Thatcher.......even More Lies

[Nik_B 3,790]

This is the employment history of the coal industry. It shows a steady decline for 90 old years. It was an unprofitable business and needed reform which the unions were against especially after they saw what happened to British Steel. Having said that it seems foolish for a country to not subsidize a strategic resource like energy to a degree but that shouldn't mean allowing the unions to hold the country at gunpoint.

 

 

 

http://www.ncm.org.uk/docs/collections-documents/statistics-in-mining.pdf?sfvrsn=2

[WILF 46,645]

What business would have wanted to come and set up shop knowing they would have unions like that to deal with?........the union f****d over its members every bit as bad as the government did.

 

Look at Grangemouth!!!........the yanks showed them what they think of there union.

[Malt 379]

Coal mining is probably viable again as the costs have risen so much they're even talking about opening new metal mines in the SE as well. What gets in the way now though is the greenies, nimbies and EU regulation.

 

The cost of extraction is always going to be the problem where you have cheap labour overseas and less regulation compared to here. As the cost of living and living standards rise else where it will become more likely over here.

Plenty of cheap labour here these days.. Went to my hometown on new years day, every place I went to was full of eastern European staff.. These are the kind of jobs that youngsters used to do when I was growing up, in the chippies and cafes, etc. Extremely low paid and seasonal for the most part, always had a high turnover of staff as the kids grew up and moved onto properly paid jobs or just got fed up of being treated like shit. Can't really blame the employers because it makes sense to hire a adult at a certain age who will happily work for the pittance they get paid and crucially stay around in that job. It's not good for young people trying to get on the employment ladder though. I can see the same happening if they open any mines back. There are probably more than enough experienced miners in the shitholes of Europe that would gladly pack their cases and head here if they got the call..

[tatsblisters 9,498]

 

Coal mining is probably viable again as the costs have risen so much they're even talking about opening new metal mines in the SE as well. What gets in the way now though is the greenies, nimbies and EU regulation.

 

The cost of extraction is always going to be the problem where you have cheap labour overseas and less regulation compared to here. As the cost of living and living standards rise else where it will become more likely over here.

Plenty of cheap labour here these days.. Went to my hometown on new years day, every place I went to was full of eastern European staff.. These are the kind of jobs that youngsters used to do when I was growing up, in the chippies and cafes, etc. Extremely low paid and seasonal for the most part, always had a high turnover of staff as the kids grew up and moved onto properly paid jobs or just got fed up of being treated like shit. Can't really blame the employers because it makes sense to hire a adult at a certain age who will happily work for the pittance they get paid and crucially stay around in that job. It's not good for young people trying to get on the employment ladder though. I can see the same happening if they open any mines back. There are probably more than enough experienced miners in the shitholes of Europe that would gladly pack their cases and head here if they got the call..

 

Very true Malt.The last pit recently to shut in s.yorks had a number of poles working their.

[robbo 828]

The pits in south Yorkshire had poles working in them when I started in 1977 .

[tatsblisters 9,498]

The pits in south Yorkshire had poles working in them when I started in 1977 .

These were poles who had come over in the last ten years.I also worked with some who as lads had fled nazi occupied poland in the war.

[Pedwar 320]

Same as South Wales always was poles working in the pits since before ww2

[gonetoearth 5,144]

 

 

 

 

 

We are still sat on loads of some of the best coal in the world and we ship shite from half way across the world. Closing the pits wasn't about the money.

 

is it worth the expense in digging it up when its all going green solar and all that the Gov have to keep in with the rest of the bollox that goes on

Keep in with the rest? Like Germany mate? We've must closed our last coal fired power station to comply with EU clean air legislation.. Germany have 5 massive and brand new ones coming on line..

We're told that we live in a time of energy crisis, yet we sit on enough of a substance that could power us for at least another third of a millennium. Not just that but the coal we have here is some of the cleanest burning coal in the whole world, especially the seams further west..

every one knows we have coal and that we can mine it but will the people pay for it ?quoteing some numbers By 1984 it cost £44 to mine a metric ton of British coal. America, Australia, and South Africa were selling it on the world market for £32 a metric ton.

