Pre Ban Deer

[shaaark 10,693]

As kranky has said, there's a fair bit of difference in build of all types, but in my original post I pointed out the fact that if a tall dog retains balance and doesn't turn out too heavy etc, it's going to be more versatile, and there are not that many tall dogs that are used in the field that are too heavy. What would someone's opinion as to which dog would be more agile or be able to turn quicker, a 28" saluki x or a 24" collie/grey x bull/grey for example?

[lapin2008 1,587]

running your dogs when the crops are up says one thing summer time hunters ,cant they do it when they are down

 

thats when they were in season..

 

and the crops made it more difficult for the dogs, feel free to answer for him why it makes them easier to catch.. and therefore in some way less fair on the deer

[C Hall 552]

 

Well I dont.. which should be pretty obvious by now, hence why I used to

You were the one that pulled me up about having run roe bucks through the summer months thinking that they were out of season

 

All I am asking you to do is justify why running them in season, on crops is in some way unfair or cruel as you are implying,

 

 

Can you quote me saying you ran them out of season? I said something similar to "I don't like to run them through the summer through high crops" I also never implied it was cruel or unfair

Shooting seasons are nothing like the running dog season so I DO think your example of seasons is bad

[lapin2008 1,587]

 

 

Well I dont.. which should be pretty obvious by now, hence why I used to

You were the one that pulled me up about having run roe bucks through the summer months thinking that they were out of season

 

All I am asking you to do is justify why running them in season, on crops is in some way unfair or cruel as you are implying,

 

 

Can you quote me saying you ran them out of season? I said something similar to "I don't like to run them through the summer through high crops" I also never implied it was cruel or unfair

Shooting seasons are nothing like the running dog season so I DO think your example of seasons is bad

 

you mentioned the summer hunting thing hoping to get people on the bandwaggon lol before you had thought about the actual seasons for deer

 

another thing about taking roe bucks through the summer is that it has very little impact on the numbers of deer the following year as other bucks move into the same areas where they were taken and mate with the does there

[Suzy Ross 236]

 

 

 

 

I wish I had a garden of roses, some amount of manure gets talked on here.

Excellent input

What would you like me to add, you guys have it all covered from giraffes to Usain Bolt! But since you want my view, here it is. Everything in life has its ideal size for peak performance. You guys have opened the discussion to include anything so I will. Nature has created the fastest animal to be the size it is. Everything has a knock on effect. If an animal is taller it's centre of gravity is higher up its body making it less maneuverable I.e bending. If you can get a tall dog with a low centre of gravity or running style that makes it run lower great. But a smaller dog will obviously out maneuver it. I personally think the best all round dog is around 26,27 tts. But your always going to get exceptions to the rule. Sea biscuit wasn't to shabby for a small horse but there aren't many of them about.

Have you seen a big dog running flat out? When they're stretched right out, there's not a lot of room between their belly and the floor. How's that for a low centre of gravity?

 

Your answer doesn't really say much about pre ban deer or speed versus manoeuvrability.

 

You've just repeated what others have said previously. So, in effect, you've added nothing.

 

Fantastic work. I'd stick to gardening if I were you.

Haha, as I said, you guys pretty much have it all covered. Yes I have seen large dogs run, on deer, hare, rabbit. And yes they do run close to the ground, my own dog is 27tts and he doesn't have much hair underneath from bending, still doesn't have the same centre of gravity as a smaller dog or are you to thick to understand that?

[ian 1 36]

 

running your dogs when the crops are up says one thing summer time hunters ,cant they do it when they are down

 

thats when they were in season..

 

and the crops made it more difficult for the dogs, feel free to answer for him why it makes them easier to catch.. and therefore in some way less fair on th

you tell me whats so hard about running deer when the crops are up

[C Hall 552]

 

you mentioned the summer hunting thing hoping to get people on the bandwaggon lol before you had thought about the actual seasons for deer

 

 

 

another thing about taking roe bucks through the summer is that it has very little impact on the numbers of deer the following year as other bucks move into the same areas where they were taken and mate with the does there

 

 

Wrong I have no argument with people running bucks when or where ever they please, I did dislike people running does when they were heavily pregnant or nursing but that is another topic. You seriously think I didn't know when a roe buck was in season to shoot?

