Beretta A310 Improved Cylinder Do I Need A Improved Cylinder Choke Help Please

[charlie caller 3,654]

I quite agree,I suspect those high pheasant shooters would do better if they used an open choke and stuck to a 36gm cartridge, if only they had the courage to try it.

[Cliff Ray 185]

 

Well just how stupid do you need to be to think I was serious?

 

PS In case you didn't realise that is rhetorical.

About as stupid as the twat who turned pigeon into mincemeat

 

So you DON'T now what rhetorical means. Maybe you can it up some time.

[Alsone 789]

I never use anything other than 1/2 and 3/4 when out general shooting and I don't miss.

 

Sorry Charlie, but it's bull to suggest that you don't need anything other than open cylinder.

 

Shoot a pattern plate and you'll soon see why you need different chokes for different distances. A wide open choke will spread so wide that there are holes in the pattern that a pigeon will simply fly straight through the holes in the pattern from anything like a mid to long distance.

 

That said, for general shooting in the field 1/2 then 3/4 covers most situations. 1/2 covers most common pigeon / rabbit ranges. 3/4 gives you the 2nd shot as the range increases after a miss.

 

For wildfowling, tighter choke typically full as you're usually shooting at higher altitudes.

 

I use 3/4 and full for fox as its a large target, often at range and you want ultimate devastation to ensure a clean kill. I'd probably use double full if I had the chokes.

 

Can't think of a use for skeet in the field. Maybe some use it for grouse? Don't know as never done that type of shooting.

 

However, it is important to have the right choke for the typical ranges your shooting at. Too tight and you're prone to missing as the spread is small and if you do hit, you'll obliterate the target. Too wide and you'll leave holes that mean you can surround the target with shot without actually hitting it.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Alsone

[SportingShooter 0]

That said Alsone, particularly with Foxes and Wildfowling, using heavy cartridges with large shot through very tight constriction will do nothing other than decrease the amount of pellets in your pattern due to the amount of constriction at the muzzle.

 

Every cartridge will pattern differently in every gun with every size of constriction but one pattern I've always seen repeat itself is the above, a blown pattern.

 

I don't believe the choke/cartridge/distance/shot size debate will ever be resolved with a one fits all, it can't happen and doesn't need it. It's what works and kills for you at the end of the day.

[Alsone 789]

I don't believe the choke/cartridge/distance/shot size debate will ever be resolved with a one fits all, it can't happen and doesn't need it. It's what works and kills for you at the end of the day.

 

I agree. It depends on the load and the typical distance to the target.

 

For pigeon / rabbit I use 32gr and 1/2 + 3/4. Works well for me.

 

If there's any doubt about which choke / cartridge to use at any typical range, the best way is to pattern it. At least that way you can visualise problems and correct as necessary.

 

One thing you can't do with a shotgun is ever have the perfect choke all of the time because prey isn't predictable. Most pigeon maybe at eg 50 yards, but there's no accounting for the one that flies straight down the hedge at 10 yards. The best you can ever do is set something for your typical situation.

 

I don't believe though that there's a one size fits all solutions such as cyl, as cyl in most longer range situtations whill leave holes in the pattern.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Alsone

[air gun ant 1,666]

I use 1/2 and 3/4 for everything and if I miss it's because I didn't point the gun in the right place at the right time

[charlie caller 3,654]

I never use anything other than 1/2 and 3/4 when out general shooting and I don't miss.

 

Sorry Charlie, but it's bull to suggest that you don't need anything other than open cylinder.

 

Shoot a pattern plate and you'll soon see why you need different chokes for different distances. A wide open choke will spread so wide that there are holes in the pattern that a pigeon will simply fly straight through the holes in the pattern from anything like a mid to long distance.

 

That said, for general shooting in the field 1/2 then 3/4 covers most situations. 1/2 covers most common pigeon / rabbit ranges. 3/4 gives you the 2nd shot as the range increases after a miss.

 

For wildfowling, tighter choke typically full as you're usually shooting at higher altitudes.

 

I use 3/4 and full for fox as its a large target, often at range and you want ultimate devastation to ensure a clean kill. I'd probably use double full if I had the chokes.

 

Can't think of a use for skeet in the field. Maybe some use it for grouse? Don't know as never done that type of shooting.

 

However, it is important to have the right choke for the typical ranges your shooting at. Too tight and you're prone to missing as the spread is small and if you do hit, you'll obliterate the target. Too wide and you'll leave holes that mean you can surround the target with shot without actually hitting it.

