Good Documentary About The Dingo In Australia

[Saluki246 1,053]

I have a few old videos and dvds of dingoes; two are with Rob Bredl (the barefoot bushman) and one is Wildlife on One and they all seem to be saying the same as above i.e. it's not so much the dingoes that are a problem but rather the crossbreds.

 

One of my kelpies is cream and is very dingo-like in appearance (and demeanour). I've been told two different stories about why the creams are fairly rare and my guess is that it's a combination of both. Some say that when the kelpie was originally being developed all the cream pups were put down as many were trying to deny the addition of dingo blood...though not all dingoes are cream and you can even get black and tans! I've also heard that creams are frowned on by some as they don't stand out as much against the dead grass background colour so subsequently need to work that much harder to move the sheep. This kind of makes sense as many who say they don't like creams in general then go on to say that a particular cream is one of their best working dogs.

 

Thanks for that Neal, very interesting.

From all the research i have done and the above documentary's, it seems the main down fall of the true wild dingo, is the ever increasing population of feral dogs, cross breeding with them.

Shame, would hate to see the dingo go the same way as the tazmanian tiger!!

Neal, would be great to see some pics of your cream kelpie, and other kelpies you have, i like the breed a lot, reminds me of dingos, apparently, they sometimes behave the same as them, how true this is, i don't know.

[Neal 1,873]

Saluki 246: if you put kelpie into the search on here you'll get a number of threads. There was a particularly long one a few years back and it had photos of my three on it...but it took me ages to work out how to put them up and I've not done it since.

[Saluki246 1,053]

Saluki 246: if you put kelpie into the search on here you'll get a number of threads. There was a particularly long one a few years back and it had photos of my three on it...but it took me ages to work out how to put them up and I've not done it since.

 

Not to worry Neal, ill do that and see if i can find it, thanks.

[bird 9,941]

Saluki 246: if you put kelpie into the search on here you'll get a number of threads. There was a particularly long one a few years back and it had photos of my three on it...but it took me ages to work out how to put them up and I've not done it since.

 

wasnt a kelpie just a of border collie that was took over to Oz in the 1st place, not say dingo may not have bred with the collie at some point.? But the sheep dogs out there i would think kept away from the dingos as the farmers would kill them if to close to there sheep+farms.Iknow ACD got dingo in its blood, but thought the kelpie would have try to been kept pure breed.?

[TOMO 26,367]

Used to like his program's Neal ,,,the bare foot bushman,, had real thick feet didn't he,,, mind it's not surprising.. Think he had a dingo rescue type place didn't he.

 

A good mate of mine who I worked with abroad is from up near Brisbane ,, grew up on a farm,, and they all yoused to go to school bare foot

[Saluki246 1,053]

Their was another good program that use to be on, called, 'Bush Tucker man', does anyone remember that?, It was also based in Australia

Dean, i try searching for that topic, but could not find it, no matter.

[TOMO 26,367]

Les hiddings was his name,, he was recently on ray mears program about survival in oz,,, hiddings was in ozy army

[Neal 1,873]

 

Saluki 246: if you put kelpie into the search on here you'll get a number of threads. There was a particularly long one a few years back and it had photos of my three on it...but it took me ages to work out how to put them up and I've not done it since.

 

wasnt a kelpie just a of border collie that was took over to Oz in the 1st place, not say dingo may not have bred with the collie at some point.? But the sheep dogs out there i would think kept away from the dingos as the farmers would kill them if to close to there sheep+farms.Iknow ACD got dingo in its blood, but thought the kelpie would have try to been kept pure breed.?

 

Hi Bird, My Mother in law imported an amazing kelpie book for me for my birthday last year (over 700 pages). It goes into great detail about all the various views, myths and legends of kelpie origins. To try to squeeze it into a nut shell I'd say that the original kelpies were Scottish collies from Sutherland (there was no such thing as a "Border Collie" at the time and, ironically, the first country to officially recognise them was Australia ).

 

Although all the original dogs were dingo-free there have been several cases since of dingo blood being added. Some added it but denied it whereas others were open about it. There's also been occasional out-crossing to border collies; one big kelpie stud has recently used a first cross. The main thing for breeders over there (as indeed over here with working collies) is that they're fit for purpose which is why many border collie lines in Australia have a more kelpie-like appearance.

 

Another reason for the occasional addition of collie blood is that whereas the original kelpie was an all-rounder i.e. yard and paddock (that's pen and race and hill to us Brits) many lines have focused on the yard work at the expense of a dog which will cast widely enough. And with paddocks that size you need wide casting! This is why many people think of kelpies as hard dogs...because we see the dog which backs and barks in film footage of them working in the yard and think this is all they do. Some breeders think it's impossible to breed a dog which does both well and so breed (or keep) two types. Incidentally, collies tend to win their paddock trials whereas kelpies tend to win the yard trials. However, a number of studs are still aiming for all-rounders and it's good to see that a lot of recent imports to the British Isles are from such lines.

