Bull Type Dogs

[gnasher16 30,531]

 

 

heart is now so high in some lurchers that they will literally run themselves to death if allowed to. so its not just a trait confined to fighting dogs.

 

Very different kind of " heart " though mate im sure you would agree........not that the traits isnt just as impressive in a Lurcher.

 

its a trait carried over from the bull so why would it be different. would a pit not run itself to the ground chasing something that ran rather than faced

 

Of course it wouldnt..................it wasnt selectively bred for generations to chase it was bred to fight and if it quit in a fight its a cur.................if it quit chasing a hare who f****n cares !!!

 

Heart/gameness call it what you will.......a running dog may quit on lung power a fighting dog has a hundred and one reasons to quit......nothing can be compared to the direct physical and mental punishment a fighting dog takes.

[keepdiggin 9,561]

where its legal a terrier working badger can be very brutal and takes a level of gameness.

[Hot Meat 3,109]

Some greyhounds and non bullx lurchers will run to the bitter end, I think that's the trait we exaggerated into running dogs and not gameness

[bird 10,000]

Some greyhounds and non bullx lurchers will run to the bitter end, I think that's the trait we exaggerated into running dogs and not gameness

 

true with greyhounds, i helped at a racing kenels for 3 months, and some of the dogs just training were like feckin nutters lol on the lure.alot of greyhounds will burn them selves out, put bit of pit in there as well and there the same. had bitsa bitch whippetx gry +? was like above.!

[paulus 26]

 

 

 

heart is now so high in some lurchers that they will literally run themselves to death if allowed to. so its not just a trait confined to fighting dogs.

 

Very different kind of " heart " though mate im sure you would agree........not that the traits isnt just as impressive in a Lurcher.

 

its a trait carried over from the bull so why would it be different. would a pit not run itself to the ground chasing something that ran rather than faced

 

Of course it wouldnt..................it wasnt selectively bred for generations to chase it was bred to fight and if it quit in a fight its a cur.................if it quit chasing a hare who f****n cares !!!

 

Heart/gameness call it what you will.......a running dog may quit on lung power a fighting dog has a hundred and one reasons to quit......nothing can be compared to the direct physical and mental punishment a fighting dog takes.

 

nothing to do with lack of lung its the point where the dog has used every bit of glucose in its body and the muscles have worked that much that they are starting to break themselves down to continue the chase as there is not enough time for it to convert its fat reserves into sugar, most dogs will pull up but them with heart gameness call it what you will don't, they continue until they catch or collapse after the body gives up if a catch is made it then still has to find the energy to deal with its prey

[paulus 26]

Some greyhounds and non bullx lurchers will run to the bitter end, I think that's the trait we exaggerated into running dogs and not gameness

if gameness is only found in bulls then surely only physical differences would make a winner or loser but that is as we both know is not true so whatever it is all dogs don't posses it and if thats the case then it can not be restricted to a single breed but rather as you say a trait in particular individuals

[Casso 1,261]

Must admit most of that went over the top of my head i dont think some things need to be overthought or overcomplicated..............gameness is not a natural trait,its not natural for a dog to take their death trying to come out victorious in battle hence once the initial threat display is over and the fur starts to fly 99% of dogs will say " f**k this im a survivor im outta here "...........the tiny % of dogs that embrace pain and suffering in order to win got that mentality from years and years of selective breeding by man heightening those traits to the point that they reproduce themselves.

 

I dont think that necessarily CAUSES decline in other traits but its common sense to think that if gameness has been the trait chosen to breed for above all else........then other less important traits will have been overlooked.

The problem with what your implying about game ness not been natural is that at some stage on varies continents throughout history varies people bred from 2 curs and produced game offspring ,?? if Gameness is not in the natural world how the hell did they manage to get game pups from common curs??

[Hot Meat 3,109]

The way I see it is, wild dogs, wolf's are brave they have to be to defend territories and feed there young and themselves, we as man have just bred the bravest to the bravest we had available, an in turn exaggerated it till it become game in the sense we know today, same could be said about sprinters, scent hounds, pointers and many other breeds we have created.

[trenchfoot 4,243]

Game ness in a dog bred for the pit is far removed from anything a wild critter would need as an attribute to survive. If any fight were to get to that level, they would seek any opportunity to leg it to safety. Not come back up to scratch. Drive/fight and flight are both needed to survive. Any critter that was that game in the wild, would more than likely be snuffed out before it was able to pass on that attribute to its progeny. The bull breeds were created by man. And then ruined by the same

[keepdiggin 9,561]

Game ness in a dog bred for the pit is far removed from anything a wild critter would need as an attribute to survive. If any fight were to get to that level, they would seek any opportunity to leg it to safety. Not come back up to scratch. Drive/fight and flight are both needed to survive. Any critter that was that game in the wild, would more than likely be snuffed out before it was able to pass on that attribute to its progeny. The bull breeds were created by man. And then ruined by the same

Good post mate, when a terrier is battling with a wild animal and losses' its jaw in the battle but still carries on is that not gameness? terriers have fought to the their death with quarry would that not be dead game? genuine question?

[Casso 1,261]

Game ness in a dog bred for the pit is far removed from anything a wild critter would need as an attribute to survive. If any fight were to get to that level, they would seek any opportunity to leg it to safety. Not come back up to scratch. Drive/fight and flight are both needed to survive. Any critter that was that game in the wild, would more than likely be snuffed out before it was able to pass on that attribute to its progeny. The bull breeds were created by man. And then ruined by the same

Game ness in a dog bred for the pit is far removed from anything a wild critter would need as an attribute to survive. If any fight were to get to that level, they would seek any opportunity to leg it to safety. Not come back up to scratch. Drive/fight and flight are both needed to survive. Any critter that was that game in the wild, would more than likely be snuffed out before it was able to pass on that attribute to its progeny. The bull breeds were created by man. And then ruined by the same

Where is game ness from then , can you just create it??

