Terriers V Spaniels

[bryanm45 787]

Here's my lad I take Beating, holds his own in the line, works thick blackthorn well to the point the keeper make me go through the thickest bit of the drive.

[Davro 108]

the russell bitch i give away a few weeks ago was as well trained as any spaniel an if it enters cover there something coming out of it. It stay well with in range for the gun an picks up and retrieves to hand

[night hawk 13 2]

In my opinion a good terrier far out weighs a spaniel anyday.As a spaniel will go into any cover when instructed to even if nothing is there a good hunting terrier will only enter cover if there is something there so for that reason alone id choose a terrier.Also terriers can find there way through tight spaces and cover quicker in my opinion.

[Bossie 90]

Spaniels I've worked with, all great to hunt with but they fit into a different niche when bushing compared to a terrier.

 

I'm not a big fan of the extremely biddable robotic entering any cover you tell them to hunting style. The ones I've seen (from good lines) when trained as a gundog almost seem to be unaware of what they are pushing out of the cover. The just follow the same pattern over and over again, robotic hunting to me.

However if given the chance through lots of ferreting without any guns, they improve a lot. They become much more aware of their environment. They seem to be trusting their nose more and hunting up a bit further which I do like. Out of excitement and frustration both of them have started giving tongue.

Biggest fault I think spaniels (cocker / springer) have when bushing is that they stay to close (for my land), they don't put enough pressure on the rabbits to go to ground. A bit of hound would certainly benefit them imho. Springer hound mix is quite popular over here in certain areas.

 

My Epagneul Breton, as big as a large cocker/small springer will go wherever his nose tells him he might find game. He is just a tad big to enter the thickest cover but he stands his ground and never has put me to shame even though he's not bread to work brambles. He can cover a lot more ground a lot faster, real timesaver! If I could get his work ethic and pace in even a slightly smaller posture (he's 17.5" tts) I'd stick to it. He will give tongue, excellent marker, will predict where the rabbit will bolt, will put enough pressure on the rabbits for them to go to ground and will stay with to warren for you to net it, will hunt almost everything, had him baying a 80KG pig once, will point and flush (although not trained or used as a gundog by me), will retrieve. He can work a line but will usually air scent.

If he'd been with me as a pup and properly trained as a ferreting dog I'm certain he would have been able to handle bolters. Is soft mouthed when needed to, and will bite if you'd like him to. Very calm in the house, great with kids. Only a few problems with them imho, they need a lot of work, they take well to almost everything but you have to take their hunting style into consideration (they range quite far, this is not a close hunting dog by heart), imho not a dog to rehome once they bond with you.

 

We also have a small terrier in our ferreting pack, looks a bit like a std/leggy JR. Called a Boerenfox. Hard to get a good one with enough drive. This one is very driven, small, yappy, hardmouthed atm. Will go places the cockers can only dream of. Will put a lot of pressure on the quarry which I do like. At the moment it will retrieve but it retrieves bunnies as döner kebab which is no good to me. It will follow a line very well. It is biddable which they usually aren't which is a downside with a lot of terriers if you ask me. Especially if you hunt relatively small permissions near to public roads.

 

With future breeding plans in mind I bought my sister a continental bred working terrier. Parents work badger, fox, boar, feather, rabbits... well everything. They are also used to track wounded deer etc. As a pest control dog (hunting badger, fox, boar, rats, rabbits) I don't think you can get a much more allround dog. Maybe add 1/8 cocker/springer to the mix to make them just that bit more biddable and add 1/8 hound. Done.

 

Like posted by Ideation (iirc), I think the future lies in designer bread mutts/bushing mongrels. I could see a nice working bred teckel bringing something to the table to add to the current small Boerenfox I use. A small cocker might also be an option to add later on. But that would depend on the kind of hunting I'd be doing in a few years time. The terriers I've hunted with have a great work ethic, do or die. But the Breton has exactly the same mentality, the cockers are a bit softer. If you find a very allround hunting terrier from lines that have been used for all kinds of purposes I think you can get an extremely good and versatile dog. Pound for pound probably the most versatile and the cheapest dog you'd be able to get.