 

Not quite a nut shell I'm afraid and apologies for veering away from the original dingo theme of the thread.

 

N.B. I've not even touched the prickly question of the origins of the original dogs...that's way beyond me...but in my humble opinion I think the collies used had some Scandinavian blood (not just because of the pricked ears I hasten to add!)

 

P.S. Sorry Tomo, I forgot to answer your question. In one of my DVDs Rob Bredl gets one of his dingoes DNA tested and discovers she's pure dingo. There was another bloke called Bruce Jacobs who ran a dingo farm including several rare Alpine dingoes. He died a few years ago and his farm was taken over by someone else but I don't know what's happened to it since. When they found his body, one of his dingoes was curled up in bed with him.

Edited July 27, 2013 by Neal

[General lee 979]

Bird kangol dogs kill wolves in a thread by dan Edwards about coyotes everyone was saying no dog could kill a wolf but if the kangol dogs can it must be possible not having a dig it's a genuine question

[bird 9,941]

 

 

Saluki 246: if you put kelpie into the search on here you'll get a number of threads. There was a particularly long one a few years back and it had photos of my three on it...but it took me ages to work out how to put them up and I've not done it since.

 

wasnt a kelpie just a of border collie that was took over to Oz in the 1st place, not say dingo may not have bred with the collie at some point.? But the sheep dogs out there i would think kept away from the dingos as the farmers would kill them if to close to there sheep+farms.Iknow ACD got dingo in its blood, but thought the kelpie would have try to been kept pure breed.?

 

Hi Bird, My Mother in law imported an amazing kelpie book for me for my birthday last year (over 700 pages). It goes into great detail about all the various views, myths and legends of kelpie origins. To try to squeeze it into a nut shell I'd say that the original kelpies were Scottish collies from Sutherland (there was no such thing as a "Border Collie" at the time and, ironically, the first country to officially recognise them was Australia ).

 

Although all the original dogs were dingo-free there have been several cases since of dingo blood being added. Some added it but denied it whereas others were open about it. There's also been occasional out-crossing to border collies; one big kelpie stud has recently used a first cross. The main thing for breeders over there (as indeed over here with working collies) is that they're fit for purpose which is why many border collie lines in Australia have a more kelpie-like appearance.

 

Another reason for the occasional addition of collie blood is that whereas the original kelpie was an all-rounder i.e. yard and paddock (that's pen and race and hill to us Brits) many lines have focused on the yard work at the expense of a dog which will cast widely enough. And with paddocks that size you need wide casting! This is why many people think of kelpies as hard dogs...because we see the dog which backs and barks in film footage of them working in the yard and think this is all they do. Some breeders think it's impossible to breed a dog which does both well and so breed (or keep) two types. Incidentally, collies tend to win their paddock trials whereas kelpies tend to win the yard trials. However, a number of studs are still aiming for all-rounders and it's good to see that a lot of recent imports to the British Isles are from such lines.

 

Not quite a nut shell I'm afraid and apologies for veering away from the original dingo theme of the thread.

 

N.B. I've not even touched the prickly question of the origins of the original dogs...that's way beyond me...but in my humble opinion I think the collies used had some Scandinavian blood (not just because of the pricked ears I hasten to add!)

 

P.S. Sorry Tomo, I forgot to answer your question. In one of my DVDs Rob Bredl gets one of his dingoes DNA tested and discovers she's pure dingo. There was another bloke called Bruce Jacobs who ran a dingo farm including several rare Alpine dingoes. He died a few years ago and his farm was taken over by someone else but I don't know what's happened to it since. When they found his body, one of his dingoes was curled up in bed with him.

 

 

from of a Oz site,

 

 

 

 

The foundation of the Kelpie breed is now well documented. The breed originated from the intermixing of the progeny of three pairs of 'Working Collies' imported into Australia by three early landholders. The foundation female, born of black and tan working collies on Mr. George Robertson's 'Worrock' Station on the Glenelg River, Victoria, eventually came into the possession of Mr. J.D. Gleeson, who named her Kelpie.

 

‘Jack’ Gleeson was employed on the Murray's 'Dunrobbin' station, which adjoined 'Worrock' Station, at the time of Kelpie's birth. Leaving 'Dunrobbin' shortly afterwards he worked on 'Ballarook' Station where he broke in Kelpie to sheep work. He then accepted the position of overseer on 'North Bolero' Station in the Merool (now Ardlethan) district of New South Wales.

