Changes To French Gun Laws

[Rez 4,957]

15 ft/lb would be just sweet for hunting. Especially in .177. It's just about perfect.

Fifffffffffffteen foot pound one seven seven... Jesus.

 

Quarry would be... "What's that thing that just pulled my gray stuff out?! Oh. Shit. I've just been shot!"

 

I poke out flatties with that much speed. Proper 'thock'.

[Hump101 17]

Surprised no-one's shot each other around here yet, they're all as fissed as a part when they go off a-huntin'...

It's actually quite scary to watch them operate. We have to get our animals penned when they are around (normally our animals roam around as they please) so we get to see them hunting. The last dog they shot was last year, when the dog chased the boar out of the corn, right between two hunters, who let fly with all they had, swinging madly around as they did so. They missed the boar, shot the dog, and only by shear luck didn't shoot each other. I was only 50m away, and dived to the ground as they continued to rotate, but they'd stopped shooting before they were pointing over our land. They wept over the dog, but would have been cheering over the boar had they killed it.

[Coypu Hunter 486]

 

15 ft/lb would be just sweet for hunting. Especially in .177. It's just about perfect.

Fifffffffffffteen foot pound one seven seven... Jesus.

 

Quarry would be... "What's that thing that just pulled my gray stuff out?! Oh. Shit. I've just been shot!"

 

I poke out flatties with that much speed. Proper 'thock'.

 

 

I beg leave to disagree slightly with the Springer Godfather based on my (admittedly much less) experience.

 

When I V-Mached my .177 HW97, it was spitting out 15 fpe and had very harsh recoil. I detuned it to 13 fpe, and it shoots sweetly now -- no recoil, fast lock time, and lethally accurate with JSB Exact Heavies out to 45 yards.

 

In contrast, my .22 HW85 whomps out Bisley Magnums and JSB Jumbo Monsters at 16 fpe, and is accurate out to 25 yards or so. I suspect that an HW80 would handle 16fpe without missing a beat, but the relative swept volume and piston size of the 97 and 85 mean that they are less able to harness the power of FAC springs accurately. And you do need to use heavy pellets to maximise accuracy, I find.

 

My next tinkering project will no doubt be a V-Mach kit for the HW85... after fettling the second-hand 12 fpe BSA Lightning XL Tactical that I just picked up for a song in Zummerzet...

Edited May 23, 2016 by Coypu Hunter

[Coypu Hunter 486]

 

Surprised no-one's shot each other around here yet, they're all as fissed as a part when they go off a-huntin'...

It's actually quite scary to watch them operate. We have to get our animals penned when they are around (normally our animals roam around as they please) so we get to see them hunting. The last dog they shot was last year, when the dog chased the boar out of the corn, right between two hunters, who let fly with all they had, swinging madly around as they did so. They missed the boar, shot the dog, and only by shear luck didn't shoot each other. I was only 50m away, and dived to the ground as they continued to rotate, but they'd stopped shooting before they were pointing over our land. They wept over the dog, but would have been cheering over the boar had they killed it.

 

 

Whereabouts in Brittany are you? Just so I can avoid driving through there on a Sunday afternoon...

[Hump101 17]

Whereabouts in Brittany are you? Just so I can avoid driving through there on a Sunday afternoon...

We're near to Dinan, and its the mornings you need to avoid. They're usually finished by midday. This year the fields are put to pasture, and the hunters usually keep away from the cows, so here's hoping!

 

I notice you have a Stoeger ATAC suppressor in your list. Is it any good as a ratter?

 

I've left a message with my environmental officer, hopefully he'll get back to me soon.

[Hump101 17]

 

Bonjour,

ce type d'arme n'est pas autorisé pour la chasse :

 

" Quelles sont les armes autorisées à la chasse ?

 

L’usage des armes de chasse est régi par deux réglementations particulières qui se croisent. D’une part, au titre de la police de la chasse, l’arrêté ministériel du 1er août 1986 modifié (1) encadre l’emploi des armes et des munitions prohibées pour l’exercice de la chasse de tout gibier et pour la destruction des animaux nuisibles. D’autre part, le décret du 6 mai 1995 (2) opère une classification des armes sur laquelle nous nous concentrerons principalement sur les 4ème et 5ème catégories.

 

Les armes prohibées pour la chasse de tout gibier au titre de la réglementation chasse

 

L’emploi de la canne – fusil, d’armes à air ou gaz comprimé dénommées aussi « armes à vent », ainsi que l’emploi des armes à feu non susceptibles d’être épaulées sans appui, entendu des armes d’un tel calibre et d’une telle puissance que leur utilisation nécessite qu’elles soient installées sur un châssis (il s’agit notamment des gros calibres utilisés par le passé pour tirer les canards, appelées « canardières ») sont interdits. Il en est de même de l’emploi pour la chasse à tir d’autres armes ou instruments de propulsion que les armes à feu ou les arcs pour la chasse de tout gibier et pour la destruction des animaux nuisibles. Pour des raisons évidentes de sécurité publique, de lutte contre le braconnage et pour maintenir l’art cynégétique de la quête du gibier, sont également prohibées les armes munies d’un dispositif fixe ou amovible comportant des graduations ou des repères de réglage de tir pour les distances supérieures à 300 mètres et les armes à feu munies de tout dispositif silencieux destiné à atténuer le bruit au départ du coup. Enfin, une arme à rechargement automatique, quelle que soit sa catégorie, permettant le tir de plus de trois coups sans réapprovisionnement ne pourra pas être utilisée pour la chasse. "

