New Season In France

[Apache... 2,588]

Cheers Blaise, interesting stuff.

[Blaise 2,324]

A day out with some friends who are hunting the traditionnal way with wire fox terrier.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Blaise

[leethedog 3,071]

You French men a always laying around even when hunting lol atb merry Christmas

[Lew 111]

Must do your heads in taking them onezee's off when you need a nature shit.

[Lenmcharristar 9,802]

 

A day out with some friends who are hunting the traditionnal way with wire fox terrier.

1.jpg

05.jpg

2.jpg

8.jpg

brilliant blaise, good to see breeds that's been ruined and on the dole here in the uk doing a bit abroad. It would be a good place to get the start of working lines to put back into uk stock.

[eastcoast 4,137]

 

 

A day out with some friends who are hunting the traditionnal way with wire fox terrier.

1.jpg

05.jpg

2.jpg

8.jpg

brilliant blaise, good to see breeds that's been ruined and on the dole here in the uk doing a bit abroad. It would be a good place to get the start of working lines to put back into uk stock.

 

I also applaud the men in France working their Fox Terriers but would add that dogs of that physical type were never worked in the UK or Ireland. Of course dogs called Fox Terriers were worked at one time but they were not of the type seen in the photographs on this thread. This type is a product of the show ring and was developed by KC breeders long after dogs being called Fox Terriers were to be found in the hunting field. I find it hard to believe that hunters in France have stayed loyal to the breed for over a century and for some reason developed their working dogs to keep in line with what the judges were looking for and allowed exaggerated show points in their stock. A more likely explanation is that French hunters acquired terriers, modern Fox Terriers, relatively recently of a TYPE that had never been used as a working terrier in the UK or Ireland, possibly in the 1950s or 60s ? And then they took them into the hunting field and found them still capable of doing a job of work despite being a bit removed in physical type from the original Fox Terrier of England.

 

This is not intended as a criticism of the French working terrier scene. I have been lucky enough to own terriers in the past that to my mind's eye were a more faithful example of a Fox Terrier. I own one now. Is he better badger digging dog than French Fox Terriers ? I have no idea because he's never seen one and hopefully never will because I live in England. Vive la France !

[Blaise 2,324]

 

 

 

A day out with some friends who are hunting the traditionnal way with wire fox terrier.

1.jpg

05.jpg

2.jpg

8.jpg

brilliant blaise, good to see breeds that's been ruined and on the dole here in the uk doing a bit abroad. It would be a good place to get the start of working lines to put back into uk stock.

 

I also applaud the men in France working their Fox Terriers but would add that dogs of that physical type were never worked in the UK or Ireland. Of course dogs called Fox Terriers were worked at one time but they were not of the type seen in the photographs on this thread. This type is a product of the show ring and was developed by KC breeders long after dogs being called Fox Terriers were to be found in the hunting field. I find it hard to believe that hunters in France have stayed loyal to the breed for over a century and for some reason developed their working dogs to keep in line with what the judges were looking for and allowed exaggerated show points in their stock. A more likely explanation is that French hunters acquired terriers, modern Fox Terriers, relatively recently of a TYPE that had never been used as a working terrier in the UK or Ireland, possibly in the 1950s or 60s ? And then they took them into the hunting field and found them still capable of doing a job of work despite being a bit removed in physical type from the original Fox Terrier of England.

 

This is not intended as a criticism of the French working terrier scene. I have been lucky enough to own terriers in the past that to my mind's eye were a more faithful example of a Fox Terrier. I own one now. Is he better badger digging dog than French Fox Terriers ? I have no idea because he's never seen one and hopefully never will because I live in England. Vive la France !

 

 

I'm not an expert concerning Fox terrier in France but we can be certain about few facts.

- If the fox terriers come from UK, most of the french lines have been imported a very long time ago (middle of XIX century).

- distinction between wire fox terrier and smooth fox terrier is later.

- during a long time, wire and smooth were crossed in working lines.

- Wire fox terrier is widespread in France, more than the smooth type.

- The smooth type is known as the "english" fox terrier (fox terrier anglais).