Taxpayers were subsidising the mining industry to the tune of £1.3 billion annually. This figure doesnt include the vast cost to taxpayer-funded industries such as steel and electricity which were obliged to buy British coal........

 

personally i dont see anything changing

. We dont buy american austrialian or yarpy coal we in port columbian through liverpool docks sent all over the country by. Red diesel powered engines Lol owned by ill let the Educated reasearch who owns it oh and we turn a blind eye it seems to how its brought from the other side of the world Keep in line with green clean policy's in old bulk carriers. Ah well just as long as the working british man gets the blame for everything eh , to read half the. Posts on here You would think the were written by landed gentry lol. The could not beat us by the sword but thier. Taking us apart with a pen. And are own country men are helping them.

i'l just assume you dissagree,i cant make head nor tale of that slobber.

and ill assume its way above your intellect

[gonetoearth 5,144]

 

 

Where was Kinnock's type and his unions when Harold Wilson was in power?

Wilson the Labour MP prior to Thatcher closed 290 pits while he was in office why were the unions not going on strike when this was happening?

Thatcher closed 160 whilst she was in office. The closure of the coal mines had already begun and in much larger quantities than Thatcher but for some reason it's ignored...

Edit to add taken from another forum:

Originally Posted by Hillian1

My father was a coal merchant in the early eighties and the miners strike nearly took his company under. He made inquiries when there was NO coal left to buy or sell to Germany and guess what? They found they could import superior quality coal from the continent for half the price including transportation.

 

. Lol superior quality. Than anthrosite must be burning gold.

Only two or three sites in the world produce coal of a higher quality than we've got here, Pennsylvania in the US is one and I think there are a few seams in Australia.. It's all to do with the purity, and the older the seam the more the coal has had the impurities squeezed out and it has a higher carbon content..

 

Shutting the mines and other industrial areas down was a method of population control. By taking them away the government ensured that massive numbers of civilians could no longer rally and pose a threat to the government. It's not just the 'working man' who has suffered as a result, it's all of us. IMO the unions should have stayed away from the politics and concentrated on looking after their workers rights. I know I've said it on here before, but it was the good old British class system that was at the core of the union battles. Post war, all you needed to have to walk into a management job was to have been to the correct school, you didn't have to have a clue about the job you were being hired to do. It was the 'do as you're told, peasant' attitude that gave the union leaders a stick to hit out with. Look at Germany, they have unions and they have never had the same sort of trouble as we have had. They crucially have no class system, Union members sit on the boards with the management and they work together to suit the interests of all involved.

. The germans have sat back and waited , amazing to think the marshall programme was funded by us and the rst of the allies. And a british officer rebuilt the german car industry Good old tommy eh

[Malt 379]

. The germans have sat back and waited , amazing to think the marshall programme was funded by us and the rst of the allies. And a british officer rebuilt the german car industry Good old tommy eh

 

 

 

Yep, they rebuilt it the British way, only over there management positions were filled according to ability and people from the same social backgrounds work in the boardroom and on the shop floor. No class war axes to grind between the union reps and management there, just a constructive working relationship about how they move the company forward in a way that looks after the interests of all concerned..

[mushroom 12,878]

 

 

 

Where was Kinnock's type and his unions when Harold Wilson was in power?

Wilson the Labour MP prior to Thatcher closed 290 pits while he was in office why were the unions not going on strike when this was happening?

Thatcher closed 160 whilst she was in office. The closure of the coal mines had already begun and in much larger quantities than Thatcher but for some reason it's ignored...

Edit to add taken from another forum:

Originally Posted by Hillian1

My father was a coal merchant in the early eighties and the miners strike nearly took his company under. He made inquiries when there was NO coal left to buy or sell to Germany and guess what? They found they could import superior quality coal from the continent for half the price including transportation.

. Lol superior quality. Than anthrosite must be burning gold.

Only two or three sites in the world produce coal of a higher quality than we've got here, Pennsylvania in the US is one and I think there are a few seams in Australia.. It's all to do with the purity, and the older the seam the more the coal has had the impurities squeezed out and it has a higher carbon content..