[trenchfoot 4,243]

 

Game ness in a dog bred for the pit is far removed from anything a wild critter would need as an attribute to survive. If any fight were to get to that level, they would seek any opportunity to leg it to safety. Not come back up to scratch. Drive/fight and flight are both needed to survive. Any critter that was that game in the wild, would more than likely be snuffed out before it was able to pass on that attribute to its progeny. The bull breeds were created by man. And then ruined by the same

 

Good post mate, when a terrier is battling with a wild animal and losses' its jaw in the battle but still carries on is that not gameness? terriers have fought to the their death with quarry would that not be dead game? genuine question?

True, they are game little earth dogs, but if pressed that hard in the open, not in a block end, would they try and exit stage left? Or maybe that's the difference between a good bayer and a good slayer A game bull should seek to go on, and hard what ever.

[bobcullen79 1,495]

For anyone to seriously suggest that all bull breeds should be banned is just plain stupid IMO. The difference is that when a bull breed does attack, its plastered all over the media, it fits into the view of the ignorant who think that bull breeds are only kept by scum and that they are toy sized werewolves, ready to kill with a blood lust fury. I would never leave my staff alone with any child, not because I don't trust my dog, because I don't trust children. The sad fact is that some parents let their children pull, bully and harass the family pet until it finally snaps and unfortunately the parents that allow this are quite often the idiots that have staffs, because of their image.

 

My dog has been attacked by two spaniels, owned by the, my wellies cost £200 but I haven't got a clue brigade and two rotties owned by a chap in a bandanna, roller blading, a full on Ceaser Millan wanna be. My dog just stood there, expecting me to protect her, which I did. She has been humped by a big old lab of the wellie brigade as well whilst the owner stood around finding it funny,(just as well my dog is more tolerant than me). My staff has been more tolerant of badly mannered dogs and their owners than you would believe but if she had of snapped you can bet that the local rag front page would have been...................staffy attacks spaniel....................that's all I've got to say about that

I know him.. He did used to live in Gosport, but moved over there.. He`s not a bad guy to be fair, them rotti`s we`re rescues, he got them at 8 months, kept in crates, drinking from water bottles.. The original owners bought them for a pair of 8yr old twin girls birthday present. As soon as they got big the family crated them and kept them in the garden. So you cant knock him really. But yeah, if Ceaser was about, he`d prob try and shag his leg..

[trenchfoot 4,243]

 

Game ness in a dog bred for the pit is far removed from anything a wild critter would need as an attribute to survive. If any fight were to get to that level, they would seek any opportunity to leg it to safety. Not come back up to scratch. Drive/fight and flight are both needed to survive. Any critter that was that game in the wild, would more than likely be snuffed out before it was able to pass on that attribute to its progeny. The bull breeds were created by man. And then ruined by the same

Game ness in a dog bred for the pit is far removed from anything a wild critter would need as an attribute to survive. If any fight were to get to that level, they would seek any opportunity to leg it to safety. Not come back up to scratch. Drive/fight and flight are both needed to survive. Any critter that was that game in the wild, would more than likely be snuffed out before it was able to pass on that attribute to its progeny. The bull breeds were created by man. And then ruined by the same

Where is game ness from then , can you just create it??

If you class gameness as a genetic trait, then it's the same as stamina or intelligence. It's out there in the gene pool of all dogs in greater or smaller amounts. Man has tested and selectively bred certain breeds for gameness to magnify that attribute. Wether you class that as creation is down to your own ego

Edited November 14, 2013 by trenchfoot

[Huan72 687]

 

For anyone to seriously suggest that all bull breeds should be banned is just plain stupid IMO. The difference is that when a bull breed does attack, its plastered all over the media, it fits into the view of the ignorant who think that bull breeds are only kept by scum and that they are toy sized werewolves, ready to kill with a blood lust fury. I would never leave my staff alone with any child, not because I don't trust my dog, because I don't trust children. The sad fact is that some parents let their children pull, bully and harass the family pet until it finally snaps and unfortunately the parents that allow this are quite often the idiots that have staffs, because of their image.

 

My dog has been attacked by two spaniels, owned by the, my wellies cost £200 but I haven't got a clue brigade and two rotties owned by a chap in a bandanna, roller blading, a full on Ceaser Millan wanna be. My dog just stood there, expecting me to protect her, which I did. She has been humped by a big old lab of the wellie brigade as well whilst the owner stood around finding it funny,(just as well my dog is more tolerant than me). My staff has been more tolerant of badly mannered dogs and their owners than you would believe but if she had of snapped you can bet that the local rag front page would have been...................staffy attacks spaniel....................that's all I've got to say about that

I know him.. He did used to live in Gosport, but moved over there.. He`s not a bad guy to be fair, them rotti`s we`re rescues, he got them at 8 months, kept in crates, drinking from water bottles.. The original owners bought them for a pair of 8yr old twin girls birthday present. As soon as they got big the family crated them and kept them in the garden. So you cant knock him really. But yeah, if Ceaser was about, he`d prob try and shag his leg..

 

See, I wasn't making it up! Fair play to the bloke though for having the dogs..............................................he was bloody good on those roller blades too