Ships.

[gonetoearth 5,144]

I'm not English... That's what get's on my tits too, the UK is made up of 4 countries, not 2..

The reason I get involved is because I care about the Scottish people I know.. I have no alleigence to your hill and glens, but I have a Scottish wife who's family I consider my own. I also have several very good Scottish friends.. I am concerned what Scotland's independence will mean for the people I know and love.. I firmly believe that Independance under Salmond will lead to the biggest nanny state and the most tightly controlled population in the western world. You've seen what happened to the UK under labours rule, why do you think it will be any different with Salmond and his lot up there?

I also like being part of a union of countries punching above their weight on the world stage. The likes of the Germans and French must be rubbing their hands in glee at the possibility of Scotland going its own way. We stand strong in Europe together, far stronger than we would apart. We have achieved so much together and shaped the course of world history between our 4 nations. To throw all that away for the sake of a fat man's vanity and a few repeats of Braveheart would be a travesty..

Then there's the selfish part of me that thinks a Scotlandless UK would cause a shift in the balance of politics. Without Scotland helping to balance things, my country and the working class areas of England would forever be at the mercy of the south east. After a few decades of voting and having no effect, my country could be forced into considering its own position, further weakening us and leaving us all open to being swallowed up by an ever expanding United States of Europe.. Like it or not, globalisation is taking place and each region is fast becoming nothing more than a constituent part of a greater whole and we loose more and more freedoms all the time. Why make it easier for those who seek to control us all?

. GIVE THAT MAN A CIGAR

[Joe67 239]

I'm not English... That's what get's on my tits too, the UK is made up of 4 countries, not 2..

 

The reason I get involved is because I care about the Scottish people I know.. I have no alleigence to your hill and glens, but I have a Scottish wife who's family I consider my own. I also have several very good Scottish friends.. I am concerned what Scotland's independence will mean for the people I know and love.. I firmly believe that Independance under Salmond will lead to the biggest nanny state and the most tightly controlled population in the western world. You've seen what happened to the UK under labours rule, why do you think it will be any different with Salmond and his lot up there?

 

I also like being part of a union of countries punching above their weight on the world stage. The likes of the Germans and French must be rubbing their hands in glee at the possibility of Scotland going its own way. We stand strong in Europe together, far stronger than we would apart. We have achieved so much together and shaped the course of world history between our 4 nations. To throw all that away for the sake of a fat man's vanity and a few repeats of Braveheart would be a travesty..

 

Then there's the selfish part of me that thinks a Scotlandless UK would cause a shift in the balance of politics. Without Scotland helping to balance things, my country and the working class areas of England would forever be at the mercy of the south east. After a few decades of voting and having no effect, my country could be forced into considering its own position, further weakening us and leaving us all open to being swallowed up by an ever expanding United States of Europe.. Like it or not, globalisation is taking place and each region is fast becoming nothing more than a constituent part of a greater whole and we loose more and more freedoms all the time. Why make it easier for those who seek to control us all?

good post mate, even though i dont agree with you, if there was a like option id hit it.

 

a yes vote is not for any party or salmond, everyone keeps going on about there hate for salmond... the vote is for independence, independence is about gaining the power to make our country as good as it can be. the ability to make choices

[Born Hunter 17,775]

its shite saying scotland will have no money, cant pay for this cant pay for that. lets say scotland does vote yes, lets turn the table... you think the rest of uk will pay for everything with no problem, upkeep of armys, ships, trident and everything else in the three countrys and scotland will turn into a third world country without uk? cmon...

 

I didn't say you would have no money I said you wouldn't be able to afford a submarine fleet.

 

The modest fleet of astute class subs clocked in at £7B. Will the £2.5B a year cover the procurement cost? Or will you look at the second hand market? Or as I suggested not bother as it's just too expensive?

[Malt 379]

good post mate, even though i dont agree with you, if there was a like option id hit it.

 

a yes vote is not for any party or salmond, everyone keeps going on about there hate for salmond... the vote is for independence, independence is about gaining the power to make our country as good as it can be. the ability to make choices

I'm sorry mate, but I just can't agree with the part about it being all about independance.. It's about a man and his cronies trying to use nationalism to carve out a kingdom for themselves to rule over because they ain't quite good enough to cut it on the biggest stage.. I believe what you and others like you want for your country is being used as a political tool, nothing more..

[Joe67 239]

 

its shite saying scotland will have no money, cant pay for this cant pay for that. lets say scotland does vote yes, lets turn the table... you think the rest of uk will pay for everything with no problem, upkeep of armys, ships, trident and everything else in the three countrys and scotland will turn into a third world country without uk? cmon...

I didn't say you would have no money I said you wouldn't be able to afford a submarine fleet.

 

The modest fleet of astute class subs clocked in at £7B. Will the £2.5B a year cover the procurement cost? Or will you look at the second hand market? Or as I suggested not bother as it's just too expensive?

 

hey if we are asked to share the debit etc that comes with the split whos to say we wont get our share of subs that we chiped in for we might need to, uk will probaly struggle to pay for everything it has without scotland

[scothunter 12,609]

well said malt

[Born Hunter 17,775]

 

 

its shite saying scotland will have no money, cant pay for this cant pay for that. lets say scotland does vote yes, lets turn the table... you think the rest of uk will pay for everything with no problem, upkeep of armys, ships, trident and everything else in the three countrys and scotland will turn into a third world country without uk? cmon...

