Lamping Or Not

[Bosun11 537]

Penny, maybe its because of my ability (or lack of it!) as a trainer that I use that method and the fact that my dogs have always been predominantly lamp dogs but it's always worked for me.

In all seriousness though, because my dogs are lamp dogs and because of time and effort in bringing a puppy on, I'd never want to leave any margin to error and have a youngster that hunts up, or is anything but the 'consummate student' of the lamp.

I'm sure there are other better methods folk use but thats what I do and so far, so good.

Edited to add... Yer, I always ensure my pups have plenty of walks and daytime experience on the worst of ground I lamp before I start 'em. In fact they need to go over just about every type you can get 'em on. Only makes sense to do so.

Some of the most hazardous are the dunes systems here in the NW. Ground that is literally honeycombed with holes and undulating terrain, ground many experienced lads wouldn't even slip a dog by day never mind night but if youngsters know that ground growing up they never to have any problems with it.

[skycat 6,173]

 

Interesting reads there Bosun and wirral countryman: I've always entered pups by day, then gone on to lamping once they have steadied down a bit, are ferreting well, and hunting by day sensibly as opposed to just tearing about. I can honestly say that I've never had a pup go off on the lamp looking for game at night, and that's across the board with all sorts of different types, not just ultra biddable Collie types.

 

I even run them by day as they are growing up on the same ground they will later lamp as adults, especially tricky ground with lots of pitfalls, dykes, holes in the ground, banks: seen a couple of young dogs have bad accidents sailing into a dyke at night when they haven't learned the lie of the land by day first.

 

Have I just been lucky?

 

I suppose it boils down to having the confidence in the dogs obedience . I agree it's important to show a pup as much as possible as it grows so it knows the dangers that they may come up against . I try to show my pups different types of terrain so they are unfazed and safe when they run. ................................. and now i'm not saying you run your dogs on dangerous ground but for anyone unsure weather to run a dog on dangerous ground DO NOT DO IT. It's not the worth breaking a dogs leg for the sake of a rabbit no matter how well educated a dog may be....................................I had to get that in because it would be easy for a novice to read that and think it ok to run a dog on unsuitable ground just because it been there in the day .

 

 

Good point there: some land will never be suitable for lamping if you value your dog: having said that, the dog that knows dangerous ground like the back of its paw by day will know exactly where it is at night: I lamp a lot from the top of big banks, where the rabbits run back up towards me, and often straight over the top and down the other side: scary stuff unless the dog knows what it is doing. I'd never take a young and over enthusiastic dog there: wait until they are older and have bought most of the T shirts.

[nothernlite 18,085]

Interesting reads there Bosun and wirral countryman: I've always entered pups by day, then gone on to lamping once they have steadied down a bit, are ferreting well, and hunting by day sensibly as opposed to just tearing about. I can honestly say that I've never had a pup go off on the lamp looking for game at night, and that's across the board with all sorts of different types, not just ultra biddable Collie types.

 

I even run them by day as they are growing up on the same ground they will later lamp as adults, especially tricky ground with lots of pitfalls, dykes, holes in the ground, banks: seen a couple of young dogs have bad accidents sailing into a dyke at night when they haven't learned the lie of the land by day first.

 

Have I just been lucky?

snap penny thats the way i do ferreting from a early age get them settled down and there obediance sorted dont lamp them till there 2nd or third season and it worked fine for me head down during the day head up at night

Edited July 29, 2013 by nothernlite

[skycat 6,173]

Penny, maybe its because of my ability (or lack of it!) as a trainer that I use that method and the fact that my dogs have always been predominantly lamp dogs but it's always worked for me.

In all seriousness though, because my dogs are lamp dogs and because of time and effort in bringing a puppy on, I'd never want to leave any margin to error and have a youngster that hunts up, or is anything but the 'consummate student' of the lamp.

I'm sure there are other better methods folk use but thats what I do and so far, so good.

Edited to add... Yer, I always ensure my pups have plenty of walks and daytime experience on the worst of ground I lamp before I start 'em. In fact they need to go over just about every type you can get 'em on. Only makes sense to do so.

Some of the most hazardous are the dunes systems here in the NW. Ground that is literally honeycombed with holes and undulating terrain, ground many experienced lads wouldn't even slip a dog by day never mind night but if youngsters know that ground growing up they never to have any problems with it.

 

I do a bit of everything with my dogs, so I want them to be able to work by day with their noses before letting them run the beam. There are some I haven't entered to the lamp until they were well over a year old, knowing that they were still too headstrong. Schuck is a good example: very driven nose dog. She was 14 months old before I took her out on the lamp, by which time she'd got her head together, had her first season (heat) and steadied down nicely. I think different types of dog mature mentally at different ages: Saluki influence in the blood needs a good year before the dog is really ready to listen to you, sometimes longer!

