Fitter Type English Bull Terrier

[AKA-BRINDLE 879]

The Staff came after the Apbt, the Apbt is basically the same breed that was shipped over the pond when the Irish and English settled there...

 

Didn't any Scottish go ?

Of course they did...and no doubt took their Game dogs and Game cocks with them...as did the English,Irish,Welsh and Cornish dogmen...its a modern day romantic myth that the APBT originates from dogs that 'mostly' came from Ireland

[AKA-BRINDLE 879]

While i have read about the history of dogs i find far too many get caught up with the history. How many litters are sold with the selling point being psycho is in the pedigree lol even so many generations back.

Are you unfamiliar with the concept of line breeding? ...

[Carlovian 592]

 

The history books tell us (God knows I've read enough of them) that the dogs of the English west country ended the Blue Pauls of Scotland.

The dog that became the staff was there before the APBT, only it wasn't called the staff. It had localised names or was just called a pit dog.

The dogs that went over to the states mostly came from these islands but the Irish dogs were most probably brought to Ireland by British troops when they occupied Ireland.

BUT, then the Irish kicked the British ass's back to Old Blighty but kept the bloodlines. Sounds far fetched but it's true.

Then, the Irish lines became localised or family orientated and when sent to the yanks got their reputations such as the Old Family Reds etc. etc.

The Irish probably did more emigrating than our neighbours and landing on the American east coast (a dog fighting and cock fighting stronghold) holding an Irish gamecock or fighting dog was often a visa for a poor man to maybe get a job or somewhere to stay because the American dogfighters and cockfighters were often local business men. The promise of more livestock coming over from the Emerald Isle could get a man and his family a foot in the door ,so to speak.

 

It's not about being involved in these sports, of which I'm not, but it's about having a big interest in where our dogs came from and learning a very interesting aspect of history that involves our ancestors and our dogs.

Funny enough, talking to folk over the years about the old sports / bloodlines etc. not everything I've heard or know comes out of books.

It fascinates me.

 

A man hears what he wants to hear...and disregards the rest...or so the song goes...im no History expert but in regards to the pioneers of the APBT who made an impact on the breed...J.P Colby springs to mind...he emigrated to America from Wales taking dogs with him...yes he imported dogs from Ireland...but also from England too...then theres Earl Tudor...whos favored line of dogs where the Henry dogs...an English Bloodline...and of course theres Cockney Charlie Lloyd...with his famous foundation dog Pilot...a dog whelped in a pub in Walsall...i think yours is a bit of a romantic view...and one that over states Irelands involvment in the development of the breed...just my opinion

 

Colby's family background was Welsh , but he was born in USA, most of his dogs bloodline came from Irish imports ,,

[tinytiger 822]

read a bit of a book (in the shop)about a year back "sport in ireland" by a guy called james kelly(i think-surnames right anyway)..bull baiting and dogfighting were fairly popular in rural tyrone in the 1700s apparantly-(possibly bred off dogs brought over by planters.?)if you go back to the early days of the apbt the surnames of the ownerts are mostly irish e.g galvin,feely,corcoran etc..well i suppose the famine wasnt that long before that and some percentage of them were bound to be into dogs

[neil cooney 10,416]

 

The Staff came after the Apbt, the Apbt is basically the same breed that was shipped over the pond when the Irish and English settled there...

 

Didn't any Scottish go ?

Of course they did...and no doubt took their Game dogs and Game cocks with them...as did the English,Irish,Welsh and Cornish dogmen...its a modern day romantic myth that the APBT originates from dogs that 'mostly' came from Ireland

 

No romantic ideas at all. It's more or less a fact that the Irish originally got their dogs from the British and the Irish bloodlines were popular with the yanks.

So after the British left their dogs with the Irish the Irish just made them better.

Same as today with terrier lines (patterdales, russells etc.) , the most common breeds worked today are all of British origin but the Irish have made them better.

[Zilverhaze 1,627]

Are you serious Neil or having a laugh ? What makes you think or no that the Irish have better russles and patterdales than the English bold statement that mate ime sure Thers plenty who will disagree haha

[DogFox123 1,379]

 

 

The Staff came after the Apbt, the Apbt is basically the same breed that was shipped over the pond when the Irish and English settled there...

Didn't any Scottish go ?

 

Of course they did...and no doubt took their Game dogs and Game cocks with them...as did the English,Irish,Welsh and Cornish dogmen...its a modern day romantic myth that the APBT originates from dogs that 'mostly' came from Ireland

No romantic ideas at all. It's more or less a fact that the Irish originally got their dogs from the British and the Irish bloodlines were popular with the yanks.

So after the British left their dogs with the Irish the Irish just made them better.

Same as today with terrier lines (patterdales, russells etc.) , the most common breeds worked today are all of British origin but the Irish have made them better.

