Bosun11 537 Posted June 21, 2013 Report Share Posted June 21, 2013 IMO, the only thing that has 100% worked on knocked toe is rest... Any other treatments i've both seen an used have never been proven, other than the rest the dog was given at that time along with the 'meds', including vet treatment! To me, the bottom line in' digits gone wrong' is patience.... Sadly, few have such treatments readily available...!! Edited to add... Just how short should you crop a dogs nail to...? Because IMO anyone who gets their mutt out enough will/should have short enough nails to see 'em through a few weeks lead only walks, without putting pressure on that bad toe, so for all of you who would cut.... And lets not get into what the feck most would cut with..!!!( ) How short you gonna cut that fecker, given that the poor mutt is in enough pain, never mind the blood all over the kennel.... Sorry boys but its rest, kennel bound and building up on leash walks, however long it takes.... Only if the poor fecker has been walking in stilettos (nails clattering along the floor!) its it worth a 'trim'. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Giro 2,648 Posted June 22, 2013 Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 I have two pals that had different opinions about clipping the nail back.. One just took the tip off, that was enough to cause it to bleed out and it would congeal not that long after.. (Still shit load of blood) The other lad took the nail off at the base, that took ages to stop bleeding and then ages for the nail to grow back.. I swear by anti-inflammatory drugs it rapidly reduces swelling.. With out the toes heal with time but the toe can also calcifies. I keep the clippers in the car along with the Rimadly and administer straight way.. I have seen toes come right down by the morning with using this method. Come's in handy having a small first aid box for the dogs in the van.. I always have a bandage in there now too.. Dog had a ripped ear one night. Jesus the van looked like a murder sence, dog kept shaking its head Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LaraCroft 863 Posted June 22, 2013 Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 It's a bone/ligament injury - no amount of "letting blood out from cutting the nail" is going to make any difference - the swelling isn't blood, it's fluid in the tissue. Can you imagine someone cutting a nail through the quick, which is very painful, on purpose, when the toe in question already has a bone/ligament injury ? All it does is provide a route of entry to bacteria, risking infection. There is a reason "blood letting" isn't used anymore. The only time clipping the nail will help is if it is the nail that is broken/dislocated. When the swelling is further back along the joints of the toe, and the nail is fine, then clipping it will just cause pain. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Millet 4,497 Posted June 22, 2013 Report Share Posted June 22, 2013 I 100% agree with the above post.. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Giro 2,648 Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 It's a bone/ligament injury - no amount of "letting blood out from cutting the nail" is going to make any difference - the swelling isn't blood, it's fluid in the tissue. Can you imagine someone cutting a nail through the quick, which is very painful, on purpose, when the toe in question already has a bone/ligament injury ? All it does is provide a route of entry to bacteria, risking infection. There is a reason "blood letting" isn't used anymore. The only time clipping the nail will help is if it is the nail that is broken/dislocated. When the swelling is further back along the joints of the toe, and the nail is fine, then clipping it will just cause pain. What I class a Knocked toe is not a ligament or bone injury... Its a bad bruise what we may class a "jar"... Its localised trauma that has caused bruising and inflammation. Fractures and dislocations are different kettle of fish.. Any wound that gets infected has not been treated properly.. Common sense and basic hygiene go a long way... Each to there own but while you are lead walking your dog 4 weeks later, mine is back in the fields filling the game bag Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LaraCroft 863 Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 It's a bone/ligament injury - no amount of "letting blood out from cutting the nail" is going to make any difference - the swelling isn't blood, it's fluid in the tissue. Can you imagine someone cutting a nail through the quick, which is very painful, on purpose, when the toe in question already has a bone/ligament injury ? All it does is provide a route of entry to bacteria, risking infection. There is a reason "blood letting" isn't used anymore. The only time clipping the nail will help is if it is the nail that is broken/dislocated. When the swelling is further back along the joints of the toe, and the nail is fine, then clipping it will just cause pain. What I class a Knocked toe is not a ligament or bone injury... Its a bad bruise what we may class a "jar"... Its localised trauma that has caused bruising and inflammation. Fractures and dislocations are different kettle of fish.. Any wound that gets infected has not been treated properly.. Common sense and basic hygiene go a long way... Each to there own but while you are lead walking your dog 4 weeks later, mine is back in the fields filling the game bag Have a look at the Mike Gilliard link that Millet posted - it gives loads of info about bone, ligament and tendon injuries in dog feet, and why some remedies work, and some don't. It explains that a "knocked up" toe is a dislocation, or a damage to the ligaments between the joints. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Millet 4,497 Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 A knocked up toe can be a number of thing's..not just a bruised jarred joint Giro..it can be dislocated/broken/ tendon damage and probably load's more..you can only guess it is bruised and the only real way to find the exact problem is from a bone man or a xray.. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Millet 4,497 Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 Giro i am not nit picking or trying to cause bother in any way but that bitch of your's that had a toe removed..did you cut the nail right back on that toe.