Advice for a Swedish earthdog enthusiast

[buffalofred 2]

Hi all!

I’m Swedish hunter who is quite new to working terriers and digging, this is just my second season. I currently have a Border along with me to hunt foxes and badgers here in Sweden. As I really enjoy this form of hunting I’m planning to buy additional one or two Border Terriers. Does anybody on this forum have any advice for me regarding where to buy a Border with good working lines in the UK?

We do have some working Borders here in Sweden but no one pay any interest in introducing “new†working lines from the UK, i.e. most of them are as you all know show dogs and/or pets. Thanks in advance!

 

Regards,

 

Fredrik

[stando 177]

Hello,

There is a terrierman with the "golden valley hunt" that keep's working Border's,he might be worth a try if someone on here knoe's him?

[m.r1 7]

Take no notice of the previous reply, theres working and theres working. There are very few real working Borders, I know of 2 pure Border bitches, 1 is retired and the other still being worked (proper work) and has at least 4 seasons behind her. Her sire was a working Border (both KC) Both bitches belong to 2 different people, 1 in Wales and 1 up North, both people are friends of each other and have bred amongst them selves for many years and are quite knowledgable in the Border world. Many people will quote Levi Oaks in their pedigree and that there dogs work well, Levi, now deceased, hasnt had a working Border for a long long time, his words to me over 8 yeasrs ago. There have been and will continue to be the odd worker coming through the ranks, the sad thing is they are a nice terrier but there blood has been ruined and the lack of true work has been their demise. Or was it? I am a great beliver human nature is to perfect, always aim high and go beyond expectations (should do) and this is where I believe Borders, Sealyhams and Russells have been left behind by the true working terrier enthusiasts. I dont say this to be controversal, there are still some decent russels but the vast majority are show dogs and worked very little.

 

Getting away from your original point here, no doubt people will jump in on the conversation, good, that is what this is all about, but all decent terrier lads know, there is now only 1 breed of terreir that is still used for true earth work, that is the Fell Type/Patterdale (not the Lakeland) Yes you wiill get the odd russell/Border that will do a bit of work, but they very really produce workers, the % in a litter of making the grade are very poor. I dont say this to knock them, I have admired Borders for their looks for years, I have owned several, all useless, 2 did some light terrier work and wre never really tested. I have at present three quarter cross dog, bred by 1 of the people mentioned above, he looks very much like a Border but is a lot more stronger, weighs about 27lb fit and his head is the same size of most Borders chest! He was a very hard dog but after plenty of work has finaly learned to bay. I have not bred off him and the odds are I will not as I have my own breed of fell types and to add blood to my own may, I repeat may, be the ruination of my own terriers working qualities.

 

It will be rare for any one to answer you and give their contact details over the site, I suggest you write in to EDRD with your enquiry, my advice when you are offered the service of a good stud or pup, ask the details and then via the EDRD ask for Frank Spencers comments, Frank is knowledgable, tells the truth even if it up sets any one. You may well have to rethink your chosen breed of terrier, you know what you want it for, so the choice is yours, but be careful, there are many so called top names breeding the arse out of their terriers and mass producing pups with all the verbal shit of the generations of workers and they all go back to Ken Gould! By the way Ken Gould has not owned a working terrier for over 20 years or more, a lot of damage can be done to working blood lines in 20 years.

 

Good luck

[buffalofred 2]

Thanks for your answer and comments on working and BTs in the UK!

I'm aware of the problem as we do have the same here in Sweden, probably 90% of the BTs are plain pets, 8% are used for gaming and 2% are used for terrier work. However I'm not really sure what you guys from the UK mean by proper work? Besides I’m not even sure if we use our terriers in the exact same way as you do? Those Swedes who cares about the breeds origin test their terriers on an artificial earth trial and those who use their terriers for work normally get the dogs proven on an earth trial during a actual hunt as well. In Sweden many of the hunters with working terriers part the dogs based on what type of prey it suits for, i.e. fox or badger. For fox many prefers a rather hard and movable dog who will force the fox to bolt. For badgers most prefer a determined dog who will not leave the badger when it’s found beneath ground and these terriers can’t be too hard if you have an interest in keeping them alive through the season. So, there are very few hunters who’ll consider digging for their terrier if it’s supposed to be a terrier only used for fox baiting, but if it’s a terrier that has the right temperament to settle badgers with a constant bark and authority (that is without any brainless attacks) we will dig for it every time it’s possible. In order to evaluate which type of worker you have along with you we use the artificial earth shown on the link above. This is a bit rationalized but, a dog that will go into the artificial earth, using just 1 tunnel and then stays in front of the badger the whole time without trying to find another tunnel to attack is probably effective to use on badgers. Most terriers naturally tend to be more movable; they normally use all the tunnels to attack the badger and do it with more force and velocity. Only a terrier that has been tested to have proper working abilities in the artificial earth can move on to the “real†earth trial. If the dog has been proved to be a fine worker for badgers in the artificial earth it can only be tested on badgers on the “real†earth trial and vice verse. Enough about that, perhaps it’s curiosa to somebody.