Yeah and in turn the Americans made them even better than the Irish....

[DogFox123 1,379]

Are you serious Neil or having a laugh ? What makes you think or no that the Irish have better russles and patterdales than the English bold statement that mate ime sure Thers plenty who will disagree haha

That's his opinion of course with no evidence to back it up.

[Guest Navek]

 

 

The history books tell us (God knows I've read enough of them) that the dogs of the English west country ended the Blue Pauls of Scotland.

The dog that became the staff was there before the APBT, only it wasn't called the staff. It had localised names or was just called a pit dog.

The dogs that went over to the states mostly came from these islands but the Irish dogs were most probably brought to Ireland by British troops when they occupied Ireland.

BUT, then the Irish kicked the British ass's back to Old Blighty but kept the bloodlines. Sounds far fetched but it's true.

Then, the Irish lines became localised or family orientated and when sent to the yanks got their reputations such as the Old Family Reds etc. etc.

The Irish probably did more emigrating than our neighbours and landing on the American east coast (a dog fighting and cock fighting stronghold) holding an Irish gamecock or fighting dog was often a visa for a poor man to maybe get a job or somewhere to stay because the American dogfighters and cockfighters were often local business men. The promise of more livestock coming over from the Emerald Isle could get a man and his family a foot in the door ,so to speak.

 

It's not about being involved in these sports, of which I'm not, but it's about having a big interest in where our dogs came from and learning a very interesting aspect of history that involves our ancestors and our dogs.

Funny enough, talking to folk over the years about the old sports / bloodlines etc. not everything I've heard or know comes out of books.

It fascinates me.

 

A man hears what he wants to hear...and disregards the rest...or so the song goes...im no History expert but in regards to the pioneers of the APBT who made an impact on the breed...J.P Colby springs to mind...he emigrated to America from Wales taking dogs with him...yes he imported dogs from Ireland...but also from England too...then theres Earl Tudor...whos favored line of dogs where the Henry dogs...an English Bloodline...and of course theres Cockney Charlie Lloyd...with his famous foundation dog Pilot...a dog whelped in a pub in Walsall...i think yours is a bit of a romantic view...and one that over states Irelands involvment in the development of the breed...just my opinion

 

Colby's family background was Welsh , but he was born in USA, most of his dogs bloodline came from Irish imports ,,

J p colby was born in Massachusetts and started of dog fighting using bull terriers from imports from England and Ireland which were brought over by imergrants ....well that's what his kids wrote anyway .

[snappeer 464]

 

 

The Staff came after the Apbt, the Apbt is basically the same breed that was shipped over the pond when the Irish and English settled there...

Didn't any Scottish go ?

 

Of course they did...and no doubt took their Game dogs and Game cocks with them...as did the English,Irish,Welsh and Cornish dogmen...its a modern day romantic myth that the APBT originates from dogs that 'mostly' came from Ireland

No romantic ideas at all. It's more or less a fact that the Irish originally got their dogs from the British and the Irish bloodlines were popular with the yanks.

So after the British left their dogs with the Irish the Irish just made them better.

Same as today with terrier lines (patterdales, russells etc.) , the most common breeds worked today are all of British origin but the Irish have made them better.

is that why ye bring youre coursing dogs over here neil because youse are sick off coursing hares in bogged out horse paddocks

[dare 1,103]

 

 

While i have read about the history of dogs i find far too many get caught up with the history. How many litters are sold with the selling point being psycho is in the pedigree lol even so many generations back.

Are you unfamiliar with the concept of line breeding? ...

Im not on about a few who may actually have a breeding plan. It just seemed a point when psycho was the name used to shift pups bred by any old dog who had his name pop up somewhere back in the pedigree. Abit like a time when the pakis were selling huge red nose dogs and calling em reid lines lol.

 

I'm not anti staffords or anything I have been around some lovely ones. I just see alot of stafford owners seem to be obsessed with pedigrees or names far back in the pedigree. Other than the legal situation to stop people owning one, is there any task a staff can do that a pitbull couldnt do better?

[BGD 6,431]

 

 

While i have read about the history of dogs i find far too many get caught up with the history. How many litters are sold with the selling point being psycho is in the pedigree lol even so many generations back.

Are you unfamiliar with the concept of line breeding? ...

. Other than the legal situation to stop people owning one, is there any task a staff can do that a pitbull couldnt do better?

 

 

Be a pet

After having a bulldog as a house pet for the last few years I don't think I'll ever do it again, far too highly strung for my liking. They'll stay out in the yard where they belong But I probably will have Staffords in the house again they just fit into home life much better in my experience, seem to have more of an "off switch". Maybe that's down to the lines I've kept though, who knows

[AKA-BRINDLE 879]

 

 

The Staff came after the Apbt, the Apbt is basically the same breed that was shipped over the pond when the Irish and English settled there...