 

If I was allowed to have just one dog with the current hunting tasks I have and had to choose between a terrier and a spaniel of some sort. It would be either a terrier from allround parents that I put a lot of effort into his training or an Epagneul Breton. I think the biggest question would be if want a dog that will also go to ground or if you'd like t avoid one that will when choosing between the two.

If a mix of both was allowed I'd go for the allround terrier x cocker mix first cross.

[tatsblisters 9,705]

Good post Bossie and regarding spaniels that veiw is bang on.I have used small type springers for nearly 30 years and have let them have free reighn [BANNED TEXT] bushing as long as the recall is good and they do think for themselfs also due to badgers in some areas i have never had need to worry [BANNED TEXT] being near their setts.

[malc1 544]

ive got a berdie x grey x jrt i took her beating for the first time she loved it and she had a pricked bird on the picking up and bought it right back to hand shes about 18 tts but works the brambles like a jrt and got the lurcher speed im going to try and get her on the whistle now i was well chuffed with her

[malc1 544]

this is her following my mates springer

[Ideation 8,216]

Looking good Malc!!!!!

 

To some others..... How come everyone is talkin as if cockers and springers have the same working style? They don't!!

[Born Hunter 17,763]

Looking good Malc!!!!!

 

To some others..... How come everyone is talkin as if cockers and springers have the same working style? They don't!!

 

Go on the Ideation, what's the difference? And why are they different? Considering they do the same job and were originally one in the same.

 

Genuinely interested because from what I've seen they are still essentially very similar.

[Ideation 8,216]

I'm posting from my phone so I'll write a proper reply later. But in essence I would say that from what I've seen springers are more inclined to hunt what their handlers instruct them to, whereas cockers seem less inclined to hunt cover that's not holding at least scent. Also springers seem to work in a tighter side to side sweeping motion, as their pattern. Cockers seem to make a slightly more circular sweeping motion. Also cockers seem to enjoy working bramble far less. Essentially I think the differences come from the cockers original application hunting woodcock, on looser more open ground perhaps.

 

Many will disagree I'm sure but I've seen enough good dogs of both breeds and spoken to enough good spaniel men who have said the same .... To have formed my opinion.

[Born Hunter 17,763]

I'm not about to call anybody a lier, just interested in other people's opinions on the two breeds and how it differs to mine from my limited experience.

 

I've read and heard the very same as what you have said quoted to me by others. But I'm yet to see a real significant difference myself. Generally speaking, I honestly could'nt put much between a cocker or a springer. I've seen all the traits from springers in cockers and all the traits from cockers in springers. I'm either a bit blind to it all not personally working one or it's just the few I've seen.

 

Thanks for sharing your views.

[Ideation 8,216]

We've a cocker here now being trained. My old man is a springer man. . . . And he likes to tell me at great length how different they are to train to a high standard and how different they work. I really trust and value his opinion and it fits with a lot of what I've seen. I think being close to them being trained helps to see it.

[malc1 544]

Looking good Malc!!!!!

 

To some others..... How come everyone is talkin as if cockers and springers have the same working style? They don't!!

cheers jai i only took her beating as she is a great little bushing dog and comeing on well and as ive just started beating thought it would be nice to have a lurcher x to do the job i hope she keeps at now because she did really well ive talked to a lot of the beaters and they said its nice to see other breeds of dogs out in the field instead of labs and springers ill put some more time into her now shes so keen to learn atb malc

[Ideation 8,216]

Yer I love seeing the other breeds out! We got the odd terrier, but never had a lurcher out. I need to come up and see you guys!

[malc1 544]

Yer I love seeing the other breeds out! We got the odd terrier, but never had a lurcher out. I need to come up and see you guys!

about time you did come and see us its a good little x when she retrived back to hand i was well chuffed come and see us soon