Looking For Info About Shotguns And Shooting Them

[shootinforfood 18]

hello all.

 

I am a keen rabbit and pigeon shooter, using mainly spring air rifles, one @ 15fpe on FAC and the others below 12. also have a .17hmr that I have used once or twice for close range foxes and a few rabbits.

 

I am now looking into buying a shotgun. already have a certificate, got it the same time as my FAC, and already have a cabinet to store it, and safe for the cartridges.

 

now, the things I would like to know, are, what is the best gauge for a good all rounder, i.e. can be used for pigeons over decoys, bolting rabbits and also the occasional fox?

 

which chokes are best for ach, which cartridges are best for each, am I better off with a semi auto, a pump or will a good old double barrel be enough?

 

I like the revo onyx, and the revo premium game shotguns, both the same price, handled and shot both on a friends shoot yesterday and liked them both.

 

I have a local sporting ground with clay pigeon ranges and plan on booking a few sessions there once I have bought a shotgun, but I also realise that clay's may not be the same as shooting live targets.

 

any help will be appreciated

 

 

[walshie 2,804]

12g would be best IMO and I'd steer well clear of Revo. Cheap Turkish rubbish. (Again just my opinion.)

[Alsone 789]

12 guage, double barrelled, over and under unless you want a traditional gun. No need to go any smaller unless you're of very small build in which case 20 bore. .410 for children.

 

Any larger and you'll be reloading and paying a fortune in cartridges not to mention the recoil.

 

chokes - matter of opinion but 1/4 and 1/2 for rabbits and pigeon with 32 grams no 6

 

1/2 and 3/4, or 3/4 and full (lead) for fox although sometimes depends on what you have in if you walk up on one (!) with 42 grams of No 1 or BB (always carry a heavy load or two in an easy to find pocket as unlike the chokes, you can change cartridges in seconds on a break barrel)

 

You'll find semi autos and pumps aren't always too welcome on clay shoots as they're not considered as safe.

 

There's very little virtue for more than 2 shots usually in the field, most prey has gone after the 1st or 2nd shot.

 

Semi auto still a good all round gun though. Advanatge less recoil. Disadvantage - more noise and ejected cartriges may bounce off the cages in clay shoots and come back into your face. More prone to stoppages if you get them dirty in the field. Pumps, not so much of a good gun as the action of pumping the gun throws the gun out of position and you have to recompose your aim. Better for self defense on foreign shores than shooting in the uk.

 

Good mid range guns - Browning, Berreta, Winchester (brand depends on how you like the balance - they all feel different)

 

Just my 2 cents, some may disagree.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Alsone

[James Cooksey 29]

12 bore is what 95% of people use i also say best thing to do is go in to your local gun shop and shoulder some diffrent guns till you find one that you like but i would go for either a side by side or and over and under

[shootinforfood 18]

cheers guys, thanks for all the advice.

 

am I right in thinking that the choke alters the spread of the shot? and also increases range of the shot? or is it just spread?

 

I have fired 2 revo's and found them comfortable and didn't find an issue with them, but only shot them for one days outing aiming (and missing) at crows and pigeons.

 

I am not too concerned about the fact that they are cheap and nasty as a lot of people have told me, I have an SMK DB4 air rifle that is hailed as cheap and nasty, but I have worked some magic and it is a fairly nice air rifle now. shooting close to the limit and quite accurate.

 

I am mainly looking for a good first timer, for around the £500 mark and preferably new (have a bit of an OCD about second hand firearms, had a bad encounter with a cz513)

 

I went up to the local RFD earlier on and held a few benelli's, Winchesters and a browning or 2, all way out of my budget, but what I will be saving for once I have got myself a good starter.

 

I don't mind not hunting to begin with, and just shooting clays as my local range only charges for the stall if you bring your own gun, cartridges and clays, which works out a lot cheaper

 

I have just fallen in love with shotguns. I thought shooting a rim fire was fun, but shotguns are just something else completely

[Alsone 789]

A choke controls the spread of the shot. In turn this controls the effective range - as the shot spread out at range you reach a point where either you do not hit the target with enough shot to kill it, or in the case of smaller prey, the shot spread so much that there are holes in the pattern which mean the aim can be spot on but the shot just pass around the target without hitting it if its in the posiition of one of the holes.

 

The idea of chokes therefore is to match the choke and thus ideal spread of the shot to the range you're commonly shooting at so as to avoid too dense a pattern (blows the target apart destroying live prey beyond edible use and also being small and tight increases the risk of a complete miss), or too wide a pattern which increases the chance of wounding or missing through the formation of holes. The idea is that at the ideal range you have a dustbin lin sized dense pattern with no holes, giving you the maximum chance of a clean kill.

 

What you want is something like this:

 

 

What you want to avoid is this (note the holes the target can sit in without being harmed):

 

 

 

or this (too tight - very small spread and large area untouched):

 

 

 

That said, don't get too hooked up on it all.

