Is It Legal??

[Alsone 789]

Not sure about the legality of trapping dogs as they are someone elses property and entirely different therefore to trapping a wild animal even if non lethal traps are used.

 

What you could do is video the dogs and any damage they cause then call the police. There is sufficient evidence then.

 

If you're a BASC / SASC's member, I suggest getting advice from them also.

[beast 1,884]

now im open to correction here, but i would have thought that a free range poultry set up would be fenced against foxes and wouldnt fox proof fencing be enough to keep dogs out? and if not, could you not make some pretty simple adaptations to do so? cats are admittedly a different kettle of fish, but i would think you could still fence against them if they are that much of a problem? i would have thought that say 2metre mesh with hotwires along bottom and top would do the job, as long as there are no overhanging branches to let the cats over? look long and hard at the fences, you should be able to sort these out well enough to stop your dogs at least so you wont be put in a position where you have to fire on them.

 

i also seem to remember reading somewhere that cats cease to be personal possessions once they leave your property and are essentially the property of whoever owns the land they are on at the time, like game. in effect they become feral the moment they are allowed to roam out of the garden. tis may be bollocks, but its rattling round in the back of my mind somewhere......

[Alsone 789]

There's an answer to trapping dogs in another BASC document:

 

 

Domestic cats and dogs are classed as property under the Theft and Criminal Damage Acts in England, Wales and Northern Ireland or in Scotland under common law and section 78 of the Criminal Justice(Scotland) act 1980.

 

Consequently it could be an offence to set traps intentionally, or recklessly, to kill or injure these or other domestic animals and may lead to prosecution and legal action for damages should a pet come to any harm or go missing.

 

A cat's owner cannot be held liable for its actions

 

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CGUQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.basc.org.uk%2Fdownload.cfm%2Fdocid%2FE996C35D-4DDE-4D8B-89D348796FCBCE9A&ei=_jLjUYbqArKm0wXvtYFA&usg=AFQjCNGEMT--_lWb3rZhsE8xVdutsVtogw&sig2=ggcMj_Q9-8A4_UHOvUS_wA

 

It does say "could" implying their may be exceptions but I still wouldn't trap any domestic animal without 1st seeking proper legal advice from the BASC or a shooting solicitor.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Alsone

[Matt 160]

i also seem to remember reading somewhere that cats cease to be personal possessions once they leave your property and are essentially the property of whoever owns the land they are on at the time, like game. in effect they become feral the moment they are allowed to roam out of the garden. tis may be bollocks, but its rattling round in the back of my mind somewhere......

Totally incorrect in the UK.

 

Cats belong to their owners regardless of where they happen to be, and to add insult to injury, their owners cannot be held liable for their actions.

 

I'm not sure how sensible the OP is in openly admitting intent to kill cats on the forum... the next time a cat goes missing in the vicinity he could find himself answering some difficult questions.

 

Given the fact that this is a commercial farm; I'd suggest the OP tells his employer to contact the NFU for advice and support. The police are duty bound to investigate any crime committed, and the killing of farm stock is a crime.

 

Whatever happens, I'd urge extreme caution when thinking about action with firearms against marauding dogs and cats.

[Atim91 0]

As a poultry farmer who has cats, could you explain what the cats are doing as ours don't so much as look at chickens but do kill a lot of rats which is more often not quite useful.

[Hawkeye. 26]

Your only allowed to shoot what is specified on your firearm's licence . I asked my firearm's dept a few year's ago if they would add Dog's to my licence , their answer was NO . Under no circumstances would I be allowed to shoot a dog with a firearm. If a dog was worrying my livestock I was allowed to shoot it with a shotgun while it was in the act , not allowed to catch the dog and then shoot it .

 

But it must be remembered that this was only the firearm's dept' interpretation of whatever law , if it was a law , that existed at the time .

Edited July 15, 2013 by Hawkeye.

[kranky 507]

 

i also seem to remember reading somewhere that cats cease to be personal possessions once they leave your property and are essentially the property of whoever owns the land they are on at the time, like game. in effect they become feral the moment they are allowed to roam out of the garden. tis may be bollocks, but its rattling round in the back of my mind somewhere......

Totally incorrect in the UK.

 

Cats belong to their owners regardless of where they happen to be, and to add insult to injury, their owners cannot be held liable for their actions.

 

I'm not sure how sensible the OP is in openly admitting intent to kill cats on the forum... the next time a cat goes missing in the vicinity he could find himself answering some difficult questions.

