Crow 1 Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 It all just seems to me that two many people are jumping on the band wagon saying their scum and evil bastads when they need to just have a think about things! OK, lets get one thing straight; I have not given my opinion of those that fight dogs in any way. I certainly haven't called them scum or evil b*****ds, and I'm not jumping on any band wagon. What I am keen to do (to those openly contributing to the thread and those lurkers in the background) is make it perfectly clear that many of those who hunt with dogs do not see themselves (or their sport) as having anything in common with dog fighting As for the scenario of terriers working below ground lets have a look at that: > When entering a terrier to ground it is not with the intention of getting the dog ripped. Yes, its a hazard but it isn't an intention and it certainly doesn't happen every time without fail. Dogs fighting always get ripped - thats the idea! > When entering a dog to ground the intention is to locate the quarry and dig to it as quick as possible. It is not left in a prolonged battle whilst others stand around placing bets, having a beer and generally enjoying the spectacle. Dog fighting is all about watching two animals fighting with each other - thats the point! > When a terrier does get smashed up it is generally withdrawn and dealt with - at least I would hope that's the case with most respectable terrier men. In dog fighting so long as that dog is game then it's allowed to continue - thats the problem. The main difference between dog fighting and hunting with dogs is the intended action and the likely outcome. I'm sorry, but I just can't understand how some fail to see this! As for the comments about bull blooded lurchers then that really is somewhat irrelivent! You don't need to agree with a dogs history to appreciate the dogs attributes today. And certainly by using that dog it doesn't make you a hypocrite in the slightest. What it does make you is an admirer of the breed, irrespective of how it got to be what it is. (and no, I don't have, and never would have, a bull bred lurcher.) Of course, theres also the question of just how many 'bull' blooded lurchers actually have bone fide fighting dog in them, but thats anothetr topic! Crow Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swamper 11 Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 you cant have serious debate on a open forum.....best left Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waggi 0 Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 you cant have serious debate on a open forum.....best left Why not is that not the whole point off the internet a way to speck your opinion regards waggi ??????????????????????? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poacherjim 0 Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 Well, I'll be the first to publicly apoligise for my comments. I understood that he had been secretly filming legitimate hunters and making it look like they were breaking the law. Sitting watching the programme just now, I reckon the guy did a good job. As a hunter, I believe that any animal deserves a quick and painless death and endeavour to ensure this happens whenever I hunt. How anyone can enjoy watching two dogs (which they've raised from a puppy as we do our hunting dogs - forming a strong, loving bond) ripping each other apart for up to 45 mins (one fight on the programme) disgusts me. As a dog owner and dog lover, like many on here, the thought of my dogs being hurt in anyway scares the hell out of me and I cannot understand anyone who believes this to be acceptable.So, let's keep it safe, keep it legal, love our dogs who love us so much and treat them with the love and respect they deserve. couldnt have put it better myself Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swamper 11 Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) you cant have serious debate on a open forum.....best left Why not is that not the whole point off the internet a way to speck your opinion regards waggi ??????????????????????? as has been stated waggi...this is a hunting forum...not a bull forum...not the place and we are being watched...not for me mate Edited August 31, 2007 by swamper Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest WILF Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 My last word is this.........I know what my opinion of dog fighting is........but I will not condem other dogmen in public. I just feel that everytime any of us take sides with the PCA over any issue and state our agreement with them in public.........we get a little weaker and they get a little stronger. You all have a good season........work your dogs to the max.......and pray that you dont have to rely on any fellow hunters to stand at your shoulder in case they disagree with what you do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JDF Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 it's strange that it takes a non hunting matter to really get the lowdown on folk. i'll ask you to consider this point before i take my leave of these boards,when a bulldog is set down to face another bulldog theres nothing it wants more at that time than to engage the other.how many of you sanctimonious pricks can look down from your high horse and say that about the quarry thats facing your dog? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waggi 0 Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 wilf you are intiteled to your oppinion that i am not arguing what i am arguing is that in my eye's and others on this site that have voiced there belifs is that i belive Dog fighting to be wrong in all manners off it and do not condone it at all but if you can not see that other people be that hunters or not have a opinion that is diffrent to yours that is not the end off the world is it but my opinion is that watching two 10 month old pups fighting is not the same as going out with a lamp or with my ferrets yes have a good season and you work your dogs to the max ban the deed not the breed waggi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waggi 0 Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 it's strange that it takes a non hunting matter to really get the lowdown on folk. i'll ask you to consider this point before i take my leave of these boards,when a bulldog is set down to face another bulldog theres nothing it wants more at that time than to engage the other.how many of you sanctimonious pricks can look down from your high horse and say that about the quarry thats facing your