Aolq Refused

[pigeon1 1]

Hi guys Asked the licensing dept for aolq to be added to my licence and was refused it ,I have a 223 at the moment for fox control but have noticed a increase in the rabbit population so I asked for it to be added and was told the 223 is two powerfull ,now I don't belive in the overkill thing if the shot is taken and its safe ie solid back stops ,no chance of ricochet then I don,t see the problem job done. what are your thoughts on this.

[Alsone 789]

Can't see any reason from my understanding of the rules.

 

You already have shown good reason to possess the gun ie fox control and its been granted. The calibre guidelines only apply to showing good reason and they're guidelines. Once you have shown good reason, and providing that is still ongoing, I can't see any reason why the list of shootable quarry should not be expanded. The calibre guidelines don't form a list as to what you should exclusively be allowed to shoot with it, merely what you need to show your shooting in order to be granted that calibre in the 1st place. There's no reason why having been granted it, you shouldn't be allowed to shoot other legal quarry with it through having it added to your certificate.

 

I'd consult the BASC firearms dept. if you're a member.

[charlie caller 3,654]

I will hazard a guess that they have refused him because if they granted aolq it would automatically give him authority to shoot deer, and if he has no deer on the land, or any land with deer on they wont give authority for them.

[air gun ant 1,666]

he wouldnt be able to shoot deer lawfully with a 223 tho so it wouldnt be lawfull quarry?

[pigeon1 1]

on my first email I asked them for vermin and ground game and explained about the rabbit problem.They then phoned me and told me my 223 was too powerfull and a 22 would be better,which yes it would be but I am not in a postion to get one yet .Deer was not brought up at all ,yes I am a basc member will speak to them soon.

[zx10mike 137]

he wouldnt be able to shoot deer lawfully with a 223 tho so it wouldnt be lawfull quarry?

would muntys

[Alsone 789]

I will hazard a guess that they have refused him because if they granted aolq it would automatically give him authority to shoot deer, and if he has no deer on the land, or any land with deer on they wont give authority for them.

 

Why? I just can't see the logic behind that.

 

You can't shoot what you don't have so what difference does it make, and if any deer ever did come onto the land then he couldn't legally shoot them anyway without the farmers permission 1st, I'm presuming here his written permission is for vermin or pests but not deer. So ALOQ wouldn't give him permission without additional written quarry permission from the farmer.

 

It also appears from what the OP said that it was rabbits that were the stated reason for denial and the fact that .223 was too powerful for rabbits but he doesn't need to show good reason when he's already shown it for fox.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Alsone

[charlie caller 3,654]

he wouldnt be able to shoot deer lawfully with a 223 tho so it wouldnt be lawfull quarry?

Really so you cant shoot Muntjac and Chinese water deer or roe in Scotland then with a .223? check your facts mate.

[charlie caller 3,654]

Alsone I can understand what you are saying but he would still have authority to shoot deer, and if he does not have deer on his land he will not be granted authority, simple as,as for being too powerful well that is ridiculous dead is dead, they should have just added vermin and ground game to his ticket, I had a conversation with a pal who comes under a different force to me he asked about having deer on his ticket with his .222 the feo he spoke to said if you don't have any on your ground we don't issue it as it stops poaching,if you were stopped with a deer in your motor and you had deer on your ticket you are covered if you don't you are up shit creek, however they did say if he books a stalk they will grant it, bloody barmy if you ask me but that's feos for you.

[Alsone 789]

Yeah thanks for the explanation, that makes sense, I suppose it makes poaching control easier but their job is firearms control not game keeping in this instance. Like you said, Barmy especially as all you need to go deer shooting is the money to book a stalking trip and therefore the money to be able to get it added just the same.

 

I agrer with regards to the rabbits he should go back and ask for vermin or AOLQ except deer.

 

Otherwise I still think I'd be fighting them with the BASC's backing. In fact might be worth getting the BASC's help before re-applying as to my knowledge it seems easier to persuade them to give you something than to change a decision afterwards - I'm guessing maybe some have a not admitting error mentality.

 

If I applied for .243 (my currently favoured calibre as I'd personally want an all-round rifle to keep costs down by not having to buy 3 - 1 vermin, 1 fox, 1 deer) I'd want to be able to shooting anything below deer / fox also, be it rabbits or grounded birds of species that are legal to shoot with a rifle.

[DeerhoundLurcherMan 997]

On your certificate does it just say for "fox control"...? or fox and vermin?

[pigeon1 1]

Thanks for all the input guys ,sent a email to basc so will have to wait and see ,certificate says fox control only ,also got zeroing on but we would all be stuck with out that one

[charlie caller 3,654]

Well Alsone good luck with that one in our area, I think you would be lucky on .243 mine is deer and fox, but if you don't ask I suppose.

[Deker 3,478]

My understanding is that AOLQ was introduced due to the daft situation of Scottish Keepers/Guides/Stalkers being out after the deer with big calibres not being legally able to shoot fox that were after the Grouse/Pheasant whatever if they saw them.

 

It is not necessarily a free for all condition, although perhaps a strong argument could be put forward that it should be if you are granted that calibre anyway!

 

ACPO etc are looking for better standards of uniformity across all the regions, so who knows, but don't hold your breath!

[Deker 3,478]

Yeah thanks for the explanation, that makes sense, I suppose it makes poaching control easier but their job is firearms control not game keeping in this instance. Like you said, Barmy especially as all you need to go deer shooting is the money to book a stalking trip and therefore the money to be able to get it added just the same.

 

I agrer with regards to the rabbits he should go back and ask for vermin or AOLQ except deer.

 

Otherwise I still think I'd be fighting them with the BASC's backing. In fact might be worth getting the BASC's help before re-applying as to my knowledge it seems easier to persuade them to give you something than to change a decision afterwards - I'm guessing maybe some have a not admitting error mentality.

 

If I applied for .243 (my currently favoured calibre as I'd personally want an all-round rifle to keep costs down by not having to buy 3 - 1 vermin, 1 fox, 1 deer) I'd want to be able to shooting anything below deer / fox also, be it rabbits or grounded birds of species that are legal to shoot with a rifle.

 

Not many regions will accept a Cannon as an all-round rifle to keep costs down, for all pest species, as good reason on a first grant.