BIGLURKS 874 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 We all know people who go through dogs like baw and the brick go through user names ... There are plenty of them on here ... So is it down to their lack of abilities as a trainer that they can't get the best out of a dog or is it that their standards are very high and if a dog doesn't make the grade then it doesn't stay ??? ... I don't know whether I am a half decent trainer or I have very low standards lol but I have been fortunate over the years that I haven't had to move dogs on apart from injuries that stopped them working .........i have moved one dog on a couple due too injury but I know what you mean there is a group on Facebook i some how got on and there is a lad on there that has been threw more dogs then I have boxers some folk don't have a dog long enuf too know what's it problems are just some folk are dicks 1 Quote Link to post
Bosun11 537 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 But it's not just about obedience, but also ability. A man can only do so much, in the end the dog has to do his part too. And some don't make the grade, pure and simple. You can train them to do anything, sit, stay, lie, retrieve fur/feather/land/water, they work the gun perfect, the long net, the ferret, but if they are bottleless and don't have the minerals to hunt what their owner wants them to hunt then there's nothing,nothing he can do about that. The Higher the standards, the higher the wastage. The hardest thing is being honest with yourself sometimes. Even with the best dog man in the world, there comes a day when the dog is on his own and then the truth comes out.... But that can also come down to the skill of the owner on how he enters the dog to each of its quarry ... If it's rushed then the most potential of dogs could be spoiled and if held back the full potential may never come to the forefront ... Obviously you get bad dogs as with all things in life but I was talking about guys that continually swap sell buy new dogs ... Every dog they have had can't be a bad dog surely ??? .............. You sound like my old adversary Crow..... No matter how 'careful' you enter the dog, one day you aint there to hold his hand. I totally agree ... But don't you agree that the better entered dog will do better ? ....... Not necessarily.... Lol ok I will re phrase it ... The better entered dog will have a better chance of making the grade ...... 'SHOULD'.... the better entered dog 'should' have a better chance of making the grade Ken but not always... IMO plenty of blame when a dog ain't suitable is the fact that the owner chose the wrong dog for the wrong job in the first place, never mind training the poor fecker, it stood no chance from the off and that is why it really boils my piss when folk 'recommend' a cross (or crosses), not a type on here for novices looking to own their first working lurcher, you could be the best fecking Cesar Woodhouse trainer in the world but if your mutt don't suit your fecked BUT back to subject.... Some dogs are simply bred poor and no matter what you put in 'em, when the chips are down they are simply not up to the job... Quote Link to post
whippet 99 2,613 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 just spit it out socks if your unhappy with your dog......... its easy for me as I haven't got any standards..........and nothing too prove too anyone......... 3 Quote Link to post
Sirius 1,391 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) Lads chop and change dogs all the fecking time, from observation it's usually young lads who don't really know what they want from a dog in the first place and maybe don't have much experience either. It doesn't help IMO when they hear lads saying 'high standards' 'not making the grade' 'jacker' etc, as these lads often don't know what the grade is as they have little experience to work on it so sadly get shot of the dog or even sell it!! This stuff really influences the new comers to our sport. The other discussion is nature or nurture and it's a bit of both and a fair bit of luck. But without a doubt some dogs just don't have what the owner wants or they posses a serious fault and many of those can't be undone. I know I have had one, but I did right by the dog. Edited December 17, 2013 by Sirius Quote Link to post
socks 32,253 Posted December 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 But it's not just about obedience, but also ability. A man can only do so much, in the end the dog has to do his part too. And some don't make the grade, pure and simple. You can train them to do anything, sit, stay, lie, retrieve fur/feather/land/water, they work the gun perfect, the long net, the ferret, but if they are bottleless and don't have the minerals to hunt what their owner wants them to hunt then there's nothing,nothing he can do about that. The Higher the standards, the higher the wastage. The hardest thing is being honest with yourself sometimes. Even with the best dog man in the world, there comes a day when the dog is on his own and then the truth comes out.... But that can also come down to the skill of the owner on how he enters the dog to each of its quarry ... If it's rushed then the most potential of dogs could be spoiled and if held back the full potential may never come to the forefront ... Obviously you get bad dogs as with all things in life but I was talking about guys that continually swap sell buy new dogs ... Every dog they have had can't be a bad dog surely ??? .............. You sound like my old adversary Crow..... No matter how 'careful' you enter the dog, one day you aint there to hold his hand. I totally agree ... But don't you agree that the better entered dog will do better ? ....... Not necessarily.... Lol ok I will re phrase it ... The better entered dog will have a better chance of making the grade ...... 