[fitchet 788]

 

 

Well I dont.. which should be pretty obvious by now, hence why I used to

You were the one that pulled me up about having run roe bucks through the summer months thinking that they were out of season

 

All I am asking you to do is justify why running them in season, on crops is in some way unfair or cruel as you are implying,

 

Can you quote me saying you ran them out of season? I said something similar to "I don't like to run them through the summer through high crops" I also never implied it was cruel or unfair

Shooting seasons are nothing like the running dog season so I DO think your example of seasons is bad

you mentioned the summer hunting thing hoping to get people on the bandwaggon lol before you had thought about the actual seasons for deer

 

another thing about taking roe bucks through the summer is that it has very little impact on the numbers of deer the following year as other bucks move into the same areas where they were taken and mate with the does there

Just becuase the deer are in season it doesn't make running them in the height of summer ok. If you've got much experience with running April bucks you will know that normally you end up with a dog who's struggling with all of the cover ground is rock hard and as for running in crops why the f**k would you even slip ?? So the dog has a fruitless chase unless the deer makes a mistake or gets fenced up the dog ends up with a throatfull of seeds and even when they do make a catch it flattens the crops down so your causing even more damage to the land. I've taken a couple of April bucks stunning animals in my opinion but you have to wait for the right situation running them in long crops is just plain silly and dangerous. This is just my opinion and what I've been taught most people that spout the loudest about dogs and deer most of the time have only killed fenced deer or them that hesitate before cover ect. 9 times out of ten if the deers made it to cover we count it as gone around here.just my opinion anyway lads all the best

[lapin2008 1,587]

 

 

 

Well I dont.. which should be pretty obvious by now, hence why I used to

You were the one that pulled me up about having run roe bucks through the summer months thinking that they were out of season

 

All I am asking you to do is justify why running them in season, on crops is in some way unfair or cruel as you are implying,

Can you quote me saying you ran them out of season? I said something similar to "I don't like to run them through the summer through high crops" I also never implied it was cruel or unfair

Shooting seasons are nothing like the running dog season so I DO think your example of seasons is bad

you mentioned the summer hunting thing hoping to get people on the bandwaggon lol before you had thought about the actual seasons for deer

 

another thing about taking roe bucks through the summer is that it has very little impact on the numbers of deer the following year as other bucks move into the same areas where they were taken and mate with the does there

Just becuase the deer are in season it doesn't make running them in the height of summer ok. If you've got much experience with running April bucks you will know that normally you end up with a dog who's struggling with all of the cover ground is rock hard and as for running in crops why the f**k would you even slip ?? So the dog has a fruitless chase unless the deer makes a mistake or gets fenced up the dog ends up with a throatfull of seeds and even when they do make a catch it flattens the crops down so your causing even more damage to the land. I've taken a couple of April bucks stunning animals in my opinion but you have to wait for the right situation running them in long crops is just plain silly and dangerous. This is just my opinion and what I've been taught most people that spout the loudest about dogs and deer most of the time have only killed fenced deer or them that hesitate before cover ect. 9 times out of ten if the deers made it to cover we count it as gone around here.just my opinion anyway lads all the best

 

 

Thanks for the sensible response mate, much better than the previous 'because THL says it bad' type

 

The ground cover is something that going to hinder the dog as much if not more than the deer anyway. I'm also talking about open arable fields not anything to do with fences, there were never many fences in the places I used to go mostly dykes and intermittent hedge row type stuff seperating big flat arable fields where my permissions were back then. In reality I never found it particulary dangerous either (when compared to any other type of dog related running) when its all open fields with nothing but arable there a very few trees to have fallen branches under them, no barb wire and any farm machinery left out would likely have been on the edges of fields where the farmer could easily get at it, and if that is a risk, it is as much to the dog as the deer. You are right regarding the land being hard though but I suppose it was just up to the dogs feet to stand up to it. The temperiture is something you did mention but one area that could have been more dangerous to the dog than through the winter months but I always used to go at last light anyway so it had come down by then.

 

If we were talking about any other game species I would agree with you but the male deer are at their peak around their season on the lead up to the rut so were pretty much on top of their game around that time

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree as we could continue to go round and round with this one and its too late now for anything to be proved right/wrong or otherwise...

[lapin2008 1,587]

Forgot to respond to the fruitess chases bit.

 

I always found that although the chances of success were slightly higher than on shorter ground cover the dog always had a reasonable chance of success.

