Retrieving Problems...

[skycat 6,173]

Teaching the word 'fetch' is very important. A lot of dogs retrieve balls and dummies that you throw for them, but once they have caught a rabbit, all that goes out the window. This is why it is so important to instil the 'fetch' command from the start. Using the 'fetch' command each and every time the dog picks something up to bring it to you should mean that the moment the dog hears that word, it brings you the thing, be it rabbit or ball.

 

I've made this mistake a few times: forgetting to put the 'fetch' word into the dog's vocabulary, especially with pups that seem to love fetching whatever I throw for them: you tend to take it for granted that the dog will automatically fetch the rabbit it has caught, but going after a live animal is something altogether different to fetching a ball.

 

On the one hand you have an inanimate object (ball) that belongs to you, which you throw for the dog, and it brings it back to do it again cos it's fun ... then you have the predator chasing and catching a live animal, which has sod all to do with you. Now you have the possessiveness that comes with chasing and killing, as well as no idea that this wild animal belongs to you, the owner.

 

Putting the word 'fetch' into the whole exercise, using dead rabbits to train and not just balls and dummies makes life a whole lot easier, and the dog, when it comes to actually running and catching live rabbits, will already have the framework in place to do what you want: retrieve the rabbit it has caught. Sure, it's quite normal for a young dog to get on a high with the first caught rabbit, but once it hears you call 'fetch', it eventually comes back to earth, and if you're training has been thorough enough, the mental conditioning to bring back on hearing the word 'fetch', accompanied by much praise when the dog does it, should kick in. That's the general idea anyway.

[birddog 1,354]

thinking about my previous post, 30yrs ago it just seemed like commonsense to do it that way, now i understand more a dogs thinking ( just a little bit)......whilst mine was bringing balls etc back he was doing it for him, ie he brings ball back......... i throw it......... more fun, what i had done was turn this around by reinforcing the 'fetch command' so he got his reward, the fun part, whether it be a treat or praise by doing what i said, in retrospect i had probably been a wee bit easy to please with his initial puppy training and a little to keen to catch things, i've learned over the years and mistakes that a little patience when they're young pays big dividends and saves loads of heartache and hard work later,....... by playing these different hide, stay fetch games i now realise that your also building / strenghtening the bonding process which then helps with further training a wee bit down the line

[skycat 6,173]

Spot on Birddog. The things we did, the time spent on training, messing about, teaching pups the meanings of different words: I wonder if youngsters today are in too much of a hurry to get out in the field and do the actual hunting, without spending that invaluable time. Or do they just not gain the same amount of fun just from messing about with their dogs? Is it just a chore to be got through as fast as possible so they can go hunting? I do wonder if the way youngsters view dogs, interact with them, has changed quite a bit over the years. Or is it that humans are just getting further and further removed from being around dogs as kids? Do they have no one to give them any guidance at all?

 

I grew up with my dads Labradors, which, whilst they were good enough workers, were also family pets, and the way he behaved around them rubbed off on me? I couldn't bear a dog that wouldn't retrieve, and different dogs respond to different methods of training: there is a key to unlock every dog's ability to retrieve, and it is a matter of figuring out what works with each dog.

[BORDERSCOT 3,816]

thinking about my previous post, 30yrs ago it just seemed like commonsense to do it that way, now i understand more a dogs thinking ( just a little bit)......whilst mine was bringing balls etc back he was doing it for him, ie he brings ball back......... i throw it......... more fun, what i had done was turn this around by reinforcing the 'fetch command' so he got his reward, the fun part, whether it be a treat or praise by doing what i said, in retrospect i had probably been a wee bit easy to please with his initial puppy training and a little to keen to catch things, i've learned over the years and mistakes that a little patience when they're young pays big dividends and saves loads of heartache and hard work later,....... by playing these different hide, stay fetch games i now realise that your also building / strenghtening the bonding process which then helps with further training a wee bit down the line

 

 

Spot on Birddog. The things we did, the time spent on training, messing about, teaching pups the meanings of different words: I wonder if youngsters today are in too much of a hurry to get out in the field and do the actual hunting, without spending that invaluable time. Or do they just not gain the same amount of fun just from messing about with their dogs? Is it just a chore to be got through as fast as possible so they can go hunting? I do wonder if the way youngsters view dogs, interact with them, has changed quite a bit over the years. Or is it that humans are just getting further and further removed from being around dogs as kids? Do they have no one to give them any guidance at all?

 

I grew up with my dads Labradors, which, whilst they were good enough workers, were also family pets, and the way he behaved around them rubbed off on me? I couldn't bear a dog that wouldn't retrieve, and different dogs respond to different methods of training: there is a key to unlock every dog's ability to retrieve, and it is a matter of figuring out what works with each dog.

 

You two are ancient.....

[paulsmithy83 567]

Funny tho lots of dogs even from pups will never fetch balls bottles toys. My saluki has never had interest in anything dead to retrieve. So no fetch being taught there lol but no need to panic . I always play tug with pups and drill that *hold* command. Good way to train as there having fun and Great way to bond as dog in drive which is what it will be in field. Also to be safe train *dead* command as a release command to be safe. It's a way my fam have trained the retrieve for all the generations and I can only think of 1 dog out of say 20 that hasn't retrieved properly to hand none of this drop 10 feet away crap

[birddog 1,354]

skycat, when i come in the door from work my two are sitting in the hall waiting, they know that they don't get a hello before they're calm and sitting, i usually give them a paper or sandwich box or the like to carry in, usually to a named family member so that its not robotic and they have to think a wee bit, i get a wee kick out of training them wee party tricks like speak or smile, the rangers paw (right) and celtic paw (left) is always a winner. for the genuine guys with problems i never mind helping or hassle because (borderscot) i'm not that old that i can't remember being that keen and enthusiastic................now where did i put my zimmer

