Springer Refusing To Retreive

[The celtic warrior 0]

Hi all,

I am looking for a bit of advice on training my dog to retreive. She is sitting and staying but refuses to retreive point blank.I have a dummy made up from a rabbit skin and she just runs off with it each time and when i call her back she returns without the dummy, any advice on how to solve this situation would be greatly appreciated

[GEOFF.223 83]

What age?

 

Will it retrieve a ball ok?

[The celtic warrior 0]

She is twelve months old. Yeah she brings a ball back fine mate

[skycat 6,173]

The ball is a low value play item: the rabbit skin dummy is a high value item that resembles prey: which is why the dog becomes possessive over it. You need to go back to basics starting with a furry toy, then an old dried rabbit skin, but you also need to teach the dog that 'everything' is yours, not the dog's. I've sent you a pm.

[paulus 26]

start in a confined area like an entry so the dog has limitation on where it can go

[ftm 3,357]

Paulus is right -- make a scenario where the dog cant run around with it i.e alley way or any narrow passage way & sky cat hit the nail on the head with dogs prey drive - you have got to become the best thing since sliced bread to your dog where as giving you the dummy etc is reward in itself [your praise /fuss /treat ] you will get there im sure -but im sure you know not to give to many retrieves in a single session ?

[Philluk 181]

some good points above but be aware of body language there was a good point when someone wrote about fireworks and how we react and dogs pick up on it. again I will repeat what I have put on here many times about stages.

 

does the dog on whistle: sit - stay - recall? on the recall does the dog come to you? if your thinking then the answer is no - make the dog sit with whistle in mouth walk 20 paces away keep your back to the dog blow recall turn head slightly so you can see out of the corner of your eye if she is coming turn round and ensure the dog comes to you and sits just in front of you. Not 3 feet away, not to the side, in front now you may have to walk back a few feet but keep blowing and stop when you think she will get it right then praise. now the dog understands the recall is to come to you not to come in your direction, and every time you recall make sure it ends in her sitting in front of you. This must mastered before you do the retrieve. you can throw something not a ball (a ball is soft and they will bite into it and this could make a hard mouth) but get a dummy small one for her to use. or a sock with a piece of wood, or a toy from pets at home anything at this stage to show its learning play. I refer to my first line what is important is your voice if you throw a ball and use a high pitch voice she gets - plays and brings back, you now throw a skin dummy and you demand it back rough voice and you tell her to bring it back she will drop it and be scared to touch it so be aware.

 

so you must be aware what you say and how you say it, if you throw it and send her off giving the point and the command when she gets there and fails to retrieve use the high pitch voice walk towards her and say "get it then" or fetch" once she picks it up, tell her good girl and walk back to where you started let her carry it round to start just to get confidence back and if she drops it as much as you want to ring her neck smile do the same thing and walk towards it and if you get there and she has not got it kick it and do it again, but be aware this on its own can become a game so be aware.

 

couple of points at this stage don't use a dummy you made out of skin, it could be too close to live game a small puppy dummy light weight is fine or make sure its lost all smells of rabbit.

DO NOT give a treat when she brings it back.

Do not raise your voice any louder than you talk to the wife when she asks if you want a coffee

No more than 10 mins retrieving in each session.

Always finish on a high ie she does a retrieve well.

remember that high voice you may sound like a pillock but who cares its the most important tool you have and you can make or break with it.

 

Enjoy

[Nik_B 3,790]

I think the dog sees the rabbit fur as the prize and isn't thinking what it is going to get in return for bringing it back. It doesn't have to be treats but you could use them to make the dog realise that bringing the retrieve back might produce something even better. Sometimes treats other times loads of praise or a squeeky toy. The treats will slow be cut out with Ollie but I need to maintain the excitement for him. It was explained to me that it's just building up memories of high excitement in their brains so when they hear the whistle all they can think of is running back to you.

[Philluk 181]

Treats:

 

lets be clear there is a small place for training with treats but not in the field these are my reasons - if you use treats you are saying here is a biscuit, if you do this you will get this. so the dog has 2 choices do it and get a treat or don't do it, the dog may not want the treat, or what the dog is doing is better than the treat. If you say to a dog fetch this and you will get a treat the dog will do it for the treat he will go fetch and spit it out expecting the treat.

 

Now there could be a place in the home where you want to teach a trick or useful command, when im out with my dog on the deer I see a deer I needed a command I cant talk, so if I put my hand out fingers up he will sit, if I then point to the ground he will lie and I can walk off for up to 20 mins and he will not move, I taught this in the house and to start with it was treat based.

 

In the field to start with get the bond with your dog and he will retrieve for 3 reasons, firstly because that is what they are born for and a spaniel by default will carry something we don't teach that, we just educate them to do it right and to command, 2nd because you as the boss have told him to, the command fetch and lastly because he wants to please his master and the only treat he wants is to be told he is good with a loving pat.

 

squeaky toys are not a good idea - if the dog has one in his mouth to make it squeak he has to bite into it to make the squeak he could do that with real game or a dummy.

 

I was out at a beach in the summer and my bitch had just come out of season and a big black lab came over followed by the owner who had a bag around her and this big black fat lab was sticking his nose up my bitch, I stopped so the lady who was calling chased after her dog with a biscuit in her hand trying to get his attention and to make the dog follow her hand and the dog is like **** off this smell is much better than a biscuit. I whistle once and my dog instantly sits the lady grabs her dog, ive never so much as shouted at mine.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Philluk

[Casso 1,261]

Nik Makes a good point about memories of high excitement in the dogs mind in association with its owner , what I refer to as physical memories,

 

Physical memories are ingrained in canines firstly from a survival point of view and in turn become how a dog relates to the positive in its environment ,

 

it interprets from past memories and projects them into the present moment , which is why a nervous dog is more likely to come to its owner when they crouch down because a correction or confrontation is less likely to have occurred with its owner while in that position,

 

Its also a case of memories coming into play with a dog with a high value item in its possession, it needs a foundation of positive interaction with its owner in high excitement and this just doesn't start in the field , it's from puppyhood on

 

So when we start to lay down a frame work of training a dog to do a certain action, in many cases the activity itself is only a symptom of what the dog has already stored in its physical memory banks , in other words it interprets the present from the past

 

A dog relates to how it was feeling , it's heart rate , it's breathing , it's environment and how it's owner is feeling in any situation , these all contribute to the internal calculations the dog does to reach the outcome it does and it's all from physical memories ,

 

If there is a clink in the owner / dog relationship it often comes out when we include a high energy/high value item or distraction into the equation

 

What method was used to teach the stay , was it from a confrontation avoidance on behalf of the pup or from a stay and you will be rewarded activity in other words ,

impulse control.