I’m sure most of you know almost everything about working terriers but in order to reduce risk for misunderstandings I just wanted to explain how most of us in Sweden use a working terrier.

BTW, I like the Border for its temperament, most of them are very peaceful when not working, nice to people and other dogs, but when they sense a badger or fox beneath ground they can change to be an effective worker as well. I know there’s a lot that wouldn’t go to ground and have lost its working abilities but I personally have nothing against to work hard en route for keeping the Border as a worker. Thanks again for your time and for answering my questions!

Edited August 16, 2007 by buffalofred

[stando 177]

The man with the borders i was talking about works his dog's , his dog's are well known in that area so ask about!!!!

[harddigging 42]

weres my passport im going to sweden

[Guest pip]

MR1s comments i can t fault so far the only thing i have to add on borders are that they seem to make a good cross into patt/fell lines but it takes a good border and as has already been stated they are like hens teeth,unfortunately.

[buffalofred 2]

weres my passport im going to sweden

 

Haha, bring some fine Whiskey and we'll be glad to have you here

Edited August 16, 2007 by buffalofred

[buffalofred 2]

Ok, thanks Stando! Hope somebody will turn up with an adress to him then.

[m.r1 7]

MR1s comments i can t fault so far the only thing i have to add on borders are that they seem to make a good cross into patt/fell lines but it takes a good border and as has already been stated they are like hens teeth,unfortunately.

 

Well said, the huge decision is, do you want to take the chance adding Border to your fell blood, some borders do have cracking physiques and muscle etc, but I would rather breed fell to fell type than take the risk, learned from experience!

[m.r1 7]

The man with the borders i was talking about works his dog's , his dog's are well known in that area so ask about!!!!

 

 

Hello

 

will do

[m.r1 7]

MR1s comments i can t fault so far the only thing i have to add on borders are that they seem to make a good cross into patt/fell lines but it takes a good border and as has already been stated they are like hens teeth,unfortunately.

 

Well said, the huge decision is, do you want to take the chance adding Border to your fell blood, some borders do have cracking physiques and muscle etc, but I would rather breed fell to fell type than take the risk, learned from experience!

[m.r1 7]

The man with the borders i was talking about works his dog's , his dog's are well known in that area so ask about!!!!

 

 

Hello

 

will do

 

Hello the name is Paul, he has been about for 2 yers, NOT THE TERRIERMAN! so the Hunt name should not be used, could mislead people in thinking the Borders are worked on the Hunt and again if sold, that famous saying Hunt terriers, See, only takes a phone call, took me 2 minutes, Frank Spencer knows every one! So who is Paul? where did he come from? I am informed he does not work his terriers on the hunt, so where did the working info come from?

 

I lok forward to your, or Pauls response

 

Getting interesting this!

 

Love it!

 

 

 

 

Come on the working Border terrier brigade, no replies! You must have all been out digging 10 foot holes, 4 hr duration digs, single handed, sorry, I forgot, its still the show season!

 

Tally ho!

 

If I can fathom out how to send pictures I will send a photo of a working Border that belongs to Frank Spencer, Frank has never shown his Borders since he lost at a Crufts qualifier (think I am messing!) works single handed, no fox bolter! Frank had tried to explain to the judges that 16 inches and 25lb or more is perfect for a working terrier, Frank if you are watching, your good, but you cannot know every thing

[Greengrass 201]

m.r.1

i take it you don't rate lakelands as workers anymore ? can you give me a run down on the reasons for this, and are you meaning the breed in general or do you consider there are some working strains of lakeland around

cheers

Greengrass

[matulkoh 66]

Hi all!

I’m Swedish hunter who is quite new to working terriers and digging, this is just my second season. I currently have a Border along with me to hunt foxes and badgers here in Sweden. As I really enjoy this form of hunting I’m planning to buy additional one or two Border Terriers. Does anybody on this forum have any advice for me regarding where to buy a Border with good working lines in the UK?

We do have some working Borders here in Sweden but no one pay any interest in introducing “new†working lines from the UK, i.e. most of them are as you all know show dogs and/or pets. Thanks in advance!

 

Regards,

 

Fredrik

 

thera some great working strains in slovakia and czech republick, if y re interested in, write me an email on matulkoh@yahoo.co.uk