Wheaton Terriers

[snizle06 202]

A wheaten called border bess I think was never lifted.

[Taggy123 59]

Cheers snizle06 wonderd if a wheaton would be one of the three. Atb taggy.

[darencross 72]

Has any of u lads any pics off the dogs that where in these trials of days gone bye as im intrested in seeing the diff shapes and sizes in the breeds that were used thanks lads dc

[Hot Meat 3,109]

Has any of u lads any pics off the dogs that where in these trials of days gone bye as im intrested in seeing the diff shapes and sizes in the breeds that were used thanks lads dc

Loads of pics in darcys strong dogs of old book pal, check ebay it's not as pricey as his other book but it is just all pics and very little reading

[hunter1995 92]

i have that book your on about mate some nice tidy dogs in that book like proper dogs none staffs you see now a days walking the towns

[darencross 72]

Whats the book called and can it still be bought thanks dc

[Hot Meat 3,109]

Books called.. dead game, Irish strong dogs of old....., some geezer called j. Darcy wrote it, or added pics at least, shop around and you'll get it cheap, a lot didn't rate the the book but if it's pics your after then that's the book to buy

[Taggy123 59]

Its called dead game irish strong dogs of old. Atb taggy.

[Taggy123 59]

Good question Taggy. Off the top of my head the only one I can think off is C McC staff bitch, Princess or Duchess I think was her name.

Some will dispute that there were more than 3 that did it but those that know all say it was 3.

[BIG G wheton machine 1,594]

when we were growing up and hunting we took th local russells up doubled up and got quite good results. we always took lurchers as we never knew what was at home and no matter what people admit too, when your terrier goes to ground and a fox pops out another hole and you have no dog its a b*****d. that's why I prefare lurchers to strong dogs although I love the wheatens. the lurchers we used growing up was all collie x grey and they worked and drew at the digs no probs, ive only seen 1 strong dog work and he was pit x staff and he was totally mute, great with stock and other dogs and brill with kids and people in general. but he was pure white and looked like he had a fight with a strimmer lol but really never suffered to badly lol hes long dead now

[Taggy123 59]

Does anyone know of the makeup of the wheaton and where the rough coat came from? Might be a daft question but if i dont ask i will never know! Atb taggy.

[THE GENERAL 1,982]

Badger trials were not hunting. They were a trial to test a terrier, both sounders and strong dogs.

Any breed could be entered in either.

There was a man who trialed beagles as sounders and there were large mongerals trialed as strongdogs.

The sounders were a joke IMO. I had a bitch disqualified in a trial because she took more than a minute to reach the pot. That was on a Sunday. On the Tuesday the same bitch did over 6 hours in a natural dig.

A friend of mine use to use his line of hard lakelands to provide badgers for his trials but on the day he used to trial his jack russells. The lakelands wouldn't have qualified.

HOWEVER, the trial for strongdogs must have been tough for the simple reason it helped refine 2 very game breeds of terrier, the wheaten and the staffordshire.

Make no bones about it, a good game example of either of these breeds is a very game dog indeed.

Some dogs bred for the trials proved their gameness when game tested in other disciplines.

It's just my own opinion but it wasn't so much the trial it's self that made these dogs what they are but the level of competition. Men were tougher on their dogs than they were on the badgers.

Also remember, only 3 strongdogs went through their careers without ever being lifted.

 

But like I say, it's very hard to justify trialing like that in this day and age unlike badger digging, which IMO can be justified as a humane method of pest control but sadly the anti's helped by idiots with terriers, lurchers and strongdogs combined with camcorders etc. have convinced the public that digging is the same as baiting.