 

(Source ONCFS)

This text says that air rifles are forbidden to hunt with, it also mentions using them against vermin. (that's what I understand, so please enlighten me... )

I confess my French is a bit rusty

 

Just a note on the above. This document is from 2010, which predates the 2013 changes to weapon classes. The décret du 6 mai 1995 has been almost completely repealed (see Article 186 of the 2013 Decree). The arrêté ministériel du 1er août 1986 modifié is still applicable in its modified form, and the lines:

 

"Sont interdits pour la chasse de tout gibier et pour la destruction des animaux nuisibles :

-l'emploi des armes à air ou gaz comprimé dénommées aussi armes à vent;"

are still applicable. I've spoken again with my environmental officer, who has reiterated again that the destruction of rats is not covered by these regulations. I asked him for the applicable laws where this is stated and he said that they don't exist, but that the legality is determined by the interpretation of other health laws permitting destruction by any means approved by the local authority, and our local authority accepts shooting by air rifle provided the normal safety measures applicable to the use of firearms are applied. Thus I can shoot them as I live in an environment that is safe to fire a weapon (middle of the countryside), but anyone living in a different environment would not be allowed to do so. I asked him for something in writing to confirm this, and he told me to contact the local ONCFS office who will send me confirmation. I'm doing that now and will let you know what I receive back.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Hump101

[Coypu Hunter 486]

Excellent news, if it pans out. I'm in 35, not too far from you, so would guess it applies to me too.

 

The ATAC hits like a pile driver, and obliterates rats. It will be up for sale shortly, with scope, since I just bought a project rifle in the UK. Let me know if you' re interested.

[Nicepix 5,650]

 

I had intended to join a Chasse and had studied for the exam, but after coming here and seeing how the locals hunt I decided not to bother.

That made me smile. The land around our farm has a hunt on it for boar and deer. We don't allow them on our land as we have our own animals, and we also like having the wildlife here. They sent their dogs through once and we didn't see anything wild for 6 months. In the 9 years we've lived here we've never seen them kill a wild animal, but they have managed to shoot two of their own dogs.

 

I used to rent a cottage on a 300 hectare farm. The chasse would put up small bird boxes with a captive partridge in it. Every Tuesday or Wednesday they would release 12 partridge near to the call bird and then return on Sunday. They would hunt those same 12 partridge all day long and not go home until they'd shot them all. I had hoped for some pigeon decoying but there are more kites than pigeons locally. The driven boar shoot is something else. I try not to be within two villages of them when they are at it.

 

The only thing I miss about England is the shooting. I had the run of three farms before I came out here. Now I trap moles and help people sort out their rodent problems. And do quite a bit of fishing so its not all bad.

[Hump101 17]

Excellent news, if it pans out. I'm in 35, not too far from you, so would guess it applies to me too.

 

The ATAC hits like a pile driver, and obliterates rats. It will be up for sale shortly, with scope, since I just bought a project rifle in the UK. Let me know if you' re interested.

I might well be, if it is below 20J, but the reason for asking was that when this all started I bought a Stoeger A30 S2 suppressor on the recommendation of the armurerie, but I found that the trigger was so heavy and with such a long second stage that I couldn't group at all with it, even after using all the adjustment. The pellets (Stoeger X-hunt 8.64 gr. 0.177) were tumbling, which wasn't helping. I sent it back, as on the advice of my Uncle (30 years in the army) there could have been an issue with the barrel. Very powerful, though, leaving good dents in my backstop (we've set up a range in the barn). Nice bright scope on it, though I couldn't get it to zero even after 100+ shots. I spoke with Stoeger who recommended using a gas piston instead, hence the interest in the ATAC.

 

Last night I tried the vets Gamo Black Shadow, light gun, lovely light trigger, immediately tight groups (I can hit the same hole from 10m, front hand supported, and I'm a terrible shot), no tumbling, but of course less power. It has open sights, though, and whilst the rear green ones are clearly visible even in low light, the front red one disappears in the evening light such that I couldn't use it for rats reliably other than in the day, when they aren't about. No automatic safety either, which I don't like, and feels generally less heavy duty than the Stoeger.

 

I've persuaded myself that a PCP would be better for ratting, but my wife is tutting about the cost, so I may have to look again at the break-barrel options.

[Nicepix 5,650]

Looking back at my notes for the Chasse exam in 2009 the laws must have changed considerably. Back then there was nothing you could shoot with an air rifle or rim fire. Not even bunnies. I'm still waiting for the official clarification, but the Maire is aware that my Dutch neighbour is using my Pro Sport to shoot rats and isn't concerned. So given that the Mairie is between my garden and my neighbour's garden ans then it is open fields for several kilometres I don't anticipate any problems from him when I'm culling the corvids next spring.