 

Given the fact that this is a commercial farm; I'd suggest the OP tells his employer to contact the NFU for advice and support. The police are duty bound to investigate any crime committed, and the killing of farm stock is a crime.

 

Whatever happens, I'd urge extreme caution when thinking about action with firearms against marauding dogs and cats.

 

There's no protection in law for cats that are on someone else's property. If cat owners don't want their cats to be shot then they should keep them indoors. This myth that if they are wearing a collar then you are committing an act of criminal damage is nonsense. There is no legal obligation to report any vehicle strikes involving cats. If they were viewed as a persons property, in law, then a reporting system, as is in place for dogs, cattle, horses, etc, would be in place. I think you'll find that the act of allowing your cat to roam, unchecked, is wilful abandonment and your rights are diminished due to your duty of care being discharged.

[Apex 3]

Trap them - then hand them into the RSPCA and they'll destroy them for you if the owners don't come forward. If the owners do come forward you have a link to the owners that the police can act on, and proof that you tried other methods if you do end up having to shoot them. I think you can argue the cats are feral if they aren't wearing a collar.

[Matt 160]

Absolute tosh

 

Show me these 'laws' you are quoting please Kranky.

 

Here in the UK cats remain property regardless of where they are, or if they are wearing a collar.

 

The only correct thing you've stated in that post is that you don't have to stop if you run one over; unlike dogs.

 

And before you suggest it, the Abandonment of Animals Act was repealed some time ago....

 

Please, don't come on here giving such poor advice. The fact is, you are never allowed to willfully kill a cat unless you are prepared to stand up in court and explain to a magistrate what 'reasonable' measures you took to ensure it was feral.

[Matt 160]

Trap them - then hand them into the RSPCA and they'll destroy them for you if the owners don't come forward. If the owners do come forward you have a link to the owners that the police can act on, and proof that you tried other methods if you do end up having to shoot them. I think you can argue the cats are feral if they aren't wearing a collar.

 

Again, please show evidence of these 'facts' you are quoting.

 

What would be the point of involving the police in the case of a cat? Their owners cannot be held liable in law for the actions of their animals.

 

If you trap them and take them to the RSPCA or whoever, you could be liable for theft.

[Malt 379]

I don't think it's law that you have to report a car accident with a dog these days either Matt.. Didn't that requirement go out with the dog licence?

[Matt 160]

I don't think it's law that you have to report a car accident with a dog these days either Matt.. Didn't that requirement go out with the dog licence?

 

No.

 

Had that very situation here a little while ago when one of my labs got knocked over.

 

It's the Road Traffic Act that specifies what you have to report.

[Malt 379]

I had an accident with a dog a few years back, when I phoned the police to let them know they told me all I had to do was phone the council so they could remove it, it was nothing to do with them..

[Matt 160]

I had an accident with a dog a few years back, when I phoned the police to let them know they told me all I had to do was phone the council so they could remove it, it was nothing to do with them..

 

If you want to know about the law, the last person to ask is a copper

 

At a dinner do one night the question of speed limits popped up. I knew the limit on a dual carriageway was 70mph, but they wouldn't have it. Anyway, one of the idiots around the table decided it would be a good idea to ring the copshop and ask them...... Guess what? They said it was 60mph........... You couldn't make it up!

[Alsone 789]

There's no protection in law for cats that are on someone else's property. If cat owners don't want their cats to be shot then they should keep them indoors. This myth that if they are wearing a collar then you are committing an act of criminal damage is nonsense. There is no legal obligation to report any vehicle strikes involving cats. If they were viewed as a persons property, in law, then a reporting system, as is in place for dogs, cattle, horses, etc, would be in place. I think you'll find that the act of allowing your cat to roam, unchecked, is wilful abandonment and your rights are diminished due to your duty of care being discharged.

 

 

 

You should listen to Matt.

 

Just because someone else's property is on your property doesn't mean that it ceases to be their property. You are under an obligation to return it in good condition be it a football or an pet animal such as a cat.

 

If you fail to return it you commit a criminal act of theft (a dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it) and the civil tort of conversion (where you treat someone else's property as your own - which opens up the way for you to be liable in damages. Conversion does not require theft).

 

If you damage it you commit criminal damage (A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property belonging to another intending to destroy or damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be destroyed or damaged shall be guilty of an offence). The only lawful excuse here for shooting domestic animals that I'm aware of is dogs with a shotgun to prevent livestock damage and only then as a last resort.

 

Demanding a payment for the return of someone else's property constitutes blackmail.

 

I'm guessing your basing your opinion on cats on the positions of deer. But deer are different as they are treated as wild animals and thus no-ones property.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Alsone