Mark Duggan

[bracken boy 584]

Good point... Ask one thing in your view how much pain and suffering do you think this duggan would have dished out in next few years? And if they are the facts they would im.sure come to a different verdict??

[arcticgun 4,548]

says in this morning rag that the officer has a split second to make a call on it, had duggan gone onto shoot several people that day or even one , how would they of stood then, again its a case of live be the sword die be the sword, end of story, he was involved in both drugs and arms trade, he knew the risks involved as they are often in line with the rewards that come with success in that game, so fook him and all of his sort, they don't think twice when they peddling there wares on the streets causing untold misery , maybe make a few scar face wannabees a little more aware of what a poor career choice it can be

[baw 4,360]

 

 

 

 

 

 

mate if they had of erred on the side of caution he would still be alive and no one would be dead on that tube because there wasn't any bombers on there. I do get what your saying it is a hard job but to many innocent people have died and again I'm not talking about Duggan but people with no links to any crime . Fair play mate different opinions

 

Well obviously! LOL. Hindsight is always viewed with 20/20 vision. So you believe they should take the policy of "errr maybe he's not a bomber" with every incident? I simply don't agree with that because it would be the most ineffective and dangerous policy for everyone. They have to trust their intelligence and act ruthlessly, I would be ashamed with anything less.

wow that suprises me mate.

were not talking about some war zone here.its the streets of britain.your gonna draw a gun and shoot some c**t then i want more than just a fleeting glance at someones arse.

that could have been anyone that got plugged by them, do a wee bit of reading born about special branch and security forces given carte blanche in northern ireland. some of it is shocking reading,and tbh in some cases unbelievable.

Scott I didn't say that did I. They acted on poor intelligence and got the wrong man. They have to have a shoot to kill policy with bombers, anything less would result in bombs going off. Hence they can't errr on the side of caution.

 

What happened in NI is another thing all together. A lot of stuff alleged to have happened. I've read a bit about it, but no expert.

I've heard a few times folk saying they used intelligence but got the wrong man. This isn't just aimed at born, I'm just curious..... Did they ever get the right man the intelligence flagged I wonder

[arcticgun 4,548]

if all these 'colored drug dealers' do not like our polices way of dealing with them maybe they should try say leaving our country and plying there trade say in Jamaica, had he been shot down like a dog in the street there it would of not even raised an ambulance never mind a head line, nor would his parents whining have been listened too , maybe they feel a little guilt themselves?

[baw 4,360]

says in this morning rag that the officer has a split second to make a call on it, had duggan gone onto shoot several people that day or even one , how would they of stood then, again its a case of live be the sword die be the sword, end of story, he was involved in both drugs and arms trade, he knew the risks involved as they are often in line with the rewards that come with success in that game, so fook him and all of his sort, they don't think twice when they peddling there wares on the streets causing untold misery , maybe make a few scar face wannabees a little more aware of what a poor career choice it can be

Exactly mate. If you rob houses for a living, are well know to the authorities for it, find yourself getting a pull for a house you never robbed, you can hardly start crying of the unjust of it. Same with this, only difference is he wasn't robbing houses, he was playing a more deadlier game for his coin and the outcome if falsely accused warrants the outcome he got.

[TUFFTY 1,476]

Oh deary me.

[walshie 2,804]

Fair play to the Commissioner of the Met Police. He sent a letter of sympathy to Duggan's family, but he flatly refused to send any apologies. Top man.

[johnny boy68 11,726]

Oh deary me.

So what grounds are you basing this Duggans innocence on? Because you worked in Tottenham and his old man did a bit of painting for you?

[paulus 26]

his dna was not found on the sock the gun was wrapped in but his fingerprints were found on the lid of the shoe box that was given to him by Kevin Hutchinson Foster and found in the back of the taxi, the taxi driver confirmed duggen was handed the box by foster. the intelligence the police were acting on told then who he getting the gun from,when he was due to pick it up.where from and why he wanted it. this was a planned revenge attack after the killing of his cousin.

[Born Hunter 17,751]

 

 

 

 

mate if they had of erred on the side of caution he would still be alive and no one would be dead on that tube because there wasn't any bombers on there. I do get what your saying it is a hard job but to many innocent people have died and again I'm not talking about Duggan but people with no links to any crime . Fair play mate different opinions

 

Well obviously! LOL. Hindsight is always viewed with 20/20 vision. So you believe they should take the policy of "errr maybe he's not a bomber" with every incident? I simply don't agree with that because it would be the most ineffective and dangerous policy for everyone. They have to trust their intelligence and act ruthlessly, I would be ashamed with anything less.

wow that suprises me mate.

were not talking about some war zone here.its the streets of britain.your gonna draw a gun and shoot some c**t then i want more than just a fleeting glance at someones arse.

that could have been anyone that got plugged by them, do a wee bit of reading born about special branch and security forces given carte blanche in northern ireland. some of it is shocking reading,and tbh in some cases unbelievable.

Scott I didn't say that did I. They acted on poor intelligence and got the wrong man. They have to have a shoot to kill policy with bombers, anything less would result in bombs going off. Hence they can't errr on the side of caution.

 

What happened in NI is another thing all together. A lot of stuff alleged to have happened. I've read a bit about it, but no expert.