 

Shutting the mines and other industrial areas down was a method of population control. By taking them away the government ensured that massive numbers of civilians could no longer rally and pose a threat to the government. It's not just the 'working man' who has suffered as a result, it's all of us. IMO the unions should have stayed away from the politics and concentrated on looking after their workers rights. I know I've said it on here before, but it was the good old British class system that was at the core of the union battles. Post war, all you needed to have to walk into a management job was to have been to the correct school, you didn't have to have a clue about the job you were being hired to do. It was the 'do as you're told, peasant' attitude that gave the union leaders a stick to hit out with. Look at Germany, they have unions and they have never had the same sort of trouble as we have had. They crucially have no class system, Union members sit on the boards with the management and they work together to suit the interests of all involved.

. The germans have sat back and waited , amazing to think the marshall programme was funded by us and the rst of the allies. And a british officer rebuilt the german car industry Good old tommy eh

 

GTE this is all either forgotten or simply not taught irritates the piss out of me tbh.

 

I see it a lot working with lots of Europeans they have no idea that the British rebuilt Europe all they know is that we handed it over without a fight

[gonetoearth 5,144]

I keep hearing about this mythical "working man" ?........who is he?, what's makes him entitled to anything?

I'm a working man, have been all my life, never asked the government for jack shit in all that time and don't want anything but I certainly don't want my money used to prop up failing industries !!

nor. I wilf you are the working man i speak of and like the rest of us we have been shit on are assets have been flogged off with no gain to are society. When theres boom we waste are country's wealth. Consecutive governments have squandered are youth while Germany trains their youth for work we educate ares to go to further education , you misunderstand me i am no fan of any work shy or union commies but have watched while assets have been flogged of for a pittance, people who want to come and work welcome , what do you want for this country wilf. Your kids to be second class in their own Country , Or have you given up on your country and its indigenous people Edited January 5, 2014 by gonetoearth

[gonetoearth 5,144]

 

. The germans have sat back and waited , amazing to think the marshall programme was funded by us and the rst of the allies. And a british officer rebuilt the german car industry Good old tommy eh

 

Yep, they rebuilt it the British way, only over there management positions were filled according to ability and people from the same social backgrounds work in the boardroom and on the shop floor. No class war axes to grind between the union reps and management there, just a constructive working relationship about how they move the company forward in a way that looks after the interests of all concerned..

ive worked with many germans great people. A lot like the brits in many ways they have union problems malt there employment law make are look like a shambles Can not be arsed going in to it though

[Malt 379]

I'm not saying they ain't had their union battles mate, but if you compare the days of productivity lost due to industrial actions here and there over the period of time in which the major battles were taking place there is simply no comparison..

[WILF 46,645]

 

I keep hearing about this mythical "working man" ?........who is he?, what's makes him entitled to anything?

I'm a working man, have been all my life, never asked the government for jack shit in all that time and don't want anything but I certainly don't want my money used to prop up failing industries !!

nor. I wilf you are the working man i speak of and like the rest of us we have been shit on are assets have been flogged off with no gain to are society. When theres boom we waste are country's wealth. Consecutive governments have squandered are youth while Germany trains their youth for work we educate ares to go to further education , you misunderstand me i am no fan of any work shy or union commies but have watched while assets have flogged of for a pittance, people who want to come and work welcome , what do you want for this country wilf. Your kids to be second class in their own Country , Or have you given up on your country and its indigenous people

Honestly mate, I dont want anything for this country.......I long ago got wise to all this wider society bollocks ( like the government refer too)......the only society worth caring about is the relationship you personally have with your friends, family and community.

 

All I want is for the government to leave me alone and if I could wish one thing for my kids it's that they one day have the freedom to be left alone, keep the money they earn and develope relationships as they see fit with the society around them (not the mythical society our politicians talk about which really means "give us all your money)

 

The crime with closing big industry IMHO is that we dont allow those men to stand on their own two feet and find alternative ways of earning a living, it's all rules, regulation and tax.

 

You can't take away a lifeline but then make it so difficult and expensive to function alone.......that's the real crime.

 

They want to keep us in financial and social (in the local sense) poverty........they don't want free independant stand alone men because then they are surplus to requirements.

 

We have to stop thinking in terms of these big government run industries, any thing the government gives you is slavery