 

Didn't any Scottish go ?

Of course they did...and no doubt took their Game dogs and Game cocks with them...as did the English,Irish,Welsh and Cornish dogmen...its a modern day romantic myth that the APBT originates from dogs that 'mostly' came from Ireland

 

No romantic ideas at all. It's more or less a fact that the Irish originally got their dogs from the British and the Irish bloodlines were popular with the yanks.

So after the British left their dogs with the Irish the Irish just made them better.

Same as today with terrier lines (patterdales, russells etc.) , the most common breeds worked today are all of British origin but the Irish have made them better.

 

Thats your opinion and your entitled to it...its an ignorant one...but your entitled to it...its always made me laugh how some of you Irish lads on here (to put it mildly) are prone to exaggeration and story telling...and of course with a tale or two about getting one over the English...but as far as the APBT goes...going by the amount of CH,s and winning dogs we had over here in the 80's/90's...we really dont need the Irish to make anything 'better' for us...

[AKA-BRINDLE 879]

 

 

The history books tell us (God knows I've read enough of them) that the dogs of the English west country ended the Blue Pauls of Scotland.

The dog that became the staff was there before the APBT, only it wasn't called the staff. It had localised names or was just called a pit dog.

The dogs that went over to the states mostly came from these islands but the Irish dogs were most probably brought to Ireland by British troops when they occupied Ireland.

BUT, then the Irish kicked the British ass's back to Old Blighty but kept the bloodlines. Sounds far fetched but it's true.

Then, the Irish lines became localised or family orientated and when sent to the yanks got their reputations such as the Old Family Reds etc. etc.

The Irish probably did more emigrating than our neighbours and landing on the American east coast (a dog fighting and cock fighting stronghold) holding an Irish gamecock or fighting dog was often a visa for a poor man to maybe get a job or somewhere to stay because the American dogfighters and cockfighters were often local business men. The promise of more livestock coming over from the Emerald Isle could get a man and his family a foot in the door ,so to speak.

 

It's not about being involved in these sports, of which I'm not, but it's about having a big interest in where our dogs came from and learning a very interesting aspect of history that involves our ancestors and our dogs.

Funny enough, talking to folk over the years about the old sports / bloodlines etc. not everything I've heard or know comes out of books.

It fascinates me.

 

A man hears what he wants to hear...and disregards the rest...or so the song goes...im no History expert but in regards to the pioneers of the APBT who made an impact on the breed...J.P Colby springs to mind...he emigrated to America from Wales taking dogs with him...yes he imported dogs from Ireland...but also from England too...then theres Earl Tudor...whos favored line of dogs where the Henry dogs...an English Bloodline...and of course theres Cockney Charlie Lloyd...with his famous foundation dog Pilot...a dog whelped in a pub in Walsall...i think yours is a bit of a romantic view...and one that over states Irelands involvment in the development of the breed...just my opinion

 

Colby's family background was Welsh , but he was born in USA, most of his dogs bloodline came from Irish imports ,,

 

Like i said...Im no history expert...i wernt far wrong he was of Welsh decent...my point being that the APBT wasnt a dog of mostly Irish invention...the English, Welsh, Scottish,Cornish and others all played apart...alot of Colby's dogs came out of Lloyds Pilot...so how could these be classed as 'Irish' imports??...in the history of the breed i remember once reading (and im sure you will correct me if im wrong) that at one point 90% of all game dogs where in Texas...and 90% of Texas game dogs where Dibo bred...now if you trace back the breeding of Tudors Dibo he goes back to Lloyds Pilot on the top...Henry dogs on the bottom...thats alot of English blood right there in one of the most important stud dogs in the history of the breed...i accept the Irish play a big part in the development of the breed...but you boys can not take all the credit!

[AKA-BRINDLE 879]

 

 

While i have read about the history of dogs i find far too many get caught up with the history. How many litters are sold with the selling point being psycho is in the pedigree lol even so many generations back.

Are you unfamiliar with the concept of line breeding? ...

Im not on about a few who may actually have a breeding plan. It just seemed a point when psycho was the name used to shift pups bred by any old dog who had his name pop up somewhere back in the pedigree. Abit like a time when the pakis were selling huge red nose dogs and calling em reid lines lol.

 

I'm not anti staffords or anything I have been around some lovely ones. I just see alot of stafford owners seem to be obsessed with pedigrees or names far back in the pedigree. Other than the legal situation to stop people owning one, is there any task a staff can do that a pitbull couldnt do better?

 

Are you not bored of posting that?...I've lost count of the times you've post that or similar to it...maybe that got you a pat on the back from the big boys at one point or something...but you seem to have had to shoehorn it into the thread this time...pakis and rednoses...kid breeding for names on peds...bloody Psycho and the old forum classic... pitbulls are better than Staff's...after all this time is that really all you have to add to the conversation!???????????