.17 Wsm Update

[Craig83 52]

In reality none of us can comment until its here really. Lets play it out and see what comes good and what doesn't

[alan81 110]

 

if winchester can't make hmr ammo that is reliable why the hell make a faster pile of crap? sort hmr brass and ammo that your allready selling before starting something new.

I quite agree,Hornady have probably recognised the fact that this nail gun cartridge is just another trendy cartridge like the shite .17hmr, designed to relieve the "must have the latest thing"shooters of some cash,it will be all the rage for 5 minutes when it comes out, and we will see the endless stream of posts like (what scope for my new nail gun) (rabbit shot at 3 miles with nail gun) crap that we see for the hmr all the time,then the inevitable, wsm burst case,case stuck, my nail gun blew up ect ect, if you must have a .17 get a proper one a centerfire that you can reload and wont be suffering from all the same issues as hmr,get a .17 hornet or a .17 rem, not a bleedin nail gun

 

I take it you don't like the .17 hmr. I had one and I know several lads who have them now and we all think they are a great gun, very accurate and never had any of the problems you listed also reloading doesn't suit everyone pluse why bother reload for the .17 for rabbit when you can buy 50 rounds for 17 euro that's 34 cent a round which is probably cheaper than reloading for the .17 hornet or .17 rem. one mans "shite" is another mans gold. there's more to life than centerfire.

[charlie caller 3,654]

Perhaps the fact that you say HAD one speaks volumes no I don't have a great love for the hmr, I accept that it is an accurate round, and perhaps yes it does have a place, you were obviously lucky to have avoided any of the issues regarding split cases, bullets lodging in barrels and blowing the extractor off the bolt ect, an internet search will yield plenty of materiel regarding these issues, but it is loud, affected terribly by the wind and is not really a suitable fox round despite what some may lead us to believe, you say why bother to reload for the .17 I assume you mean the .17 centerfires? as rimfire cases are none reloadable, well the reason for doing that are the same as any centerfire calibre I am sure you don't need me to elaborate, to my mind the primary use of the .17 cf will be foxes in this country, if I want to shoot rabbits I have a .22rf that does the job very nicely, I just don't see the point of pushing the rimfire envelope, when so much better already exists.

[alan81 110]

Yes I had 1 and to be honest I'd like to have it back but there is such little difference between the .17 hmr and the .22 wmr in the field it's not worth the hassle of waiting a few months for the licence to come. Both guns will stop a fox at 130 yards no problem and maybe further I just wouldn't take the shot any further than 130. They are affected by wind that's why I changed to the .22 wmr but so are they affected by wind. In the field both guns are very similar and very good, the only reason I prefer the .17 hmr is it is a lot flatter shooting. Both guns are great on rabbit out to 200 yards and fox 130 and under.

[kenj 131]

Just read charlie caller's post and don't think I'll be chopping in my HMR any day soon. Ok, he is interested in foxes, but goes on to say his .22 rf shoots rabbits very nicely. So does mine out to yards, but if he'd been with me last evening, he would not have got a look in.

The field I was on, used to have a lot of rabbits, which i shot with my Webley Viper air rifle. As time went on the only weapon suitable was the HMR. The grass had just been cut this week on this open field and I was approaching slowly along a hedge line to get in range of a dozen, or so rabbits 300 yards away. I was in cammo, but at 200 yards they were beginning to sit up and take notice. At 150 yards, some had gone back in. At this point I got down and belly crawled another 30 yards, losing a couple more. At this point the nearest ones were ready to depart and shooting off the tripod, shot three at 120 to 130 yards, before the rest cleared off. There were two more over in the corner and I crawled another 50 yards, before one pricked up and moved to the edge. At around 150 yards I took a chest shot and downed it in one. The other was still unaware and crawled another 20 yards and placed a head shot bang on target. My .22, even with a trajectory chart, would not have stood a chance at those ranges. There was a light wind coming from the right ahead.