[skycat 6,173]

 

thinking about my previous post, 30yrs ago it just seemed like commonsense to do it that way, now i understand more a dogs thinking ( just a little bit)......whilst mine was bringing balls etc back he was doing it for him, ie he brings ball back......... i throw it......... more fun, what i had done was turn this around by reinforcing the 'fetch command' so he got his reward, the fun part, whether it be a treat or praise by doing what i said, in retrospect i had probably been a wee bit easy to please with his initial puppy training and a little to keen to catch things, i've learned over the years and mistakes that a little patience when they're young pays big dividends and saves loads of heartache and hard work later,....... by playing these different hide, stay fetch games i now realise that your also building / strenghtening the bonding process which then helps with further training a wee bit down the line

 

 

Spot on Birddog. The things we did, the time spent on training, messing about, teaching pups the meanings of different words: I wonder if youngsters today are in too much of a hurry to get out in the field and do the actual hunting, without spending that invaluable time. Or do they just not gain the same amount of fun just from messing about with their dogs? Is it just a chore to be got through as fast as possible so they can go hunting? I do wonder if the way youngsters view dogs, interact with them, has changed quite a bit over the years. Or is it that humans are just getting further and further removed from being around dogs as kids? Do they have no one to give them any guidance at all?

 

I grew up with my dads Labradors, which, whilst they were good enough workers, were also family pets, and the way he behaved around them rubbed off on me? I couldn't bear a dog that wouldn't retrieve, and different dogs respond to different methods of training: there is a key to unlock every dog's ability to retrieve, and it is a matter of figuring out what works with each dog.

 

You two are ancient.....

 

Ever so ancient: trouble is, I tend to forget what I learned long ago sometimes Then I get reminded of it when I see threads like this Complacency is a terrible thing.

[Mustelid 143]

Some fantastic replies guys, thanks very much.

 

You're right Penny... he would bring a ball or dummy back, but the 'fetch' command clearly isn't in there.

 

So... how would you guys proceed in my position? How would you teach 'hold' and 'fetch' to a dog that is 17 months old?

 

I'm not the most competent trainer but I am keen!!! I also keep spaniels and manage to get them to a reasonable standard. However, I've had two poor retrieving spaniels in the past year and the retrieving issue really is my achilles heel... I can never seem to get it sorted unless they're naturals. I sold one spaniel that would spit balls/dummies out two feet from me to a mate. He's got him retrieving brilliantly. I tried the forced retrieve method and it wasn't for me so I sold him cheap as we couldn't get on - my mate is likely to compete in trials with him this season. The other spaniel was one I bred and she too would spit a ball out - I gave her to my sister as a pet!

[Sam H 80]

Think i have a litter brother to yours mate, mine showed no interest in any dummies toys or anything i tried him on but he retrieves lamped rabbits hes caught at distance or out of sight, hes the first dog iv had with collie in and i expected him to be a natural obviously wasn't the case and i wasn't a patient enough trainer. I can live with not retrieving consistently as long as he keeps catching lol. Good look with yours anyway pal.

[Mustelid 143]

Joe... you're right I did give up with two spaniels. However, I gave up because ideal homes were just around the corner and I had another pup here that's much better. The lurcher is a different case... he's not going anywhere.

 

I've just come in from five minutes 'hold training' with a tennis ball. He wasn't keen initially to have the ball placed in his mouth but we got there eventually!

[skycat 6,173]

Sent you a pm

[beast 1,884]

there are loads of ideas and theories and methods to training a reluctant retriever. sometimes its down to a fault in the training, sometimes down to the individual dog. in essence there are really two techniques; rely on the dog WANTING to carry, or MAKING the dog carry. the first would be how most of us train the retrieve, in other words playing with the dog in some way (and that includes tug training) and making the retrieve FUN. the problem with this is that sometimes a dog which makes the choice to carry can also make the choice NOT to carry, and they sometimes develop funny habits (like only carrying in certain circumstances or certain quarry, or live prey but not dummies) or even refuse all together. the second method is perhaps harder to train, but police, service dogs, performing dogs, dogs in adverts etc etc all use this method because it is reliable, that is to say a dog which is compelled to carry will think that it is always the case and will never learn that it can refuse.

its difficult though when you have started to train a dog by play and it goes wrong, because no matter what form of compulsion you use to force-train, the dog still knows that ultimately it has an option.

 

heres and idea you can try, no guarantees!!

 

walk the dog on a fairly loose lead in a familiar spot, slowly and calmly, and have a rabbit skin or dead rabbit in your hand. tease the dog gently until it grabs the skin, even for a second, then plenty of praise, if it will old while you rag the skin about and grip harder then great. but you need to teach it to let go when you say, and if you are tough about this then the dog may refuse to bite at all, so this would be one of the few times in training i might consider food as an exchange, the other option is a second dummy. the dog needs to let go not because it is being told off, but because it learns something better is coming.

once the dog will let go on cpmmand, you can get it to grab more fully and engage with you through the dummy, and gradually give it more length of rope to have freedom. get the dog to carry the dummy a few steps without you touching it, then throw it a few steps in front and i bet the dog will retrieve it. these are first steps and might take days or weeks, but you should get to the point where the dog will happily walk at the end of say a 10 foot line holding the dummy for maybe 20-30 yards. if it drops it before you are ready then stop, crouch down, and make excited noises, if the dog runs to you without the dummy then stand up and turn your back and ignore, it should then go get the dummy because it will realise that is the way to engage with you and have a good time.

next step is dropping the lead, then lead off etc

 

just realised what a load i've written, sorry! hope it makes some sort of sense and hope it works for you!