Large Breed Puppy

[ox1973 2]

Whats peoples opinions on feeding large breed puppies? I've fed hills science plan and James wellbeloved large breed in the past to dogs which ended up getting skeletal issues anyway, is there any need to feed a special large breed food or is this just a money maker for the dog food companies?

[littlefish 586]

What sort of breeds are you talking about, also, what ailments did they suffer from and at what age?

[ox1973 2]

What sort of breeds are you talking about, also, what ailments did they suffer from and at what age?[/qu

I'm getting an american bulldog in a few weeks so looking at what's best to feed him, I've had a Dogue de Bordeaux that had ocd in both shoulders and I recently lost my other ambull at a young age and he had started to develope arthritis. I'm just wanting opinions on wether the defects in large breed dogs can be avoided or if they agree hereditary?

[j1985 1,984]

Yes they can be avoided by avoiding pet bred pedigree show line dogs! The state of Ab's and Ddb in the uk is shocking.

[ox1973 2]

I wish I was lucky enough to know someone breeding performance ambulls, I did see some advertised for about a grand but even then you can't be sure unless you know and trust the breeder imo, I would never get another ddb though I know plenty of ppl that have had them and they're nothing but bother

[beast 1,884]

i'm no expert in this field but two things i have been told are

1. make sure they get plenty of calcium and vitamin D as they are necessary for bone formation and not too much phosphorous as this will prevent proper bone density

2. not too much protein as it will contribute to over large muscles in a young dog (in conjunction with too much hard exercise) and this can in turn cause skeletal problems

 

some folks may disagree with this and as i say i'm no expert but just information i have been given over the years

[ox1973 2]

i'm no expert in this field but two things i have been told are

1. make sure they get plenty of calcium and vitamin D as they are necessary for bone formation and not too much phosphorous as this will prevent proper bone density

2. not too much protein as it will contribute to over large muscles in a young dog (in conjunction with too much hard exercise) and this can in turn cause skeletal problems

 

some folks may disagree with this and as i say i'm no expert but just information i have been given over the years

I've read recently that it is too much calcium that can have an adverse effect and the amount of protein doesn't effect the growth of bones at all, the more I read up on it the more I think that it is all about people breeding from unhealthy stock

[skycat 6,173]

It is the calcium/phosphorous ration that is important. Too much red meat without bone can cause problems. Funnily enough, although tripe is relatively low in protein compared to muscle meat, it has the correct calcium/phosphorous balance.

 

I still reckon a well balanced raw diet, with carbs added, is the way to go. People tend to think that raw diets are too high in protein, but if you take the water content into consideration, as compared to a complete food (virtually no water content) raw meat is a lot lower.

 

Unfortunately, dogs that have been 'man made' to be much heavier or larger than nature would have intended, often suffer from joint and skeletal issues.

[sandymere 8,263]

Two ways to go, one large breed complete is formulated to minimise the problems with large breed, but there is only so much a diet can do. This is the safest option along with controlled exercise.

 

The alternative is more risky, a home made diet, but whereas you would normally give meat containing bones I would avoid them whilst growing, along with the meat feed a carb source such as dog biscuits, pasta rice or whatever and vegetables. Most commercial dog minces contain lots of bone so these are out.

 

I wouldn’t combine meat and completes in this case as it will up the protein.

 

Effects of diets with different calcium and phosphorus contents on the skeletal development and blood chemistry of growing great danes.

Schoenmakers I, Hazewinkel HA, Voorhout G, Carlson CS, Richardson D.

Source

Department of Clinical Sciences of Companion Animals, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, Utrecht University, The Netherlands.

Abstract

The skeletal development of three groups of great dane dogs, fed a diet composed according to the published nutritional requirements for dogs (controls) or with increased calcium or calcium and phosphorus content, was examined radiographically, histologically and biochemically. The diets were fed from the time the dogs first began eating food in addition to their dam's milk, until they were 17 weeks old. Thereafter, the calcium and phosphorus intakes of the dogs in the high calcium groups were normalised for a further 10 weeks. The dogs fed the high calcium diet without a proportionally high phosphorus intake became hypercalcaemic and hypophosphataemic, and had severe disturbances in skeletal development, growth, and mineralisation which were typical for rickets. After their calcium intake was normalised the lesions of rickets resolved but osteochondrotic lesions became apparent. The dogs fed the high calcium and phosphorus diet became slightly hypophosphataemic, their growth was retarded, and they had disturbances in skeletal development resembling osteochondrosis, which had only partly resolved after 10 weeks on the normal calcium and phosphorus diet.

PMID:

11131552

[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Sirius 1,391]

Whats peoples opinions on feeding large breed puppies? I've fed hills science plan and James wellbeloved large breed in the past to dogs which ended up getting skeletal issues anyway, is there any need to feed a special large breed food or is this just a money maker for the dog food companies?

Some of the commercial diets are ok and generally soundly researched and produced, so easy for the layman to use. However you are feeding a complete and I often hear of growth problems in large breeds from people, wether this is always 100% diet related is debatable but it does seem to be common in their stories. I have been involved in raising Deerhound, Akita,GSD's, whippets, terriers, cavaliers and the odd Lurcher etc and these dogs were never fed a dry food any never had a growth plate problem. You make your choice and research as best you can.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Sirius

[ox1973 2]

So any ideas of what completes have the required balance of calc/phos?

[sandymere 8,263]

So any ideas of what completes have the required balance of calc/phos?

Large breed ones

[sandymere 8,263]

Good advice here

http://www.skeptvet.com/index.php?p=1_24_Large-Breed-Puppy-Food

 

and I learnt that protein is ok.

Edited August 30, 2013 by sandymere

[Sirius 1,391]

So any ideas of what completes have the required balance of calc/phos?

Your gonna have to do your homework, there are lots of foods available.