But maybe that's just me being a sh*t dog trainer

[Wales1234 5,513]

My last pup first thing I did was recall recall and more recall till it got to a whistle taking her everywhere with all distractions then.moved on to retrieving day and night with a dummy I made out of rabbit fur sometime in.the night not throwing and slipping her letting her go then lamp off caling back once the retriving was 100% she was ferreting and bushing with terriers and lurchers getting her use working as a team and marking shes now 14 months and catching well on the lamp and also in the day never hunted up lamp off shes by my side also when jumping fences she waits till im over ! Thats just the way I done it maybe I was just lucky

[baw 4,360]

 

 

Interesting reads there Bosun and wirral countryman: I've always entered pups by day, then gone on to lamping once they have steadied down a bit, are ferreting well, and hunting by day sensibly as opposed to just tearing about. I can honestly say that I've never had a pup go off on the lamp looking for game at night, and that's across the board with all sorts of different types, not just ultra biddable Collie types.

 

I even run them by day as they are growing up on the same ground they will later lamp as adults, especially tricky ground with lots of pitfalls, dykes, holes in the ground, banks: seen a couple of young dogs have bad accidents sailing into a dyke at night when they haven't learned the lie of the land by day first.

 

Have I just been lucky?

snap penny thats the way i do ferreting from a early age get them settled down and there obediance sorted dont lamp them till there 2nd or third season and it worked fine for me head down during the day head up at night

Same here mate. Learn their trade on the bolters from the ferrets. I've always done this, I find it gives you a better level of control over what the dog gets to chase, situation etc plus teaches it patience and gives you a more level headed dog. I've never had a problem moving on to lamping when the time comes or going back to day time.

[robadoo 212]

Adam if you get your recall and retreive in the day spot on first it shouldn't be a problem . The first few outings on the lamp you can call the recall as you would in the day , and don't worry about being noisy , just as long as you get the dog back to you when either catches or misses . Once it gets in the routine of coming back and learns what is required you won't have to recall .

[dytkos 17,793]

Maybe I'm just lucky as I'm defo not a dog trainer. Having said that, my dogs are reasonably biddable most of the time. Get a bond with your mutt and put it in all sorts of situations whereby it will have lots of experiences and it will adapt dependent on what is required.

I lamp, ferret, mooch and "other stuff" with my 2 , mostly together and have very few problems except for the occaisional "accident"

 

Perhaps its the bit of collie in them

 

Cheers, D.

[Boris??? 12]

I'm not a "serious hunter" , for me the dog is a pet and companion first, so this may have an influence on my judgement and I am quite ready to be shot down by those that consider themselves to be hunting, coursing or lamping gods. That said I have had 10 years good service out of a dog that someone else abandoned because he wouldn't / couldn't hunt so you can make your own decisions...

 

I would say that you need to take the time to have absolute confidence in your dog's obedience - this is a 2 way street, if you are anxious the dog will be too. If they are anxious the dog may not do anything you ask of it or may even start doing other stuff to try and please you. Be aware of as much of your surroundings as possible so that nothing surprises you or the dog, that way there is fewer chances for the dog to react in a way that you are not expecting. Once you and the dog are confident in each other then new situations are easier to handle and both you and the dog enjoy it more and you never stop learning. Working on the little and often principle you can re-train and iron out wrinkles - whoever said that you can't teach an old dog new tricks didn't try hard enough.... As such I generally get what I want out of my dogs but I am not bothered if it takes 2 weeks, 2 months or even 2 years as I am in it for the long haul.

 

Working this way, I never feel that my dog is not performing as it should, though I do ask myself if I am

[jamesmc 582]

 

 

Interesting reads there Bosun and wirral countryman: I've always entered pups by day, then gone on to lamping once they have steadied down a bit, are ferreting well, and hunting by day sensibly as opposed to just tearing about. I can honestly say that I've never had a pup go off on the lamp looking for game at night, and that's across the board with all sorts of different types, not just ultra biddable Collie types.

 

I even run them by day as they are growing up on the same ground they will later lamp as adults, especially tricky ground with lots of pitfalls, dykes, holes in the ground, banks: seen a couple of young dogs have bad accidents sailing into a dyke at night when they haven't learned the lie of the land by day first.

 

Have I just been lucky?

snap penny thats the way i do ferreting from a early age get them settled down and there obediance sorted dont lamp them till there 2nd or third season and it worked fine for me head down during the day head up at night

Same here mate. Learn their trade on the bolters from the ferrets. I've always done this, I find it gives you a better level of control over what the dog gets to chase, situation etc plus teaches it patience and gives you a more level headed dog. I've never had a problem moving on to lamping when the time comes or going back to day time.