So,I don't think that french wire fox terrier come from modern terrier show. They may have been breed in this way because working terrier and terrier show are linked here in France.

[jiggy 3,209]

 

 

 

 

 

A day out with some friends who are hunting the traditionnal way with wire fox terrier.

1.jpg

05.jpg

2.jpg

8.jpg

brilliant blaise, good to see breeds that's been ruined and on the dole here in the uk doing a bit abroad. It would be a good place to get the start of working lines to put back into uk stock.

I also applaud the men in France working their Fox Terriers but would add that dogs of that physical type were never worked in the UK or Ireland. Of course dogs called Fox Terriers were worked at one time but they were not of the type seen in the photographs on this thread. This type is a product of the show ring and was developed by KC breeders long after dogs being called Fox Terriers were to be found in the hunting field. I find it hard to believe that hunters in France have stayed loyal to the breed for over a century and for some reason developed their working dogs to keep in line with what the judges were looking for and allowed exaggerated show points in their stock. A more likely explanation is that French hunters acquired terriers, modern Fox Terriers, relatively recently of a TYPE that had never been used as a working terrier in the UK or Ireland, possibly in the 1950s or 60s ? And then they took them into the hunting field and found them still capable of doing a job of work despite being a bit removed in physical type from the original Fox Terrier of England.

 

This is not intended as a criticism of the French working terrier scene. I have been lucky enough to own terriers in the past that to my mind's eye were a more faithful example of a Fox Terrier. I own one now. Is he better badger digging dog than French Fox Terriers ? I have no idea because he's never seen one and hopefully never will because I live in England. Vive la France !

having spoke to terriermen at the French game fair last year the the setup is different than uk in that all the different show groups, hound groups , terrier groups and pretty much all groups operate under the umbrella of the kennel club who are the leading power over everything but at the same time embrace all the different group activities. It wouldn't be unusual for a kennel club member to be also a working dog man and have a handsome terrier as a grafter, where as in the uk these groups would be miles apart.

[eastcoast 4,137]

 

 

 

 

A day out with some friends who are hunting the traditionnal way with wire fox terrier.

1.jpg

05.jpg

2.jpg

8.jpg

brilliant blaise, good to see breeds that's been ruined and on the dole here in the uk doing a bit abroad. It would be a good place to get the start of working lines to put back into uk stock.

 

I also applaud the men in France working their Fox Terriers but would add that dogs of that physical type were never worked in the UK or Ireland. Of course dogs called Fox Terriers were worked at one time but they were not of the type seen in the photographs on this thread. This type is a product of the show ring and was developed by KC breeders long after dogs being called Fox Terriers were to be found in the hunting field. I find it hard to believe that hunters in France have stayed loyal to the breed for over a century and for some reason developed their working dogs to keep in line with what the judges were looking for and allowed exaggerated show points in their stock. A more likely explanation is that French hunters acquired terriers, modern Fox Terriers, relatively recently of a TYPE that had never been used as a working terrier in the UK or Ireland, possibly in the 1950s or 60s ? And then they took them into the hunting field and found them still capable of doing a job of work despite being a bit removed in physical type from the original Fox Terrier of England.

 

This is not intended as a criticism of the French working terrier scene. I have been lucky enough to own terriers in the past that to my mind's eye were a more faithful example of a Fox Terrier. I own one now. Is he better badger digging dog than French Fox Terriers ? I have no idea because he's never seen one and hopefully never will because I live in England. Vive la France !

 

 

I'm not an expert concerning Fox terrier in France but we can be certain about few facts.

- If the fox terriers come from UK, most of the french lines have been imported a very long time ago (middle of XIX century).

- distinction between wire fox terrier and smooth fox terrier is later.

- during a long time, wire and smooth were crossed in working lines.

- Wire fox terrier is widespread in France, more than the smooth type.

- The smooth type is known as the "english" fox terrier (fox terrier anglais).

So,I don't think that french wire fox terrier come from modern terrier show. They may have been breed in this way because working terrier and terrier show are linked here in France.