[fitchet 788]

 

 

 

 

 

Well I dont.. which should be pretty obvious by now, hence why I used to

You were the one that pulled me up about having run roe bucks through the summer months thinking that they were out of season

 

All I am asking you to do is justify why running them in season, on crops is in some way unfair or cruel as you are implying,

Can you quote me saying you ran them out of season? I said something similar to "I don't like to run them through the summer through high crops" I also never implied it was cruel or unfair

Shooting seasons are nothing like the running dog season so I DO think your example of seasons is bad

you mentioned the summer hunting thing hoping to get people on the bandwaggon lol before you had thought about the actual seasons for deer

 

another thing about taking roe bucks through the summer is that it has very little impact on the numbers of deer the following year as other bucks move into the same areas where they were taken and mate with the does there

Just becuase the deer are in season it doesn't make running them in the height of summer ok. If you've got much experience with running April bucks you will know that normally you end up with a dog who's struggling with all of the cover ground is rock hard and as for running in crops why the f**k would you even slip ?? So the dog has a fruitless chase unless the deer makes a mistake or gets fenced up the dog ends up with a throatfull of seeds and even when they do make a catch it flattens the crops down so your causing even more damage to the land. I've taken a couple of April bucks stunning animals in my opinion but you have to wait for the right situation running them in long crops is just plain silly and dangerous. This is just my opinion and what I've been taught most people that spout the loudest about dogs and deer most of the time have only killed fenced deer or them that hesitate before cover ect. 9 times out of ten if the deers made it to cover we count it as gone around here.just my opinion anyway lads all the best

Thanks for the sensible response mate, much better than the previous 'because THL says it bad' type

 

The ground cover is something that going to hinder the dog as much if not more than the deer anyway. I'm also talking about open arable fields not anything to do with fences, there were never many fences in the places I used to go mostly dykes and intermittent hedge row type stuff seperating big flat arable fields where my permissions were back then. In reality I never found it particulary dangerous either (when compared to any other type of dog related running) when its all open fields with nothing but arable there a very few trees to have fallen branches under them, no barb wire and any farm machinery left out would likely have been on the edges of fields where the farmer could easily get at it, and if that is a risk, it is as much to the dog as the deer. You are right regarding the land being hard though but I suppose it was just up to the dogs feet to stand up to it. The temperiture is something you did mention but one area that could have been more dangerous to the dog than through the winter months but I always used to go at last light anyway so it had come down by then.

 

If we were talking about any other game species I would agree with you but the male deer are at their peak around their season on the lead up to the rut so were pretty much on top of their game around that time

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree as we could continue to go round and round with this one and its too late now for anything to be proved right/wrong or otherwise...

Fair enough mate if we all had the same opinions the running dog game would be boring as f**k. All the best.

[fitchet 788]

Double post.

Edited October 31, 2013 by fitchet

[kranky 507]

running your dogs when the crops are up says one thing summer time hunters ,cant they do it when they are down

The maize only came down last week around here. Do you think that it's still summer?

 

If a dog couldn't run through crops or cover then it wasn't much use to me.

[kranky 507]

Forgot to respond to the fruitess chases bit.

 

I always found that although the chances of success were slightly higher than on shorter ground cover the dog always had a reasonable chance of success.

I only ever slipped if my dog had a chance. I think a lot of people wanted to touch the deer before they let their dog go.

[kranky 507]

 

 

 

 

 

I wish I had a garden of roses, some amount of manure gets talked on here.

Excellent input

What would you like me to add, you guys have it all covered from giraffes to Usain Bolt! But since you want my view, here it is. Everything in life has its ideal size for peak performance. You guys have opened the discussion to include anything so I will. Nature has created the fastest animal to be the size it is. Everything has a knock on effect. If an animal is taller it's centre of gravity is higher up its body making it less maneuverable I.e bending. If you can get a tall dog with a low centre of gravity or running style that makes it run lower great. But a smaller dog will obviously out maneuver it. I personally think the best all round dog is around 26,27 tts. But your always going to get exceptions to the rule. Sea biscuit wasn't to shabby for a small horse but there aren't many of them about.

Have you seen a big dog running flat out? When they're stretched right out, there's not a lot of room between their belly and the floor. How's that for a low centre of gravity?

 

Your answer doesn't really say much about pre ban deer or speed versus manoeuvrability.

 

You've just repeated what others have said previously. So, in effect, you've added nothing.

 

Fantastic work. I'd stick to gardening if I were you.

Haha, as I said, you guys pretty much have it all covered. Yes I have seen large dogs run, on deer, hare, rabbit. And yes they do run close to the ground, my own dog is 27tts and he doesn't have much hair underneath from bending, still doesn't have the same centre of gravity as a smaller dog or are you to thick to understand that?

I'm not TOO thick. (That's the correct spelling in that instance, in case you're TOO thick )

 

So you're saying that a smaller dog is better than yours because it's got a low centre of gravity. Well, I think that says more about your dog than the tall versus small argument.