[Alsone 789]

Well if wsm performs as stated then you could have taken them down at 300yds without moving as drop is 7 inches with a 150 yd zero from memory.

[charlie caller 3,654]

Well if wsm performs as stated then you could have taken them down at 300yds without moving as drop is 7 inches with a 150 yd zero from memory.

Well all I can say is that shootin rabbits @ 300 yards with any rf is not on, I don't care how good it is, are you seriously telling me that this nail gun is going to be accurate enough @ 300 yards to guarantee a head shot? I don't think so, lets have a bit of respect for the quarry eh! if you really want to shoot rabbits at 300,400 500,600, yards buy a .243 or a .25-06.

[Alsone 789]

Sorry I meant 250 yards.

 

But either way, 7 inch is better than .22 Hornet (12.7 inches with factory ammo) and it still has as much energy as the Hornet on factory ammo, (150ft lbs vs 163 ft lbs) so where's the difference?

 

You telling me 150ft lbs at 1,838 ft sec won't drop a rabbit cleanly especially with a ballistic tip?

 

That's also, more than someone with a .22 Magnum uses at 100 yards against a fox!

 

It's also as fast as the HMR is at 100 yds and as much energy as the HMR has at approx 70 yds.

 

So you wouldn't shoot a rabbit at 70 yds with HMR? C'mon!

 

I'd also head shoot with a 7 inch drop although I'd argue it wasn't necessary with those figures.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Alsone

[charlie caller 3,654]

No what I am saying is that @ 300 yards if you shoot the bunny in the arse with your .17 anything it will run off wounded,of course the round has the energy to despatch it if it hits the right spot,but I just don't think advocating ultra long range shots on live quarry with a rf is a good thing,there is just too much chance of wounding.

[Alsone 789]

I fail to see the difference between a centre fire at 250yds with 1800fps and 150 ft / lbs and a rim fire at 250yds with 1800fps and 150 ft lbs.

[alan81 110]

if the .17wsm is capable and accurate enough to stop a rabbit at 250 yards and the person taking the shot has the experience and is confident in his shooting then why shouldn't he take the shot. that's like saying you shouldn't take the shot with a .22 hornet.

[charlie caller 3,654]

I quite agree with both of you, the bullet as I stated before has ample energy to despatch a fox never mind a rabbit at 250 yards, irrespective of if it is fired from a rimfire or a centerfire, no argument there, however we did start talking about 300 yards, and yes Alsone you did qualify what you said and changed to 250 yards, the point is this, stretching things to the max with relatively low powered calibres is sooner or later going to result in wounded quarry, tiny bullets are affected by the wind a lot, and lose velocity quickly, however I accept it Can be done without question,I just think that a lot of shooters now seem to rely on the potential (relatively) long range capability of their rifles over good old fieldcraft, and getting within a sensible range of the quarry, as an example, my .243 is quite capable of killing deer at ranges in excess of a quarter mile and more, but would I take a shot at these stretched ranges? No I have far too much respect for my quarry.

[Alsone 789]

I quite agree Charlie on the field craft bit. Personally I'd go for the head shot if I was taking a shot and that range and only take it if the body was upwind, so it should be hit or miss. That said, I doubt I would shoot at the range, I was just illustrating the point about comparable velocities and energies.

 

I did change the range from 300 to 250, mainly because I remembered the bullet drops incorrectly and only realised I quoted figures from memory that applied to the closer range.

 

There is a new video up about this calibre. There's a full transcript below which I actually got more from than the video. He does report 1 case of a casing bulging under pressure, but puts that down to loading inconsistencies with Winchester.

 

BTW, I'm not hiding anything, its warts and all with these vids. I like the idea of a rim fire that can do this, but equally, I'm not going to hide any failings:

 

http://www.gunblast.com/Savage-Bmag.htm

Edited July 25, 2013 by Alsone

[charlie caller 3,654]

Well however good or bad it turns out to be I hope they can avoid the case issues surrounding the hmr, it will be a shame if they cant, but we shall see.

[Craig83 52]

Iv not had a problem yet touch wood