 

GOT TO AGREE LADS.. ,..I HAVE TO SAY I THINK FERRETING PLAYS A BIG PART IN TRAINING A DOG,THEY LEARN QUITE ALOT FERRETING,ALL THE BASICS ARE USUALLY COVERED,COMMANDS,PATIENCE,RETREIVING,ETC....ONLY DIFFERENCE IS I START MINE ON THE LAMP AND DAYTIME AT THE SAME TIME.....NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS....SO FAR... ,BUT WE ALL DO THINGS DIFFERENT....

[wirral countryman 2,110]

I've just popped back for lunch and caught up on the posts and there's one common theme running through it all and thats basic obedience with a good recall,some good posts off experienced people like Skycat,etc,and no its not luck you have'nt messed up so far because knowing you and the other experienced members off here that have added to it there will be a good standard of recall and obedience with all your dogs,we are talking about inexperienced lads with maybe out with their first lurcher and maybe crosses that are sometimes not gifted with the intelligence of a collie cross.

I to take out all my dogs from 6-8 weeks ferreting,bushing,digging,shooting,ratting, in fact everyday they are constantly with me and so I expect them to listen,wait when told and be obedient to command but a first time dog owner would find it a very hard task to differentiate the expectation of lampwork from daytime mouching,what we find second nature is not what a newbie to lurchers would do,I think there are a lot of poor lampers about these days that go on to show other new lads to the game their own second rate methods,lamping has changed a great deal since I started in the 70's,we only went on dark windy nights,now young lads lamp 7 nights a week regardless of wind,moon,rain,etc,sometimes arranging it weeks in advance,then wonder why the numbers they catch as the season goes on dwindle quickly,every rabbit missed is an educated one that will run in taking the others with it next time,its like lamping a big moon with no wind and yet you will read on here "anyone lamping tonight" if its pitch black and windy then your dog has no option to coming back once that lamp goes off,a good lampdog in the right hands is a joy to behold and well worth the time of getting it right,my advice to anyone starting off is find a good mentor and listen,learn the right way,atb,WM

[baw 4,360]

I tell what guys, most of you are talking about taking a dog out daytime can spoil it on the lamp, hunting up etc. this is a trait I don't like even in daytime. The only time I don't bother is when out a walk where there ain't much stuff, dogs can mouch about. But on permission, the last thing I want is the dog f***ing off and doing its own thing. Ok it happens from time to time, some animal scents are just too tempting but hunting up can be a liability.

[birddog 1,354]

i think most dogs are smart enough to recognise the different disciplines and that walking the woods / fields, a bit of ferreting or mooching with a young pup whilst working on its recall, retrieving, jumping, obedience etc can only do good, if a pups recall is good when ferreting for example is good with nets, ferrets, dead rabbits, other dogs and all sorts of scenty type temptations it can only imo be a good thing for future lamping or lamping training, for me as much experiences as possible with a pup is the way to go ie if a pup is well stockbroken by day there is less chance of a mistake at night or if its retrieving is good by day its going to be less of a worry on early lamping trips, a lot of the training we put in and the skills a dogs learns when they're young are used day and night, lamping or mooching, netting or ferreting i think its down to giving the pup experience and confidence as to when to use them

[birddog 1,354]

I tell what guys, most of you are talking about taking a dog out daytime can spoil it on the lamp, hunting up etc. this is a trait I don't like even in daytime. The only time I don't bother is when out a walk where there ain't much stuff, dogs can mouch about. But on permission, the last thing I want is the dog f*****g off and doing its own thing. Ok it happens from time to time, some animal scents are just too tempting but hunting up can be a liability.

surely 'f*****g off and doing its own thing' is different from hunting up.......a spaniel or pointer hunts up but are under control......how could you teach a dog to gate net properly if it hadn't been taught to hunt up under control ? how could it mark a hidden bolt hole if it didn't hunt up ?

[dytkos 17,793]

I tell what guys, most of you are talking about taking a dog out daytime can spoil it on the lamp, hunting up etc. this is a trait I don't like even in daytime. The only time I don't bother is when out a walk where there ain't much stuff, dogs can mouch about. But on permission, the last thing I want is the dog f*****g off and doing its own thing. Ok it happens from time to time, some animal scents are just too tempting but hunting up can be a liability.

 

 

Surely if you've spent time with the dog(s) and got a reasonable standard of obedience, they will, if given time

out, "know" what they are doing

Lamping, straight back when the light goes out, (normally ) daytime, if the quarry has bested them/escaped,

back to the slip, so they can have some more sport.

 

Had them "won't come back types backalong - not again

Put the hours into your dog - if you want something half decent IMO

 

Cheers, D.