Whilst crossing the Murrumbidgee River on his way to take up the position he met an old friend, Mr. Mark Tully. Mr. Tully gave him an all black dog named Moss, who had been bred by the Rutherfords on their 'Yarrawong' property from stock imported from their family in Scotland. Kelpie was mated to Moss and whelped a litter shortly after arriving at 'North Bolero'; this mating was highly successful and a great line of dogs evolved.

Messrs Elliot and Allen of 'Geraldra' Station near Stockingbingal, not far from 'North Bolero', had imported from Scotland a pair of black and tans, Brutus and Jenny. Mated on the voyage out, Jenny whelped a litter shortly after their arrival. In the litter of black and tans were two red pups. Caesar, one of the black and tan male pups, was given to Mr. John Rich of 'Narriah', a property which adjoined 'North Bolero'. Gleeson's Kelpie was subsequently mated to Caesar and a black and tan bitch pup, named Kelpie after her dam, was given to Mr. C.T.W. King. The outstanding performance of King's Kelpie at the first Sheep Dog Trial conducted at the Forbes Show, New South Wales, resulted in the eventual naming of the Breed. At first, dogs of the strain were known as 'Kelpie's pups', but by the turn of the century the majority of dogs of ‘Kelpie-like’ appearance where described as Kelpies regardless of origin.

>Gleeson's Kelpie' was mated on numerous occasions to both Caesar and to Moss with outstanding results and the progeny came into the hands of the landholders in the Merool district and were greatly interbred. A female (a Caesar x Gleeson' kelpie) was mated to Caesar's litter brother Laddie to produced Sally; Sally when mated to Moss, produced The Barb, an all-black dog like his sire, which gained his name from the racehorse, which won the Melbourne Cup.

Kings Biddy - Born Circa 1900

For many years his descendants were known as 'Barbs' and even today many people persist in describing black members of the family in this way. The original Barb was a blend of the same strains that established the breed now known as Kelpies.

 

 

King's Kelpie', when mated to Moss, produced a number of outstanding dogs. From this line came Clyde who, when mated to Gay, a bitch bred by Mr. Willis and acquired by Mr. John Quinn from the Beveridges of 'Dollar Vale' Station, Junee, N.S.W., produced one of the most famous of all Kelpies - a blue dog called Coil. Mr. Quinn won the first Sydney Trial with Gay in 1896 and in 1898 won the event with Coil, scoring the ultimate 200 points. Coil's performance is even more remarkable when one learns that he made the second run with a broken foreleg.

Mr. Quinn's achievements, first with Gay and then with Coil, established the popularity of the strain for both trial and station work, a popularity which has remained ever since. A little later Messrs King and McLeod established their famous Stud on the bloodline of King's Kelpie, mixed with dogs purchased from Mr. Quinn. After the turn of the century Messrs King and McLeod introduced new imported blood into the established strain, something for which they are often criticized. Mr. Quinn continued to breed strictly within the strain until his death in 1930's.

 

[General lee 979]

Interesting I like to read the history of dogs and breeders

[bird 9,941]

Bird kangol dogs kill wolves in a thread by dan Edwards about coyotes everyone was saying no dog could kill a wolf but if the kangol dogs can it must be possible not having a dig it's a genuine question

 

the Kangals that kill wolves inTurkey, the wolves are alot smaller than what Dan as in the USA , Timber wolf these wolves can hit 14st.Maybe 2 Kangals would kill 1 timber wolf, as been said Kangals are very powerful and they are about 12st, and supposed to have the most powerful jaw of all breeds dog, so you never know.

[JDHUNTING 1,817]

 

 

Bird kangol dogs kill wolves in a thread by dan Edwards about coyotes everyone was saying no dog could kill a wolf but if the kangol dogs can it must be possible not having a dig it's a genuine question

the Kangals that kill wolves inTurkey, the wolves are alot smaller than what Dan as in the USA , Timber wolf these wolves can hit 14st.Maybe 2 Kangals would kill 1 timber wolf, as been said Kangals are very powerful and they are about 12st, and supposed to have the most powerful jaw of all breeds dog, so you never know.

Im no wolf expert but from all ive ever seen about wolves no way would i have thought they get anywere near 14 st that the thick end of 200lb. I was under the impression they maxed at -90lb. And from some of the pics ive seen of kangals ive no doubt theyd be capable of killing wolves but would be hard pushed to catch them.though i suppose they didnt wear them spikey collars for fun.

[JDHUNTING 1,817]

Just googled it male timber wolves can reach 130-140lb if the sources are correct so still a big k9 wouldnt want a pack of them on your case

[TOMO 26,367]

Is that right ray,, 14 stone,,, feck me thats dam near 200 pound,,, i never realised they got that big...

 

intresting post that you put up ray .... and yours neal always will have a soft spot for kelpies even if my cross had a few isues.. and look at that pic of that black one from 1900,, what a lean atheletic looking creature,, real nice..good thread cheers gents