I didn't say you would have no money I said you wouldn't be able to afford a submarine fleet.

 

The modest fleet of astute class subs clocked in at £7B. Will the £2.5B a year cover the procurement cost? Or will you look at the second hand market? Or as I suggested not bother as it's just too expensive?

 

hey if we are asked to share the debit etc that comes with the split whos to say we wont get our share of subs that we chiped in for we might need to, uk will probaly struggle to pay for everything it has without scotland

 

 

UK spending on defence is over £35B annualy.........the Scottish contribution in that is £3B. You want half a sub? LOL

 

And you keep trying with the digs that the UK will be worse off without Scotland.......... of course we will! Why do you think I'm against it! LOL. The four of us stand together unified and strong, I see no 'winners' as independent states.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Born Hunter

[Joe67 239]

Fair one, maybe a subway?

 

 

Scotland’s contribution to UK defence spending is around £3.3billion. Experts from the Royal United Services Institute have confirmed that this would be more than enough to support a defence force that could be “extraordinarily good” by 2030.The UK Government only spend around £2 billion of the defence budget in Scotland

 

Maybe we wont have any subs overnight, i guess theres more important things to spend £ on. Not to say it will never happen, one step at a time

[Suzy Ross 236]

 

 

its shite saying scotland will have no money, cant pay for this cant pay for that. lets say scotland does vote yes, lets turn the table... you think the rest of uk will pay for everything with no problem, upkeep of armys, ships, trident and everything else in the three countrys and scotland will turn into a third world country without uk? cmon...

I didn't say you would have no money I said you wouldn't be able to afford a submarine fleet.

 

The modest fleet of astute class subs clocked in at £7B. Will the £2.5B a year cover the procurement cost? Or will you look at the second hand market? Or as I suggested not bother as it's just too expensive?

You don't half talk some shit born. Since you like googling statistics, can you tell me how much Britian BORROWS a day? We can't afford to sustain the money this governments spending the now never mind once we all break up. I'm against independence but if god forbid it happens, we will do what the rest of the UK currently do, borrow to the hilt and arrogantly look down our noses at poorer better run nations while we tuck into our spam sandwiches.

[Born Hunter 17,775]

 

 

its shite saying scotland will have no money, cant pay for this cant pay for that. lets say scotland does vote yes, lets turn the table... you think the rest of uk will pay for everything with no problem, upkeep of armys, ships, trident and everything else in the three countrys and scotland will turn into a third world country without uk? cmon...

I didn't say you would have no money I said you wouldn't be able to afford a submarine fleet.

 

The modest fleet of astute class subs clocked in at £7B. Will the £2.5B a year cover the procurement cost? Or will you look at the second hand market? Or as I suggested not bother as it's just too expensive?

You don't half talk some shit born. Since you like googling statistics, can you tell me how much Britian BORROWS a day? We can't afford to sustain the money this governments spending the now never mind once we all break up. I'm against independence but if god forbid it happens, we will do what the rest of the UK currently do, borrow to the hilt and arrogantly look down our noses at poorer better run nations while we tuck into our spam sandwiches.

 

 

Baw, rather than just tell me I talk shit please explain what in that quoted post is specifically shit?

 

And yeah, you're correct, google is a powerful tool to find good references for facts. If any of them are wrong, again please tell me. Rather than constantly trolling my posts trying to stir shite.

 

How much a country borrows doesn't matter a shite, it's how much you spend that is significant here and that has been quoted as £2.5B. Is that figure incorrect?

 

It could buy subs aye, but they'd not be a patch on what you have carrying out your defence needs now.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Born Hunter

[Suzy Ross 236]

Doesn't matter what we've spent in the past, that won't dictate what will be spent in the future if we become independent. Anyhow, Scotland hopefully will only need to defend these shores, not traipse all over the world trying to save every Muslim country with oil. As I said, if we can't afford what we need, we will just borrow borrow borrow.

[Suzy Ross 236]

And born, I'd rather you called me by my new username, you can shorten it to just Suzy if you like or suz, Baw is banned

[Born Hunter 17,775]

I have no doubt of that, but based on the figure of £2.5B quoted for future spending is small change for a serious 21st century submarine fleet and considering Scotlands dependance on off shore oil I'd of thought them to be considered pretty essential?

 

But yeah, you're right, you could have a tidy little defence force purely for defending home soil. But personally I'm proud of our current ability to be able to project our word just about anywhere in the world protecting any and all British interests and citizens not just defencively but offensively. For instance if a British Embassy is under threat anywhere in the world we can act immediately, I just don't see how Scotland alone could do that.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Born Hunter

[Born Hunter 17,775]

And born, I'd rather you called me by my new username, you can shorten it to just Suzy if you like or suz, Baw is banned

 

What about 'Suzy sweetheart'?

[Suzy Ross 236]

I have no doubt of that, but based on the figure of £2.5B quoted for future spending is small change for a serious 21st century submarine fleet and considering Scotlands dependance on off shore oil I'd of thought them to be considered pretty essential?

 

But yeah, you're right, you could have a tidy little defence force purely for defending home soil. But personally I'm proud of our current ability to be able to project our word just about anywhere in the world protecting any and all British interests and citizens not just defencively but offensively. For instance if a British Embassy is under threat anywhere in the world we can act immediately, I just don't see how Scotland alone could do that.

For once I agree with you. I don't want the union split up but it just irks me to listen to English guys like yourself talk about BRITIANS armed forces as if they are englands.