 

Unless your clay shooting you can never make an ideal choke choice as you never know what range your target will be at. WHat you try and do in the field is match the typical range of the target so you cover the correct range 90% of the time.

 

If your hunting something specific then it may also influence your choice eg with fox at night, you can safely go tight because you're not shooting anything else and a fox is a large target and you need a lot of hits to get a clean kill.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Alsone

[shootinforfood 18]

thanks for that, makes a lot more sense now.

 

cant wait to have a go at the range now.

 

it sounds a lot like hunting with an air rifle. the choke gives you a specific spread and range, so instead of just sitting down and taking the shot from any where like I can with the hmr, you have to distance yourself correctly from the target in order to get the best shot, even if it means moving in or away from your target.

 

that is one of the things I don't like about shooting rabbits with the hmr. there is no need to stalk. just set up in one place, and I can cover the entire field without moving. I like stalking in and going un-noticed with an air rifle, and it sounds like a shotgun isn't that much different if you have to find the right range and shoot from there

[kruby01 114]

I've never even seen a revo in the flesh but saw them in a magazine and then asked on here for reviews. I was advised to try a Baikal and I now own two very happily. I am looking for an over and under now which will possibly be another Baikal.

 

The choke question has been answered but cartridge again is a personal choice. I mainly use 6 for birds and 5 for rabbits. I use bb for fox although shooting fox with a shotgun is harder than you think. If you have the hmr I doubt you will bother using the shotgun for fox so I wouldn't bother too much. Obviously you might stumble across one lying in the field on a hot day but calling in to shotgun range can be done as j do and plenty do but if you have an FAC which you do then there are far better tools for the job

[Alsone 789]

thanks for that, makes a lot more sense now.

 

cant wait to have a go at the range now.

 

it sounds a lot like hunting with an air rifle. the choke gives you a specific spread and range, so instead of just sitting down and taking the shot from any where like I can with the hmr, you have to distance yourself correctly from the target in order to get the best shot, even if it means moving in or away from your target.

 

that is one of the things I don't like about shooting rabbits with the hmr. there is no need to stalk. just set up in one place, and I can cover the entire field without moving. I like stalking in and going un-noticed with an air rifle, and it sounds like a shotgun isn't that much different if you have to find the right range and shoot from there

 

 

You'll find some latitude, like I say don't get too hung up on it. The only thing to remember is not to overdo the distance as shotguns rely on multiple hits to kill.

 

eg a rabbit might require eg 5ft lbs energy to dispatch it. A single pellet may only contain eg 1ft lbs. So to guarantee enough shock to kill you need to hit it with at least 5 pellets.

 

OK not quite as simple as that but I'm sure you get the point - its not like a rifle, one pellet won't do it. You nee multiple hits and the number and the energy of the hits depends on the size of the prey - hence the reason to shoot tighter with larger shot for fox. That said like everything you can go too large eg SSG might not give you enough hits to kill. Its all about selecting the right cartridge / choke combination for the prey / trypical shooting distance hence 1's and BB's for fox, No 6 for pigeon / rabbit (sometimes 5 and sometimes 5 for game although most just use 6). Its all about spread, number of shot in the cartridge to both ensure enough hits and a full pattern, and the amount of energy transferred.

Edited August 27, 2013 by Alsone

[brucemyster 75]

After reading your post I recon the type of shooting your talking about you'd be best suited for a semi auto, breaking barrels in a tight hide when pigeon shooting can be a pain in the proverbial, my son bought himself a semi after seeing how much easier it was when we were sharing a hide, providing you get yourself a breech flag or plastic safety plug most clay grounds will be happy to accommodate you, though it's definitely a no no if you ever get to go on a formal shoot!!

[alan81 110]

if your looking for a good budget gun then you cant go wrong with a Baikal, they do a nice semi auto as well. when it comes down to u/o or s/auto it comes down to witch you like the best. I have a s/auto because I like just one barrel, how light it is for carrying around and the 3rd shot I have even if I don't use it much. but as said above go to a gun shop and try a few different guns both u/o and s/auto and see what fits you best and stay away from Turkish guns.

[shootinforfood 18]

thanks guys.

 

I have been to sportsman gun centre, my local, and have held a few shotguns, and like the feel of all of them. held a Baikal and quite liked it.

 

incidentally, I will be taking a few lessons at my local clay pigeon range and they use baikals as their hire guns, so I shoulg be able to get to know them well enough to know if I like them.

 

does anyone have rough idea how long a clay shoot will take with 25 pigeons and some pauses for instruction, and about 15 mins of free shooting to get used to how the gun reacts?

[Alsone 789]

1.5 hours at a guess.

 

I'd allow 2 hours to be safe.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Alsone

[shootinforfood 18]

thanks, will probably take the air rifle aswell and spend some time at the range afterwards

[cbw 4]

The lessons I had were 1 to 1 using my 3 shot semi auto and I was doing 125 cartridges/birds in an hour and 10 mins of instruction, including breaks for guidance, so 25 birds may not be long at all?