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Giro 2,648 Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) It's a bone/ligament injury - no amount of "letting blood out from cutting the nail" is going to make any difference - the swelling isn't blood, it's fluid in the tissue. Can you imagine someone cutting a nail through the quick, which is very painful, on purpose, when the toe in question already has a bone/ligament injury ? All it does is provide a route of entry to bacteria, risking infection. There is a reason "blood letting" isn't used anymore. The only time clipping the nail will help is if it is the nail that is broken/dislocated. When the swelling is further back along the joints of the toe, and the nail is fine, then clipping it will just cause pain. What I class a Knocked toe is not a ligament or bone injury... Its a bad bruise what we may class a "jar"... Its localised trauma that has caused bruising and inflammation. Fractures and dislocations are different kettle of fish.. Any wound that gets infected has not been treated properly.. Common sense and basic hygiene go a long way... Each to there own but while you are lead walking your dog 4 weeks later, mine is back in the fields filling the game bag Have a look at the Mike Gilliard link that Millet posted - it gives loads of info about bone, ligament and tendon injuries in dog feet, and why some remedies work, and some don't. It explains that a "knocked up" toe is a dislocation, or a damage to the ligaments between the joints. In other words localised trauma unspecified without x-ray Maybe its been Jarred and it is what I class "knocked up", because its been knocked.. That's one web page, have you got any evidenced based research on toe injuries ?? A knocked up toe can be a number of thing's..not just a bruised jarred joint Giro..it can be dislocated/broken/ tendon damage and probably load's more..you can only guess it is bruised and the only real way to find the exact problem is from a bone man or a xray.. When a toes broken it can be as clear as crystal .. Dislocated maybe not unless its yet to balloon up and its popping in & out.. Like you say specialist advice is needed for prognosis.. Giro i am not nit picking or trying to cause bother in any way but that bitch of your's that had a toe removed..did you cut the nail right back on that toe.. The Dog sustained multiple foot injuries one two front digits.. I never took the nail back on any occasion.. I had the toe off after being broken 3 times and then the adjacent toe went two times.. The first break was disgusting it was clearly broken and was a 90 degree angle. following each break the dog was given first class treatment and recuperation.. The joint was badly smashed.. I wish I had went for a pin rather than removal but hind sight all that... That was one dog with bad feet.. My old bitch and her sister have sustained many a knocked toe and with the nail coming off and meds its been back to graft.. Its been clear its not been a break or dislocation or anything more sinister otherwise they would take longer to heal. It was your pal Colin that tipped my pal of with the nail clipping.. Its worked for my friend and me since we give it ago. Again it may well be the decent medication and rest as previously stated I have ever done it as stand alone treatment. My dogs well being is important to me and I do what I thinks the best for them I respect others views and am not giving out any advice.. I only know what has worked for me on several occasions and I will continue to do what I believe is best for my dogs and me. Edited for typo Edited June 23, 2013 by Giro Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LaraCroft 863 Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 There are many tests that can be done to show a bone injury, as different from ligament damage and just bruising - none of which involve x-rays. The way the bones sit, the way they move etc will show ( given the knowledge to look, nothing to do with deformity or popping in and out.. ) whether there is damage to ligaments ( sorted with rest ) or bone ( may need more vet input ) or whether it is just bruising and will need rest. Bruising doesn't respond that well to anti-inflammatory drugs like rimadyl, although it can help with pain. If ligaments are damaged, and the dog is brought back into to work too quickly, before the tissue has had chance to heal and harden up, then repeat injuries are common. There is a reason that some people end up dealing with many toe injuries their dogs, and it is usually unconditioned dogs run on unsuitable ground. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Giro 2,648 Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) What tests ?? This test things interesting I can tell by looking what's right and what's not .. "not deformity" If it don't look right it generally isn't ... Its not rocket science its a swollen paw.. "The way they move" manual manipulation which would be popping a dislocated toe.. Rimadyl is anti inflammatory and it dose exactly that. If your trying to imply my dogs are unconditioned your way of the mark... Edited spelling Edited June 23, 2013 by Giro Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LaraCroft 863 Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 The tests are for normal movement, normal responses and reflexes - that show if the ligaments are intact or not, depending on how the various joints move. All I am saying is that swelling means there is an injury, but there needs to be more tests/investigations before you can say what the injury is, and therefore the treatment. If it is bruising, rest will be fine, and work carried on as normal. Ligaments take a lot longer to heal because of their poor blood supply, and if worked again too soon are weak and liable to injure again. I have not mentioned your dogs at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Giro 2,648 Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 so visual and physical examination.. Having a look and a fiddle out Not a "Test" I said from the start swelling would suggest injury.. Undiagnosed trauma Any moron would check there dogs paw to discover what was going on.. It could be anything from a thorn to a break.. Like I said a few posts back common sense is needed not a Phd in veterinary sciences. I said Imply .... End of the day I am not seeking approval or suggesting anyone follows my lead.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LaraCroft 863 Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 so visual and physical examination.. Having a look and a fiddle out Not a "Test" I said from the start swelling would suggest injury.. Undiagnosed trauma Any moron would check there dogs paw to discover what was going on.. It could be anything from a thorn to a break.. Like I said a few posts back common sense is needed not a Phd in veterinary sciences. I said Imply .... End of the day I am not seeking approval or suggesting anyone follows my lead.. If you can't understand the basic physiology behind testing for ligament damage, then crack on with your " letting blood out of the nail for pressure release" I am not approving anything that I don't feel is sound advice, or following anyones lead when I think it is rubbish - its a forum, it is discussion - that is all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Giro 2,648 Posted June 23, 2013 Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 My knowledge of anatomy and physiology is far from basic.. I have had my fair share of injuries with the dogs.. I know what dose work and I will stick to it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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