I've heard a few times folk saying they used intelligence but got the wrong man. This isn't just aimed at born, I'm just curious..... Did they ever get the right man the intelligence flagged I wonder

 

 

Yeah they did. It was just one big cock up due to missidentification and extreme levels of threat. It looks like he was followed after being missidentified by an Army Intelligence operator on secondment to the Police. He was picked up at a communal entrance which a couple of the bombers used and missidentified from the previous days CCTV. They followed him and was given orders to not let him enter the tube (for obvious reasons), he acted very suspiciously so they engaged him as a suspected bomber following proper protocol of shoot to kill. The whole thing escalated due to the very real threat at the time and poor intelligence. The lads they sent just don't f**k about.

 

And yeah, they got the fuckers that they wanted. Tried and prosecuted.

[paulus 26]

from what statements is available on line, i have no doubts that he picked that gun up from foster and it wasn't to be used for grouse shooting that's for sure, as for the final act of being shot by the police then yes there are definitely questions to answered by both the police and ipcc and there handling of the case, but that gun was defiantly in that taxi in that box with duggen when it was stopped by the police that day, the simple facts are had he not been in possession of that gun he would not have been shot, by possession i mean it being his and not pointing it at the police,

[baw 4,360]

 

 

 

 

 

 

mate if they had of erred on the side of caution he would still be alive and no one would be dead on that tube because there wasn't any bombers on there. I do get what your saying it is a hard job but to many innocent people have died and again I'm not talking about Duggan but people with no links to any crime . Fair play mate different opinions

 

Well obviously! LOL. Hindsight is always viewed with 20/20 vision. So you believe they should take the policy of "errr maybe he's not a bomber" with every incident? I simply don't agree with that because it would be the most ineffective and dangerous policy for everyone. They have to trust their intelligence and act ruthlessly, I would be ashamed with anything less.

wow that suprises me mate.

were not talking about some war zone here.its the streets of britain.your gonna draw a gun and shoot some c**t then i want more than just a fleeting glance at someones arse.

that could have been anyone that got plugged by them, do a wee bit of reading born about special branch and security forces given carte blanche in northern ireland. some of it is shocking reading,and tbh in some cases unbelievable.

Scott I didn't say that did I. They acted on poor intelligence and got the wrong man. They have to have a shoot to kill policy with bombers, anything less would result in bombs going off. Hence they can't errr on the side of caution.

 

What happened in NI is another thing all together. A lot of stuff alleged to have happened. I've read a bit about it, but no expert.

I've heard a few times folk saying they used intelligence but got the wrong man. This isn't just aimed at born, I'm just curious..... Did they ever get the right man the intelligence flagged I wonder

Yeah they did. It was just one big cock up due to missidentification and extreme levels of threat. It looks like he was followed after being missidentified by an Army Intelligence operator on secondment to the Police. He was picked up at a communal entrance which a couple of the bombers used and missidentified from the previous days CCTV. They followed him and was given orders to not let him enter the tube (for obvious reasons), he acted very suspiciously so they engaged him as a suspected bomber following proper protocol of shoot to kill. The whole thing escalated due to the very real threat at the time and poor intelligence. The lads they sent just don't f**k about.

 

And yeah, they got the fuckers that they wanted. Tried and prosecuted.

Thanks for that born and very well put I might add

[scothunter 12,609]

acting suspiciously? like buying a paper,when they said he made a run for it and jumped the ticket barrier which he did not.

he sat in his seat reading his paper,when they came on the tube and shot him in the head a few times. people on the tube said at the time, they will never forget the fear in the lads face.

 

oh and not forgetting when they asked for the cctv it wasnt working. now right away thats shite. 2weeks after a bomb attack and they didnt have working cctv. no f***ing chance!

 

like i said have respect for what the security services do for us,but this time they behaved like rookies,and tbh thats pretty disturbing when you think about it.

[Born Hunter 17,751]

acting suspiciously? like buying a paper,when they said he made a run for it and jumped the ticket barrier which he did not.

he sat in his seat reading his paper,when they came on the tube and shot him in the head a few times. people on the tube said at the time, they will never forget the fear in the lads face.

 

oh and not forgetting when they asked for the cctv it wasnt working. now right away thats shite. 2weeks after a bomb attack and they didnt have working cctv. no f*****g chance!

 

like i said have respect for what the security services do for us,but this time they behaved like rookies,and tbh thats pretty disturbing when you think about it.

 

Scott mate, he ran to the tube and they engaged him, they made a judgement call there and then. They had identified him as a bomber from the previous day and followed him, he ran for the tube and so they had to engage him as a bomber. IF the intel had been correct and he had been one of the suspects we wouldn't be having this conversation and it would be a job well done. They had no choice based on the intelligence they had. It was an intelligence cock up, not a procedural one. They followed procedure to perfection.

 

It's not an excuse but I can understand it.

 

As for the attempted cover up, yeah that's wrong but it's standard practice in any organisation when a f**k up is made. Everybody does it. Our government has been covering up it's embarassments since it's creation.

[Born Hunter 17,751]

Just to add, I said it wasn't a procedural cock up. What I meant was they made the right judgement call to kill a suspected bomber. In light of what happened they should have engaged him sooner before he became such a threat. For whatever reason they didn't but I imagine that has been changed since these events.