How Many Shots Before .17Hmr Goes Off Zero

[Deker 3,478]

 

 

 

 

I don't generally clean mine. Most people don't bother with rimfire rifles, they usually get better as they lead up

 

Which part of the copper coat on a HMR bullet (which does it's best to weld itself to the inside of your barrel) will make it better by leading the barrel?

 

Term of speech my friend, keep your hair on

 

In my experience my HMR doesn't like cleaning, many people find the same.

 

 

 

 

I will GUARANTEE you any HMR with a good true barrel will shoot better clean than dirty.

 

Was your barrel filthy and lined with copper residue when you got the gun new?

 

Barrel cleaning has been discussed many times on this and other forums. Cleaning any rifle, particularly the little HMR can be a time consuming and painstaking process. A quick once over will simply raise copper fouling and leave the barrel WORSE than when you started, that is NOT clean. This is what leads people to say it shoots worse after a clean than before and I waste 10-20-30-40-50 shots to get it shooting straight again. You can do what you like, but if you clean, then clean until its clean, a quick once over is a waste of time and commonly counter productive.

 

The patches above are the result of a pal of mine from a year or two back that had HMR groups everywhere and said it was worse after cleaning, eventually I cleaned it for him and it shot perfectly afterwards. Don't forget to clean the crown and action as well.

 

I am not trying to preach to anyone, if you want to clean it fine, if you don't then fine, but the worst possible thing you can do is half heartedly clean it.

 

All my rifles, including all my rimfires shoot straight first shot after a clean, if not second shot at worst, that is simply removing any last trace of cleaning residue from the barrel and is nothing to do with lining the barrel with lead/copper/anything.

 

Spot on, no wasted ammo, no re-zeroing, even the centrefires with a full moderator strip and clean go back together and shoot spot on again!

 

ATB!

 

No room for argument there deker .......

 

 

I always find it odd that my rifles work after a clean but so many others suggest they have problems after a clean!

 

You don't hear many target shooters (who are generally anal about cleaning) complain.... mine shoots worse after a clean than before, I had to shoot 30 shots after I cleaned it to lead the barrel again!

Edited September 10, 2013 by Deker

[dadioles 68]

I am totally with Deker on this one. Every word!! Must start a fan club......

 

The only way to properly and safely clean a rifle is with a properly fitted bore guide, a good quality single piece rod, a jag and patches with an appropriate solvent. A fresh patch every push.

 

From time to time a brush may be required but not routinely.

 

A .22lr firing subsonic lead bullets is not the same as a .17hmr firing copper jacketed bullets.

 

After thoroughly cleaning my .22lr the first bullet always fires about 0.3 to 0.5 inches low and left at 50 yards. The second and subsequent bullets are all on zero. I put this down to the first bullet re-lubricating the bore.

 

I have not tried the same experiment with my hmr but after cleaning I am not aware of any inaccuracy.

 

I bought a bore snake (fell for the advertising to my shame) used it once and never again. The whole concept is bad. After the first pull through it will pick up dirt which then gets pulled through again, it has a bronze brush built in which is too aggressive, if it breaks and gets stuck you may have a significant problem removing it, unless it is pulled through dead straight and with great care you risk rounding off the edges of the crown or the chamber.

[dadioles 68]

Oh, and back to the original post.....

 

You purchased the rifle new - do you mean brand new? If it was brand new I hope you spent some time cleaning out the gunge and muck left in the bore by the manufacturer to protect the barrel in storage.

Unless it was un "upmarket" rifle that has been hand finished (and even then....) the bore will be quite rough from the initial machining and in particular the chamber or throat where the bullet is inserted and the head of the bullet engages with the start of the rifling will also be relatively rough. That needs a bit of running in and will benefit from thorough cleaning every few rounds as it will attract copper and carbon deposits until worn smoother through use.

 

If you think about it, the tail of the bullet has a greater influence over the stability and direction of the bullet than the head of the bullet. As the bullet is fired, it is squeezed down into the rifling of the barrel which is fractionally smaller than the bullet. The head of the bullet never touches the barrel. Any carbon or copper deposits in that area of the barrel will possible have a greater effect on the stability of the flight of the bullet than any other part of the barrel.

 

It may be that your barrel, if new, is still a bit rough on the inside and consequently quickly building up deposits of carbon and copper. Clean it really thoroughly using solvents for copper that show blue when copper is still present. It will take many patches and quite a bit of time. After a couple of hundred rounds things may settle down as the barrel becomes more polished.

[Elliott 436]

 

 

 

I don't generally clean mine. Most people don't bother with rimfire rifles, they usually get better as they lead up

 

Which part of the copper coat on a HMR bullet (which does it's best to weld itself to the inside of your barrel) will make it better by leading the barrel?

 

Term of speech my friend, keep your hair on

 

In my experience my HMR doesn't like cleaning, many people find the same.

 

 

 

 

I will GUARANTEE you any HMR with a good true barrel will shoot better clean than dirty.

 

Was your barrel filthy and lined with copper residue when you got the gun new?

 

Barrel cleaning has been discussed many times on this and other forums. Cleaning any rifle, particularly the little HMR can be a time consuming and painstaking process. A quick once over will simply raise copper fouling and leave the barrel WORSE than when you started, that is NOT clean. This is what leads people to say it shoots worse after a clean than before and I waste 10-20-30-40-50 shots to get it shooting straight again. You can do what you like, but if you clean, then clean until its clean, a quick once over is a waste of time and commonly counter productive.