'SHOULD'.... the better entered dog 'should' have a better chance of making the grade Ken but not always... IMO plenty of blame when a dog ain't suitable is the fact that the owner chose the wrong dog for the wrong job in the first place, never mind training the poor fecker, it stood no chance from the off and that is why it really boils my piss when folk 'recommend' a cross (or crosses), not a type on here for novices looking to own their first working lurcher, you could be the best fecking Cesar Woodhouse trainer in the world but if your mutt don't suit your fecked BUT back to subject.... Some dogs are simply bred poor and no matter what you put in 'em, when the chips are down they are simply not up to the job... Totally agree and I know where you are comming from but one man can't have dog after dog that's poorly bred surely there has to be a time when its the mans fault ........ 1 Quote Link to post
trenchfoot 4,243 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 Some people want instant success. They take on a dog/pup, feed it red mills and raw meat. Get it out behind the bike for a bit. Enter it on a few easy bunnies, brag about it as being the big dog man. Then they step up a level or two in their expectations of the dog. The dog doesn't match these expectations and dog gets moved on or culled 'cos it's shite. These folk need to look in the mirror, not at their dog! And some people just have bad luck 3 Quote Link to post
Phil Lloyd 10,738 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) In my opinion,...it is all down to what quarry you are after... These debates could go on and on,.ad-infinitum,...and it is surely possible within such a unique hunting man's website, to seperate,..once and for all,.the dyed in the wool, rabbiters/ferrets/netsmen,..from the lads who specialise,.and love 'other pursuits'.... In doing so,.it would prevent so much needless confusion.... Edited December 30, 2013 by Phil Lloyd 10 Quote Link to post
socks 32,253 Posted December 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 just spit it out socks if your unhappy with your dog......... its easy for me as I haven't got any standards..........and nothing too prove too anyone......... Lol I am happy with my mediocre youngster but then I have low standards ............. Quote Link to post
Bosun11 537 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 But it's not just about obedience, but also ability. A man can only do so much, in the end the dog has to do his part too. And some don't make the grade, pure and simple. You can train them to do anything, sit, stay, lie, retrieve fur/feather/land/water, they work the gun perfect, the long net, the ferret, but if they are bottleless and don't have the minerals to hunt what their owner wants them to hunt then there's nothing,nothing he can do about that. The Higher the standards, the higher the wastage. The hardest thing is being honest with yourself sometimes. Even with the best dog man in the world, there comes a day when the dog is on his own and then the truth comes out.... But that can also come down to the skill of the owner on how he enters the dog to each of its quarry ... If it's rushed then the most potential of dogs could be spoiled and if held back the full potential may never come to the forefront ... Obviously you get bad dogs as with all things in life but I was talking about guys that continually swap sell buy new dogs ... Every dog they have had can't be a bad dog surely ??? .............. You sound like my old adversary Crow..... No matter how 'careful' you enter the dog, one day you aint there to hold his hand. I totally agree ... But don't you agree that the better entered dog will do better ? ....... Not necessarily.... Lol ok I will re phrase it ... The better entered dog will have a better chance of making the grade ...... 'SHOULD'.... the better entered dog 'should' have a better chance of making the grade Ken but not always... IMO plenty of blame when a dog ain't suitable is the fact that the owner chose the wrong dog for the wrong job in the first place, never mind training the poor fecker, it stood no chance from the off and that is why it really boils my piss when folk 'recommend' a cross (or crosses), not a type on here for novices looking to own their first working lurcher, you could be the best fecking Cesar Woodhouse trainer in the world but if your mutt don't suit your fecked BUT back to subject.... Some dogs are simply bred poor and no matter what you put in 'em, when the chips are down they are simply not up to the job... Totally agree and I know where you are comming from but one man can't have dog after dog that's poorly bred surely there has to be a time when its the mans fault ........ No Ken they can't, plenty of feckers that both can't train and can't keep and though I agree with you on the 'poor trainer' bit too, sad to say but in many cases the dog IS the problem... Lets not forget, no other dog is so varied in its breeding, no other dog is so varied in its work, no other dog is so prized amongst idiot hunters... It ain't all gonna be a fairy story now is it.... Quote Link to post