 

Thank you for reading and taking the time to respond to my post. I do enjoy this thread and have always been impressed not only by the terrier work that you carry out in France but also how you always manage to remain a gentleman in your response to daft questions or criticism of your ways. However, I stand by my opinion that those Fox Terriers are a modern type from show bred animals. They exist in many places in Europe, Czech Republic in particular, and are all post WW2 in origin.

[Lenmcharristar 9,802]

 

 

 

 

 

A day out with some friends who are hunting the traditionnal way with wire fox terrier.

1.jpg

05.jpg

2.jpg

8.jpg

brilliant blaise, good to see breeds that's been ruined and on the dole here in the uk doing a bit abroad. It would be a good place to get the start of working lines to put back into uk stock.

I also applaud the men in France working their Fox Terriers but would add that dogs of that physical type were never worked in the UK or Ireland. Of course dogs called Fox Terriers were worked at one time but they were not of the type seen in the photographs on this thread. This type is a product of the show ring and was developed by KC breeders long after dogs being called Fox Terriers were to be found in the hunting field. I find it hard to believe that hunters in France have stayed loyal to the breed for over a century and for some reason developed their working dogs to keep in line with what the judges were looking for and allowed exaggerated show points in their stock. A more likely explanation is that French hunters acquired terriers, modern Fox Terriers, relatively recently of a TYPE that had never been used as a working terrier in the UK or Ireland, possibly in the 1950s or 60s ? And then they took them into the hunting field and found them still capable of doing a job of work despite being a bit removed in physical type from the original Fox Terrier of England.

 

This is not intended as a criticism of the French working terrier scene. I have been lucky enough to own terriers in the past that to my mind's eye were a more faithful example of a Fox Terrier. I own one now. Is he better badger digging dog than French Fox Terriers ? I have no idea because he's never seen one and hopefully never will because I live in England. Vive la France !

I'm not an expert concerning Fox terrier in France but we can be certain about few facts.

- If the fox terriers come from UK, most of the french lines have been imported a very long time ago (middle of XIX century).

- distinction between wire fox terrier and smooth fox terrier is later.

- during a long time, wire and smooth were crossed in working lines.

- Wire fox terrier is widespread in France, more than the smooth type.

- The smooth type is known as the "english" fox terrier (fox terrier anglais).

 

So,I don't think that french wire fox terrier come from modern terrier show. They may have been breed in this way because working terrier and terrier show are linked here in France.

Thank you for reading and taking the time to respond to my post. I do enjoy this thread and have always been impressed not only by the terrier work that you carry out in France but also how you always manage to remain a gentleman in your response to daft questions or criticism of your ways. However, I stand by my opinion that those Fox Terriers are a modern type from show bred animals. They exist in many places in Europe, Czech Republic in particular, and are all post WW2 in origin.

look at Mohamed Ali, he was in his words a pretty good looking champion, then when he seen Mike Tyson he said he's too ugly to be a champion, but both men beautiful and ugly will beat the tripe out of all of us on here. So what has looks got to do with doing a job underground? If they are willing to work then I'd class them as a working terrier Edited December 27, 2016 by Lenmcharristar

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

Blaise ,I respect what you do and wish our country was more like that hunting wise .I've followed the thread from the start and enjoyed it and I can see how passionate you are about things .Just one question ......If its badgers you hunt ,target then from what I remember from years back in this country is that every sette will have a stop end ,bedding area as this is the nature of the animal from memory .You state you have a certain amount of failed hunts with dogs being lead a dance then showing above ground .Can I ask how many times you would allow this to happen before coming to the conclusion its the dog and not the earth .You state you generally go back with another terrier and have it at a later date .Just curious and no offence meant .The laid back style may be the reason to put up with it I guess but wanted your view please .

[Blaise 2,324]

 

 

 

 

 

A day out with some friends who are hunting the traditionnal way with wire fox terrier.

1.jpg

05.jpg

2.jpg

8.jpg

brilliant blaise, good to see breeds that's been ruined and on the dole here in the uk doing a bit abroad. It would be a good place to get the start of working lines to put back into uk stock.