 

The patches above are the result of a pal of mine from a year or two back that had HMR groups everywhere and said it was worse after cleaning, eventually I cleaned it for him and it shot perfectly afterwards. Don't forget to clean the crown and action as well.

 

I am not trying to preach to anyone, if you want to clean it fine, if you don't then fine, but the worst possible thing you can do is half heartedly clean it.

 

All my rifles, including all my rimfires shoot straight first shot after a clean, if not second shot at worst, that is simply removing any last trace of cleaning residue from the barrel and is nothing to do with lining the barrel with lead/copper/anything.

 

Spot on, no wasted ammo, no re-zeroing, even the centrefires with a full moderator strip and clean go back together and shoot spot on again!

 

ATB!

 

Perhaps its my cleaning regime then, I don't seem to have any issues with the accuracy of my 1517 with a 'dirty' barrel I wonder if the groups would be even tighter after a proper clean.. can you recommend a good cleaning kit or point me in the direction of a YouTube video to show how it is done properly?

[Deker 3,478]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will GUARANTEE you any HMR with a good true barrel will shoot better clean than dirty.

 

Was your barrel filthy and lined with copper residue when you got the gun new?

 

Barrel cleaning has been discussed many times on this and other forums. Cleaning any rifle, particularly the little HMR can be a time consuming and painstaking process. A quick once over will simply raise copper fouling and leave the barrel WORSE than when you started, that is NOT clean. This is what leads people to say it shoots worse after a clean than before and I waste 10-20-30-40-50 shots to get it shooting straight again. You can do what you like, but if you clean, then clean until its clean, a quick once over is a waste of time and commonly counter productive.

 

The patches above are the result of a pal of mine from a year or two back that had HMR groups everywhere and said it was worse after cleaning, eventually I cleaned it for him and it shot perfectly afterwards. Don't forget to clean the crown and action as well.

 

I am not trying to preach to anyone, if you want to clean it fine, if you don't then fine, but the worst possible thing you can do is half heartedly clean it.

 

All my rifles, including all my rimfires shoot straight first shot after a clean, if not second shot at worst, that is simply removing any last trace of cleaning residue from the barrel and is nothing to do with lining the barrel with lead/copper/anything.

 

Spot on, no wasted ammo, no re-zeroing, even the centrefires with a full moderator strip and clean go back together and shoot spot on again!

 

ATB!

 

Perhaps its my cleaning regime then, I don't seem to have any issues with the accuracy of my 1517 with a 'dirty' barrel I wonder if the groups would be even tighter after a proper clean.. can you recommend a good cleaning kit or point me in the direction of a YouTube video to show how it is done properly?

 

 

Elliott, this is a tricky one because we are talking degrees of accuracy, and I hear many suggest they never clean and the accuracy is fine. I have never let ANY barrel get dirty enough to know just how far off it can go, and as I have stressed above I am not preaching or telling anyone what to do. There is also an argument that may suggest 0.5inch or 1.5inch at 100 yards in the field with a HMR V-Max, is it worth the effort, will it change your life? I commonly use mine out to 150-160 yards and in peoples back gardens, so I want it as good as I can get, fractions matter to me in these situations. Charging into cleaning like a Bull in a China shop could also cause damage, so care is required with this tiny bore. Rifle life is also going to be reduced without proper care, I use mine a lot, others don't, so that may not be a factor to consider for many.

 

There may also be a small argument to suggest in a poor/worn/damaged barrel that leading (lining/filling holes/whatever) can help to an extent, which is also why I stressed good/true barrel.

 

As regards a cleaning regime, people will give you many versions, but you need a good rod and brush for the HMR, many will also tell you a bore guide, solvents get personal, but you obviously need something to shift copper. The real issue is perseverance, don't stop until it is clean. This can be frustrating in the extreme when tackling a dirty HMR as it may appear you will never win, but persevere.

 

Depending on peoples individual requirement/expectations and usage of the HMR, there does seem a strong argument to clean, and a popular argument never to clean. Where I see no argument at all is, don't mess about half heartedly in the middle, clean it well or leave it.

 

Personally I always clean my rifles, I also run them all in, even the .22lr, perhaps I have been lucky but ALL my rifles shoot better than I can. I cut my teeth or target work many years back and spent more time cleaning than shooting, the difference at times was small, but with outward scoring and the merest touch of the line dropping a point, it can make the difference between 1st or 20th!

 

Edited September 11, 2013 by Deker

[andyf 144]

My 17HMR used to do about 2 boxes before it went 'off', but a good clean put it right again.

My only gripe was that the bronze brushes 'gave up' after two or three uses, as the bristles are so

short they bend over and just 'fall' through the bore.

Anyway the 17 is long gone, I didn't get on with it, use a 22.250 Ruger #1 instead.

AndyF

[Alsone 789]

 

Perhaps its my cleaning regime then, I don't seem to have any issues with the accuracy of my 1517 with a 'dirty' barrel I wonder if the groups would be even tighter after a proper clean.. can you recommend a good cleaning kit or point me in the direction of a YouTube video to show how it is done properly?

 

 

I haven't watched this through, but if there's one persons views I trust on Youtube, its this guys:

 

 

Anyone who knows what he does and who he was, I believe an ex special forces sniper, he surely knows how to clean a gun!

 

You only have to see his sniping videos to appreciate his knowledge - 1st time hits at up to 1,850 yards with .338 lapua. Even 1550 yards with .243!

Edited September 13, 2013 by Alsone