dog? so my lurcher running down the beam is in the same context as to dogs going toe to toe mmmmmmmmmmmmmm think not waggi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SPONGEBOB 0 Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 it's strange that it takes a non hunting matter to really get the lowdown on folk. i'll ask you to consider this point before i take my leave of these boards,when a bulldog is set down to face another bulldog theres nothing it wants more at that time than to engage the other.how many of you sanctimonious pricks can look down from your high horse and say that about the quarry thats facing your dog? so my lurcher running down the beam is in the same context as to dogs going toe to toe mmmmmmmmmmmmmm think not waggi don't think thats what he's getting at,if i read him right he is asking do you believe what is at the end of the beam wishes to be chased and killed by you lurcher? does the fox wish the terrier to enter his earth and hold him at bay/mix with him?? does the pheasant/pidgeon etc wish to be shot??? can you see were this is going.... now take a true bred gamedog and ask the same question... now with 2 willing parties can this be cruelty... brutal maybe...but cruel? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JDF Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 it's strange that it takes a non hunting matter to really get the lowdown on folk. i'll ask you to consider this point before i take my leave of these boards,when a bulldog is set down to face another bulldog theres nothing it wants more at that time than to engage the other.how many of you sanctimonious pricks can look down from your high horse and say that about the quarry thats facing your dog? so my lurcher running down the beam is in the same context as to dogs going toe to toe mmmmmmmmmmmmmm think not waggi don't think thats what he's getting at,if i read him right he is asking do you believe what is at the end of the beam wishes to be chased and killed by you lurcher? does the fox wish the terrier to enter his earth and hold him at bay/mix with him?? does the pheasant/pidgeon etc wish to be shot??? can you see were this is going.... now take a true bred gamedog and ask the same question... now with 2 willing parties can this be cruelty... brutal maybe...but cruel? exactly,seems some can't see the wood for the trees Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,062 Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) . Edited September 1, 2007 by gnasher16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crow 1 Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 (edited) No true hunter would allow his/her dog to become involved in a prolonged battle with another animal - that's called baiting. im afraid what you state is not baiting! To set dogs upon (a chained animal, for example) for sport. You know very well what I mean! 'To set dogs upon (a chained animal, for example) for sport ! That’s an example only, as well as chains it could be confined, held, imprisoned, etc. If I were to set a terrier on a fox in a skip this would be baiting. What about a barrel? This would be baiting too? By the very definition the act of setting a dog on an animal for sport that is not free to escape is baiting - and that includes if I sit and watch it in a tunnel that I've just spent 45 minutes digging to? True hunters don't do that, they dispatch the quarry as soon as possible. The definition is there for all to see! I could argue of course that dog fighting is nothing more than dog baiting - it fits the definition. As for us sanctimonious pricks looking down from our high horse, well f**k I had to laugh! I thought I was in the sole company of true hunters, those that respected their wards and their quarry. I was wrong! It appears that there are those amongst us that have very little concern for animal welfare or, quite simply, what is right and wrong. They view obvious cruelty and barbarism alongside genuine pest control and hunting for the pot. That's not me! To any reasoned person dog fighting can never be compared to hunting with hounds; the very essence is so dramatically apposed. So that's it for me in this thread - I'll leave you to add fire to the anti's cause, I'll leave you to compound their view that dog fighting, badger baiting and hunting with dogs should all be considered as one and the same. And more importantly that those who take part are no different! You are fools! And you are making a big mistake in proclaiming your support for this activity in an open forum that purports to be a hunting forum. You are adding fuel to their fire, and in doing so you are tarnishing the public impression of what hunting with dogs is all about. More importantly you are tarnishing me. I'm a hunter with true respect for my dogs, my ferrets and the quarry I hunt. Prolonged suffering is not in my manual of work. I seek, I hunt and I kill as humanely as possible. That's what I do. I would never wish to see an animal undergo prolonged suffering for my own enjoyment; the very though of it makes me sick. I'm disgusted that any member of a hunting site can compare (and believe) that what I do is the same as those who fight dogs! Crow Edited August 31, 2007 by Crow Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ROOSTER Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 it's strange that it takes a non hunting matter to really get the lowdown on folk. i'll ask you to consider this point before i take my leave of these boards,when a bulldog is set down to face another bulldog theres nothing it wants more at that time than to engage the other.how many of you sanctimonious pricks can look down from your high horse and say that about the quarry thats facing your dog? so my lurcher running down the beam is in the same context as to dogs going toe to toe mmmmmmmmmmmmmm think not WELL YOU ARE STILL SENDING A MAMMAL TO KILL ANOTHER MAMMAL waggi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mavphill 0 Posted August 31, 2007 Report Share Posted August 31, 2007 I admit to "lurking" , the thread has been interesting, its one of those issues that will always be emotive. I personaly would not worry that there is a strong difference of opinion amongst hunters on the forum, that's life basicaly and it's often the case with many groups or organisations who follow a common interest...... For the record , if I were an outsider looking in I would have to side with CROW, hunting calls for the utmost respect amongst it's practioners. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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