Good post Neil. Trials were only ever good for testing strong dogs and thats it. A high percentage of the terriers that were dug over, to provide the game for a trial were never certified! I always found that end of it ridiculous. Terrier not good enough on the day to work under strict rules because of a variety of reasons, let alone it being in an artificial. Yet that same dog had done over 4 hours a few days previous with 3 in front off him. That was all forgot about though! Edited November 1, 2013 by THE GENERAL

[neil cooney 10,416]

when we were growing up and hunting we took th local russells up doubled up and got quite good results. we always took lurchers as we never knew what was at home and no matter what people admit too, when your terrier goes to ground and a fox pops out another hole and you have no dog its a b*****d. that's why I prefare lurchers to strong dogs although I love the wheatens. the lurchers we used growing up was all collie x grey and they worked and drew at the digs no probs, ive only seen 1 strong dog work and he was pit x staff and he was totally mute, great with stock and other dogs and brill with kids and people in general. but he was pure white and looked like he had a fight with a strimmer lol but really never suffered to badly lol hes long dead now

Big G, I disagree with the bit where you said "and no matter what people admit too,".

There are men who go through the whole of their lives having never had a strongdog or a lurcher present on a dig. They are usual men who are brilliant with their hands and able to use a shovel.

If the quarry is to be killed a firearms is used and if the quarry is to be relocated or freed they use their hands or step out of the way to let it by.

If the quarry is further up the tube they trench or tunnel on, torch in mouth and slide in on their belly to get the job done.

Using a dog to draw is often an excuse for a man who's afraid of the quarry. They've no problem with the dog getting unnecessarily bitten but shit themselves at the thought of been bitten themselves.

The days of the strongdog IMO should be confined to the history books. There's still a band of lads who know how to keep them right and the old types will be safe in their hands but nowadays the popularity of the wheaten and staff is down to a few lads churning them out for money.

There's lads breeding strongdogs nowadays who had dogs when the trials were big but they didn't participate.

Why ?

Because they weren't good enough.

But now, when most people wouldn't know a wheaten from a glen they can tell their lies, boost their egos and swell their bank accounts.

 

The strong dog is not good for terrier work.

Look at the European countries that have a tradition of terrierwork where a sounder and a weapon for dispatching is used. France, Belgium and Scandinavia to name a few. They're still digging badger legally.

Now look at the European countries that have strong traditions of using strongdogs at the end of a dig.

Ireland, Britain and Holland to name a few.

I rest my case.

[Accip74 7,112]

 

when we were growing up and hunting we took th local russells up doubled up and got quite good results. we always took lurchers as we never knew what was at home and no matter what people admit too, when your terrier goes to ground and a fox pops out another hole and you have no dog its a b*****d. that's why I prefare lurchers to strong dogs although I love the wheatens. the lurchers we used growing up was all collie x grey and they worked and drew at the digs no probs, ive only seen 1 strong dog work and he was pit x staff and he was totally mute, great with stock and other dogs and brill with kids and people in general. but he was pure white and looked like he had a fight with a strimmer lol but really never suffered to badly lol hes long dead now

 

Big G, I disagree with the bit where you said "and no matter what people admit too,".

There are men who go through the whole of their lives having never had a strongdog or a lurcher present on a dig. They are usual men who are brilliant with their hands and able to use a shovel.

If the quarry is to be killed a firearms is used and if the quarry is to be relocated or freed they use their hands or step out of the way to let it by.

If the quarry is further up the tube they trench or tunnel on, torch in mouth and slide in on their belly to get the job done.

Using a dog to draw is often an excuse for a man who's afraid of the quarry. They've no problem with the dog getting unnecessarily bitten but shit themselves at the thought of been bitten themselves.

The days of the strongdog IMO should be confined to the history books. There's still a band of lads who know how to keep them right and the old types will be safe in their hands but nowadays the popularity of the wheaten and staff is down to a few lads churning them out for money.

There's lads breeding strongdogs nowadays who had dogs when the trials were big but they didn't participate.

Why ?

Because they weren't good enough.

But now, when most people wouldn't know a wheaten from a glen they can tell their lies, boost their egos and swell their bank accounts.

 

The strong dog is not good for terrier work.

Look at the European countries that have a tradition of terrierwork where a sounder and a weapon for dispatching is used. France, Belgium and Scandinavia to name a few. They're still digging badger legally.

Now look at the European countries that have strong traditions of using strongdogs at the end of a dig.

Ireland, Britain and Holland to name a few.

 

I rest my case.

Great post, absolutely no need for a strong dog or a lurcher at a dig.....I've never had either when digging......never felt I was lacking.....

[Odin 183]

Good post that Neil Cooney