 

I also applaud the men in France working their Fox Terriers but would add that dogs of that physical type were never worked in the UK or Ireland. Of course dogs called Fox Terriers were worked at one time but they were not of the type seen in the photographs on this thread. This type is a product of the show ring and was developed by KC breeders long after dogs being called Fox Terriers were to be found in the hunting field. I find it hard to believe that hunters in France have stayed loyal to the breed for over a century and for some reason developed their working dogs to keep in line with what the judges were looking for and allowed exaggerated show points in their stock. A more likely explanation is that French hunters acquired terriers, modern Fox Terriers, relatively recently of a TYPE that had never been used as a working terrier in the UK or Ireland, possibly in the 1950s or 60s ? And then they took them into the hunting field and found them still capable of doing a job of work despite being a bit removed in physical type from the original Fox Terrier of England.

 

This is not intended as a criticism of the French working terrier scene. I have been lucky enough to own terriers in the past that to my mind's eye were a more faithful example of a Fox Terrier. I own one now. Is he better badger digging dog than French Fox Terriers ? I have no idea because he's never seen one and hopefully never will because I live in England. Vive la France !

 

 

I'm not an expert concerning Fox terrier in France but we can be certain about few facts.

- If the fox terriers come from UK, most of the french lines have been imported a very long time ago (middle of XIX century).

- distinction between wire fox terrier and smooth fox terrier is later.

- during a long time, wire and smooth were crossed in working lines.

- Wire fox terrier is widespread in France, more than the smooth type.

- The smooth type is known as the "english" fox terrier (fox terrier anglais).

So,I don't think that french wire fox terrier come from modern terrier show. They may have been breed in this way because working terrier and terrier show are linked here in France.

 

Thank you for reading and taking the time to respond to my post. I do enjoy this thread and have always been impressed not only by the terrier work that you carry out in France but also how you always manage to remain a gentleman in your response to daft questions or criticism of your ways. However, I stand by my opinion that those Fox Terriers are a modern type from show bred animals. They exist in many places in Europe, Czech Republic in particular, and are all post WW2 in origin.

 

 

I've been told thatthe two types are older than WW2, the first standard could be wrote in 1876 for the two types (smooth and wire). The french club is founded in 1908. Before WW2, wire fox terrier was spread in the world (USA, belgium, France...).

 

 

In 1899, USA

 

In 1929, first Tintin with is little dog Milou...

 

Eastcoast, I will try to find some historical items with all my friends who hunt and breed fox terrier for a long time.

[Blaise 2,324]

Blaise ,I respect what you do and wish our country was more like that hunting wise .I've followed the thread from the start and enjoyed it and I can see how passionate you are about things .Just one question ......If its badgers you hunt ,target then from what I remember from years back in this country is that every sette will have a stop end ,bedding area as this is the nature of the animal from memory .You state you have a certain amount of failed hunts with dogs being lead a dance then showing above ground .Can I ask how many times you would allow this to happen before coming to the conclusion its the dog and not the earth .You state you generally go back with another terrier and have it at a later date .Just curious and no offence meant .The laid back style may be the reason to put up with it I guess but wanted your view please .

 

If a dog go out fast to go back down earth immediately, no matter.

But if a dog go out without a strong wish to hunt, dog's at leash.

How can I say the problem come from the dog or from the earth ? It depends of work.

This season, we have 92 attacks (92 time a dog had worked), we catched 74 badgers. Be careful, we had more fails than 18 (92-74) because sometimes we can catch more than one during the hunt of a dog.

[eastcoast 4,137]

 

 

 

 

 

 

A day out with some friends who are hunting the traditionnal way with wire fox terrier.

1.jpg

05.jpg

2.jpg

8.jpg

brilliant blaise, good to see breeds that's been ruined and on the dole here in the uk doing a bit abroad. It would be a good place to get the start of working lines to put back into uk stock.

 

I also applaud the men in France working their Fox Terriers but would add that dogs of that physical type were never worked in the UK or Ireland. Of course dogs called Fox Terriers were worked at one time but they were not of the type seen in the photographs on this thread. This type is a product of the show ring and was developed by KC breeders long after dogs being called Fox Terriers were to be found in the hunting field. I find it hard to believe that hunters in France have stayed loyal to the breed for over a century and for some reason developed their working dogs to keep in line with what the judges were looking for and allowed exaggerated show points in their stock. A more likely explanation is that French hunters acquired terriers, modern Fox Terriers, relatively recently of a TYPE that had never been used as a working terrier in the UK or Ireland, possibly in the 1950s or 60s ? And then they took them into the hunting field and found them still capable of doing a job of work despite being a bit removed in physical type from the original Fox Terrier of England.

