hey I reckon I could sit on that things back without a saddle, reigns etc etc. And considering that they are from wide open spaces that was no mean feat!

[Huan72 687]

Interesting stuff, the fearless, more inquisitive animal approaching humans and becoming domesticated. Reminds me of something that I read about the expansion of humanity and that to survive, a species needs the stay at home type and also the lets go and have a look type. Scientists now think that the condition ADHD, was a factor in Humanities expansion out of Africa and a person with ADHD has a mind that is wired up in different ways to someone without the condition. Could some individuals of different species have a similar condition :hmm:It wouldn't surprise me at all, it may be natures way of increasing the chances of a species survival if times and resources change

[mushroom 12,903]

 

 

Horses are flighty because their relatively recent ancestors were prey animals who inhabited wide open spaces with no cover and they were preyed on by animals with big teeth and big claws.. ..or so some horse whisperer dude said on some program I watched a few years back! :laugh:

 

Wonder if there's anything about ferrets in a certain book that a certain member advised me to get a few years back..

My point exactly

 

How the hell do you domesticate something that either runs like f**k away from you or starts trying to stomp ya head into the ground while hamstringing you

 

 

Very little about the history of ferrets in 'The velvet claw', just had a quick scan through the mustelide section.. I did read a bit about female stoats being impregnated by adult males while they are still suckling in the burrow, I've gone right off them now, peado b*****ds..

 

ffs that's all you took from it lmao :laugh:

 

Mustelids are an impressive branch of the mammal family like canines they have natural curiosity show me a curious non domesticated, non violent horse

[Malt 379]

Of course not Kie, I've used it on here countless times when folk have said ferrets are more closely related to cats than dogs etc..

 

I love reading about the natural history of domesticated animals. For years it was assumed that man went out and 'tamed the beast', but more recent theories are suggesting that things like dogs and cats came to us. Going back to ferrets and polecats, it ain't a stretch to see how a few thousand years ago conditions round humans were more favourable for some of them to live. Plenty of food in the way of vermin to hunt and more protection from the higher number of apex predators that were out there. Could also explain why ferrets are social creatures compared to polecats. There would have been no need to be territorial with the amount of rats, mice and other vermin that would have been plentiful in the unsanitary conditions that people used to live in..

[mushroom 12,903]

Of course not Kie, I've used it on here countless times when folk have said ferrets are more closely related to cats than dogs etc..

 

I love reading about the natural history of domesticated animals. For years it was assumed that man went out and 'tamed the beast', but more recent theories are suggesting that things like dogs and cats came to us. Going back to ferrets and polecats, it ain't a stretch to see how a few thousand years ago conditions round humans were more favourable for some of them to live. Plenty of food in the way of vermin to hunt and more protection from the higher number of apex predators that were out there. Could also explain why ferrets are social creatures compared to polecats. There would have been no need to be territorial with the amount of rats, mice and other vermin that would have been plentiful in the unsanitary conditions that people used to live in..

Makes sense to me Those experiments in Russia proved that fear reactions and conquering/overcoming them is genetic. All it takes is as you say a couple living in around the camp maybe some had the courage to approach a piece of meat held out by a human hand....; We'll never know

[Dosser 52]

Yer I get what you are saying mate, and perhaps you are right. It's entirely feasible

 

Just going on my experience. The wild one I had here (and others I have seen) were very very 'wild' in their nature.

 

The one I had hid in the darkest corner it could, only came out at night, and when I tried to handle it, it would freeze solid, like it was dead, as my hand approached, like it was shit scared, and as my hand made contact, turned into a ball of spitting, hissing teeth.

 

It's funny how some animals are naturally more ok with people, than others, both individuals and species.

Feckin hell . . .sounds just like my ex misses !

[Huan72 687]

That seems like a more than realistic scenario to me Malt Look at foxes now, how they are getting close to people in towns, showing less fear, I can easily see how a similar thing happened many years ago with wolves, the difference is of course that wolves bought something to the party for us, lookouts, hunting partners etc.

[mushroom 12,903]

That seems like a more than realistic scenario to me Malt Look at foxes now, how they are getting close to people in towns, showing less fear, I can easily see how a similar thing happened many years ago with wolves, the difference is of course that wolves bought something to the party for us, lookouts, hunting partners etc.

Think the major difference with foxes though is the pack mentality. Wolves can see others as their equals/partners/comrades foxes only really gather in groups in cities where there is so much food there is no need to be aggressively territorial.

[Malt 379]

That seems like a more than realistic scenario to me Malt Look at foxes now, how they are getting close to people in towns, showing less fear, I can easily see how a similar thing happened many years ago with wolves, the difference is of course that wolves bought something to the party for us, lookouts, hunting partners etc.

 

 

It's been proved that under controlled conditions foxes can become domesticated:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox

 

There is a documentary out there somewhere about that program, it's been going on for 50 years or more.Well worth a watch. I'd say the difference with the wolves being domesticated is that they are pack animals and already used to living socially, whereas foxes are solitary.

 

EDIT: Beat me to it Kie!

[Tiercel 6,986]

Now this is a thread worth reading.........

 

TC

[Huan72 687]

Interesting topic for sure . Very true about the pack mentality