killing crew 2,708 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 We all know people who go through dogs like baw and the brick go through user names ... There are plenty of them on here ... So is it down to their lack of abilities as a trainer that they can't get the best out of a dog or is it that their standards are very high and if a dog doesn't make the grade then it doesn't stay ??? ... I don't know whether I am a half decent trainer or I have very low standards lol but I have been fortunate over the years that I haven't had to move dogs on apart from injuries that stopped them working ......... il give you your ego boost for today. your the best socks 1 Quote Link to post
Sirius 1,391 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) Plenty of lads look at buying a dog as they would a car, but sadly when they get it they can't read the Haynes manual. Lol Nothing to do with the so called 'standards' they have read on the internet they just don't know the basics to even be able to try for that standard. So they end up with a succession of poor dogs which get sold on, one owner from new, spares or repair lol Edited December 17, 2013 by Sirius 1 Quote Link to post
socks 32,253 Posted December 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 We all know people who go through dogs like baw and the brick go through user names ... There are plenty of them on here ... So is it down to their lack of abilities as a trainer that they can't get the best out of a dog or is it that their standards are very high and if a dog doesn't make the grade then it doesn't stay ??? ... I don't know whether I am a half decent trainer or I have very low standards lol but I have been fortunate over the years that I haven't had to move dogs on apart from injuries that stopped them working ......... il give you your ego boost for today. your the best socks I don't need my ego stroking KC my dogs do that for me in the field every day but thank you anyway .......... 1 Quote Link to post
tjones3862 3,423 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 (edited) ive took1 or 10 dogs out in a season,,what don't belong to me,,, and gone about it in the right way. and to the best places... that helps,,,lol that's the main thing,, let them party all nite,,,lol and see what they are made of,, but not just lamping make,s a good dog,,,,,,, to me a jack of all trade a bit of feather and iff your looky a biy of scale,,,lol,...and to be honest some of them wud match mine no prob,s,,,,but when you leave the owner to his own device... the dogs back to how it was,,,,,,,,yapping jacking,,,,,thats a lottery,,,,but iff the dog has not got them problem,s,, and hit full on for work,,,, then only the owner will let hit down,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Edited December 17, 2013 by tjones3862 2 Quote Link to post
TheDeal 63 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 We all know people who go through dogs like baw and the brick go through user names ... There are plenty of them on here ... So is it down to their lack of abilities as a trainer that they can't get the best out of a dog or is it that their standards are very high and if a dog doesn't make the grade then it doesn't stay ??? ... I don't know whether I am a half decent trainer or I have very low standards lol but I have been fortunate over the years that I haven't had to move dogs on apart from injuries that stopped them working .........I'd say you train and enter your dogs properley but I remember a long time ago when your black bitch started yapping when chasing roe I think so I guess in the end its down to the do I've seen dogs not well trained or even well fed or exercised make very good dogs and I've put time into dogs and they was useless all comes down to the dog Quote Link to post
bird 9,927 Posted December 17, 2013 Report Share Posted December 17, 2013 In my opinion,...it is all down to what quarry you are after... Personaly,..I only want to locate and catch a few rabbits,..nothing more...and my standards are extremely low.. But,.if I had a yen to take up, more robust disciplines such as racing, coursing,.foxing or chasing the deer,..then I would try and find a lurcher,.. capable of the job. It is illogical to compare one type of dog with another type,..and even more foolish to think that as hunters,.we are all alike,..and require the same thing. These debates could go on and on,.ad-infinitum,...and it is surely possible within such a unique hunting man's website, to seperate,..once and for all,.the dyed in the wool, rabbiters/ferrets/netsmen,..from the lads who specialise,.and love 'other pursuits'.... In doing so,.it would prevent so much needless confusion.... spot on, getting the right dog for the quarry you hunt?, and having the heart for that job to me is the most important thing. that could be running 30-60 runs on rabbits, killing foxes when ever need be, or pulling a fallow buck or knocking over few daytime hares pre ban , all need heart for these jobs ,and if its not there you never be happy with dog or dogs . Quote Link to post
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