 

This is not intended as a criticism of the French working terrier scene. I have been lucky enough to own terriers in the past that to my mind's eye were a more faithful example of a Fox Terrier. I own one now. Is he better badger digging dog than French Fox Terriers ? I have no idea because he's never seen one and hopefully never will because I live in England. Vive la France !

 

 

I'm not an expert concerning Fox terrier in France but we can be certain about few facts.

- If the fox terriers come from UK, most of the french lines have been imported a very long time ago (middle of XIX century).

- distinction between wire fox terrier and smooth fox terrier is later.

- during a long time, wire and smooth were crossed in working lines.

- Wire fox terrier is widespread in France, more than the smooth type.

- The smooth type is known as the "english" fox terrier (fox terrier anglais).

So,I don't think that french wire fox terrier come from modern terrier show. They may have been breed in this way because working terrier and terrier show are linked here in France.

 

Thank you for reading and taking the time to respond to my post. I do enjoy this thread and have always been impressed not only by the terrier work that you carry out in France but also how you always manage to remain a gentleman in your response to daft questions or criticism of your ways. However, I stand by my opinion that those Fox Terriers are a modern type from show bred animals. They exist in many places in Europe, Czech Republic in particular, and are all post WW2 in origin.

 

 

I've been told thatthe two types are older than WW2, the first standard could be wrote in 1876 for the two types (smooth and wire). The french club is founded in 1908. Before WW2, wire fox terrier was spread in the world (USA, belgium, France...).

 

Fox PG 2.jpg

 

In 1899, USA

fox PD.jpg

 

In 1929, first Tintin with is little dog Milou...

Fox PD 2.jpg

 

Eastcoast, I will try to find some historical items with all my friends who hunt and breed fox terrier for a long time.

 

The terriers in the first two photographs I would regard as the original Fox Terrier type and are still used as working dogs here to this day. But they haven't been referred to as a Fox Terrier for many years, Jack Russell or Russell type or Parson Russell. The dog in the third photo, that I know as Snowy, I would regard as an intermediate sort . Forty or so years after KC recognition and the changes were being made in physical type to the breed.

 

I have commented only because I find it fascinating that Fox Terriers of the sort seen in your photographs are being hunted and in no way doubt their ability .They are being worked and therefore are Working Terries. I wish you, your fellow hunters and more importantly your terriers good luck in 2017.

[Squirrel_Basher 17,100]

 

Blaise ,I respect what you do and wish our country was more like that hunting wise .I've followed the thread from the start and enjoyed it and I can see how passionate you are about things .Just one question ......If its badgers you hunt ,target then from what I remember from years back in this country is that every sette will have a stop end ,bedding area as this is the nature of the animal from memory .You state you have a certain amount of failed hunts with dogs being lead a dance then showing above ground .Can I ask how many times you would allow this to happen before coming to the conclusion its the dog and not the earth .You state you generally go back with another terrier and have it at a later date .Just curious and no offence meant .The laid back style may be the reason to put up with it I guess but wanted your view please .

 

If a dog go out fast to go back down earth immediately, no matter.

But if a dog go out without a strong wish to hunt, dog's at leash.

 

 

 

How can I say the problem come from the dog or from the earth ? It depends of work.

 

This season, we have 92 attacks (92 time a dog had worked), we catched 74 badgers. Be careful, we had more fails than 18 (92-74) because sometimes we can catch more than one during the hunt of a dog.

I'm surprised you hang on to such dogs mate .Here and for as long as I remember ,a terrier is put in and dug out with maybe the odd show but half hearted workers generally don't get kennel space .Most like a terrier to get back on terms when it loses contact but not to show whilst doing so .Maybe we are on the same page here ,just trying to gauge the standard you keep .