[Coypu Hunter 486]

My ATAC is 20 joules. The Stoeger scope supplied with their rifles is crap, mine fell apart after a few shots. It shoots heavy pellets OK out to 25 yards, but not medium-weight pellets. If you decide to go the break-barrel gas-ram route, you can try mine for a while to see if it suits you.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Coypu Hunter

[Hump101 17]

My ATAC is 20 joules. The Stoeger scope supplied with their rifles is crap, mine fell apart after a few shots. It shoots heavy pellets OK out to 25 yards, but not medium-weight pellets. If you decide to go the break-barrel gas-ram route, you can try mine for a while to see if it suits you.

That's a very kind offer that I'll take you up on if the ONCFS give me some words I can stand behind and my wife puts her foot down about the cost of a PCP. I've read of lots of Stoeger scope issues on .22 versions, but was impressed on the .177 that I had, I expect much less kick so the scope can cope. I have small hands and had issues with the size of the pistol grip and reach to the trigger on the A30, so getting the chance to handle an ATAC before I buy would be great. I'm not a good shot so the attraction of the PCP is the easy accuracy, from what I've read, but I've never shot one. I would not anticipate ever trying to shoot beyond 25m at a rat.

 

I've not yet heard back from the ONCFS, and am travelling for the next few days, but I'll post if I get anything.

[Coypu Hunter 486]

 

My ATAC is 20 joules. The Stoeger scope supplied with their rifles is crap, mine fell apart after a few shots. It shoots heavy pellets OK out to 25 yards, but not medium-weight pellets. If you decide to go the break-barrel gas-ram route, you can try mine for a while to see if it suits you.

That's a very kind offer that I'll take you up on if the ONCFS give me some words I can stand behind and my wife puts her foot down about the cost of a PCP. I've read of lots of Stoeger scope issues on .22 versions, but was impressed on the .177 that I had, I expect much less kick so the scope can cope. I have small hands and had issues with the size of the pistol grip and reach to the trigger on the A30, so getting the chance to handle an ATAC before I buy would be great. I'm not a good shot so the attraction of the PCP is the easy accuracy, from what I've read, but I've never shot one. I would not anticipate ever trying to shoot beyond 25m at a rat.

 

I've not yet heard back from the ONCFS, and am travelling for the next few days, but I'll post if I get anything.

 

 

No worries. My ATAC also has a Welsh Willy trigger fitted, by the way, which has made the rifle more shootable than with the lousy factory trigger.

 

The major drawback of PCPs is their hideously expensive price point -- even higher in France than in the UK. There are some budget versions available these days (Benjamin Discovery, Gamo Coyote), and you can get these relatively cheaply online in France or Spain. You then have the next issue, which is buying a scuba tank or Hill pump (also expensive) to keep them full of air. Shot count then becomes very important! I have occasionally seen good online deals for the .177 Discovery plus Hill pump, although the Disco is a single-shot rifle (but quick to reload with practice). An alternative would be a CO2 rifle -- same advantages as a PCP, cheaper to run, but subject to temperature variation altering their power output. I used to have an Umarex 850 AirMagnum which was extremely accurate.

 

There are other issues such as the need to replace PCP seals after heavy use, but the big advantages of most PCPs are their discretion and their multi-shot capability, which are useful for vermin control. With a silencer, they're very quiet, and you can often shoot a second rat or more in quick succession. However, for night shooting you will need either NV gear (hideously expensive) or the cheaper alternative, a scope-mounted torch with a red filter, which is less likely to disturb the rats. Or if you're a cheap barsteward like me, you just rig up a dim bulb over the area where the rats come out to play, and after a few nights they'll accept it -- at which point you blast 'em.

 

Springers/gas-rams are cheaper to buy and normally require no running costs apart from a supply of the right pellet for the gun. If you're not very experienced at shooting these rifles, I'd be happy to show you the basics of the Artillery Hold, which allows the rifle to move around naturally, increasing accuracy.

[Hump101 17]

Thanks for the info. I'm completely new to this so it is appreciated. Other than accuracy, one attraction of a PCP to me is the light weight. At 2.4kg the Benjamin Discovery is even lighter than the vets Gamo, which is so much nicer to handle that the A30 at 3.9kg. Of course, both will be a little heavier with a scope on, but still a kilo or so less. Also, as an engineer, I'm a born fiddler, and the PCP concept appeals to my sensibilities. However, the simplicity of the break-barrel can't be denied, and in the end the cost will probably be the deciding factor, much to my chagrin!

[Nicepix 5,650]

If you are looking at simple try the Air Arms Pro Sport. It has an underlever cocking system. You can take it apart and put it back together in fifteen minutes using two Allen keys and an 11mm spanner. Shoots great out of the box, but even a numpty like me can polish and tune the internals. Don't worry about weight. Weight is one of those things that seems important to those who talk about air rifles, but not to those that use air rifles.