Well all I can say is I have been shooting shotguns for the last 30 + years and I have pretty much seen it all, I will reiterate, I have killed plenty of geese, and duck at 45 yards + to know where my confidence lies,with a 32 gram quality cartridge I have consistently dropped woodies stone dead at 50 yards with imp cylinder, ok I may be a slightly better than average shot, but it is where you point the gun that counts not what metal tube you have screwed in the end, again tight chokes are a handicap, but I guess experimentation is one of the joys of shooting and finding out for yourself.

[123hw80 9]

thanks for the reply lads its all been taken in

 

thanks Jordan

[Alsone 789]

Well all I can say is I have been shooting shotguns for the last 30 + years and I have pretty much seen it all, I will reiterate, I have killed plenty of geese, and duck at 45 yards + to know where my confidence lies,with a 32 gram quality cartridge I have consistently dropped woodies stone dead at 50 yards with imp cylinder, ok I may be a slightly better than average shot, but it is where you point the gun that counts not what metal tube you have screwed in the end, again tight chokes are a handicap, but I guess experimentation is one of the joys of shooting and finding out for yourself.

 

 

FIrstly, I apologise if my use of the word "bull" was slightly aggressive. When I re-read it sounded a little harsh. Internet boards are never good for expression.

 

I still say there are right chokes for different situations although 1/2 + 3/4 covers most common situations.

 

However, if impr cyl works for you , then why not. All I would suggest is that some of your rare misses may have more to do with holes in the pattern than mistakes in your markmanship.

 

This is a good example of too wide a choke for the purpose:

 

 

The circles illustrate holes in the pattern where a clay (or bird) could be located and unharmed.

 

Taken from: http://www.shotgun.me.uk/page36.htm

 

I think the commentary on the pattern image explains it all.

 

You can see from this table that at 35 metres (relatively close in), cylinder only delivers 30-40% of the shot into a 75cm circle compared to 60% for 1/2:

 

 

At greater distance the percentage differences will be exagerated.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Alsone

[charlie caller 3,654]

That's quite ok mate I did not take offence, yes different cartridges will deliver different pattern density according to shot type/size and wad type/construction, as you say mate whatever works for you is good, I have a little 16 bore Baikal hammer gun and I shoot it pretty well and have not got a clue what chokes it has, although being Russian I suspect it is pretty tight, I think on the whole people worry far too much about choke and not on marksmanship, but for me come sept the 1st and I pull down the first mallard of the season at a good height with my imp cylinder, I will be secure in the knowledge that for me at least I have made the right choice.

Edited July 4, 2013 by charlie caller

[SportingShooter 0]

I think I may start a poll and see just how much variance there is...

[CharlieT 32]

Many of those who dismiss open chokes fail to point out that improved cylinder will throw, near enough, the % same pattern at 50 yds as 3/4 will at 60 yds.

 

Quite what the current trend to over choke barrels is beyond me.

[brucemyster 75]

horses for courses and what ever gives you confidence at the end of the day is what I say, recently got a used Remington 1100 skeet and my shooting has improved immeasurably, hitting things all over the show, is it because I'm using a more open choke or because I have more confidence with that particular gun? but then I'm not taking shots at impossible ranges. I think it's more about knowing your own limitations as much as it is the gun you use. Changing chokes left right and centre half the time is looking for an answer that just isn't there, it's your shooting ability not the chokes your using!! Mind you I'm not saying there are not different situations which call for a different choke and experienced shooters will adjust accordingly but if your not hitting jack in any given situation with whatever chokes your using, then 9 times out of 10 it ain't your gun

Edited July 6, 2013 by brucemyster

[SportingShooter 0]

Could probably summarise the entire debate in a few words.

 

The right choke and shot size for the quarry and distance involved. That and no matter how good your choice of those is, the gun still needs to be fired in the right direction regardless.

[Alsone 789]

is it because I'm using a more open choke or because I have more confidence with that particular gun?

 

Could be either!

 

Confidence is a great aim booster.

 

Having a skeet choked gun will give a wider spread and so will result in you hitting targets that you'd miss through poor aim with a tigher choke. The flip side of the debate, is too wide a pattern, as you may well be getting if shooting skeet at sporting ranges means some prey will be lost through holes in the pattern. As Charlie said, using a heavier cartridge and thus putting more shot into the string will help aleviate this, but it won't eliminate it and the best way to shoot is always with the optimum load / choke combo. That said in the field, you can't always have the optimum so have to go for the typical. Also theres a lot to be said for confidence even in the wrong selection because as Sporting says, whatever the choke, the gun has to be pointing in the right direction!