Putting Your Hand Up To Your Dog When Its Done Wrong

[skycat 6,174]

 

 

Punished my saluki x once for chasing the horses again... Little f****r used to turn a deaf ear to me and was at risk of getting killed by them so yes i gave him a hard slap in the ribs... He hasnt looked at the horses again since... And it hasnt ruined our bond... He knew he was in the wrong and he doesnt hold it against me

a lot of it is understanding your relationship.............if you both have a good understanding ,............its so much easier,............im in my two lurchers heads and there in mine ,........they know what my intentions are and know when im unhappy..........they would do anything I want.........and can call them off most things unless there in full flight.....

He knew i was pissed off, he was just having too much fun to care.. he knows whats expected of him and hes still learning as he goes... I very rarely punish him but when i do its because hes deliberately crossed the line and he knows it...

 

we are starting to work as a team but its a slow process

 

It sure is CG! I've got one, 3 years old now and finally becoming, how shall I put it? A bit more domesticated. He is now a nice dog to take out in company instead of a pain in the arse, but he's still an idiot at times, and I have to watch him like a hawk to make sure he doesn't get uppity around me or other dogs. He's not a nasty dog, but its like having a Ferrari instead of a Ford Escort, and he wants to be best at everything, faster than everyone, retrieve anything to me no matter what other dog has it: and yes, I have slapped him a few times: flat of the hand hard on the ribs, but only as a last resort and more as a 'listen to me you b*astard' when he's gone OTT. I'll never change his nature, and I love the dog to bits, but he's hard work at times. He works better with reward than punishment as a rule, but he's also learned to respect me a lot, and I wouldn't have got that without being hard on him sometimes.

 

You don't have to beat sh*t out of a dog to get it to respect you: grabbing them by the throat and eyeballing them whilst cursing them in an evil voice works the best for me, but I wouldn't advice doing that if the dog has already got the better of you in the first place and has not a smidgeon of respect, because its more likely to bite you if it thinks your'e the one that has got out of line. Respect starts young, right from a pup, and once the dog has got to the adult stage without being taught that it can't do whatever it wants, then you can get trouble.

[Carraghs Gem 1,675]

 

 

 

 

Punished my saluki x once for chasing the horses again... Little f****r used to turn a deaf ear to me and was at risk of getting killed by them so yes i gave him a hard slap in the ribs... He hasnt looked at the horses again since... And it hasnt ruined our bond... He knew he was in the wrong and he doesnt hold it against me

a lot of it is understanding your relationship.............if you both have a good understanding ,............its so much easier,............im in my two lurchers heads and there in mine ,........they know what my intentions are and know when im unhappy..........they would do anything I want.........and can call them off most things unless there in full flight.....

He knew i was pissed off, he was just having too much fun to care.. he knows whats expected of him and hes still learning as he goes... I very rarely punish him but when i do its because hes deliberately crossed the line and he knows it...

 

we are starting to work as a team but its a slow process

It sure is CG! I've got one, 3 years old now and finally becoming, how shall I put it? A bit more domesticated. He is now a nice dog to take out in company instead of a pain in the arse, but he's still an idiot at times, and I have to watch him like a hawk to make sure he doesn't get uppity around me or other dogs. He's not a nasty dog, but its like having a Ferrari instead of a Ford Escort, and he wants to be best at everything, faster than everyone, retrieve anything to me no matter what other dog has it: and yes, I have slapped him a few times: flat of the hand hard on the ribs, but only as a last resort and more as a 'listen to me you b*astard' when he's gone OTT. I'll never change his nature, and I love the dog to bits, but he's hard work at times. He works better with reward than punishment as a rule, but he's also learned to respect me a lot, and I wouldn't have got that without being hard on him sometimes.

 

You don't have to beat sh*t out of a dog to get it to respect you: grabbing them by the throat and eyeballing them whilst cursing them in an evil voice works the best for me, but I wouldn't advice doing that if the dog has already got the better of you in the first place and has not a smidgeon of respect, because its more likely to bite you if it thinks your'e the one that has got out of line. Respect starts young, right from a pup, and once the dog has got to the adult stage without being taught that it can't do whatever it wants, then you can get trouble.

Hes on a whole other level when it comes to ability and is the most demanding animal ive ever dealt with... And i thought warmblood stallions were bad!!!

 

If he didnt have the abilitys he has i wouldnt have been able to cope with the mental anguish hes put me through... Just wouldnt have been worth it.. You are very accurate in the description it is very much like going from a ford escort to a ferrari

[arcticgun 4,548]

I found a check to the shoulder works , just a little jab with fingers ends, quick painless shock, seen the pups dam do it she always used to check em there when they went too far, its more hwat they read into, I can well relate to skycats experiences I have one exactly the same int he pack, he gets ahed and up comes his tail and he begins trying to dominate, most days he needs simply verbal prompt and the tail goes back down, many say dogs prefer t follow than lead its less stressful life is a follower, its really more about how we project ourselves onto the dog or pack imho

[desertbred 5,490]

a dog getting unruly as a pup is testing the water, the pack order and hierachy needs to be established from the out set, the brood bitch should be submissive to you and let you handle the litter from the outset the pups as rhey grow also will find thier own level in the litter , the bitch will be subseviant to you so the pups also see this so accept you as dominant. As the pup starts finding its feet and trying it on scruff the pup put its head down on the ground still holding the scruff this is the natural position for a dog to signal submissiveness, There is certainly no need to beat a dog or pup, quite often a beating will lead a dog to become aggressive out of fear and a natural instict will be to snap. Never allow a dog to get its eye level above yours, as one of the ways dogs signify dominance is from above. Once the dog realises you are the leader all forms of training become a lot easier patience is the key no anger or lost tempers if you get angry just walk away and resume the training when you cool down.

Edited June 3, 2013 by desertbred

[birddog 1,354]

a dog does from time to time need scolding, punished for a misdemeanour or reminding who the pack leader is and for me it's all about the timing there's absolutaly no point punishing a dog even a few seconds after the event as it's mind will be somewhere else, one of mines killed one of my mates chickens, she'd been around them since a babe, she knew they were out of bounds, but she had killed many pheasants, pigeons etc and this bird probably triggered a chase reflex at the wrong time, she retrieved it perfectly from about 40yds away, if i'd shouted / scolded her no more pheasants, retrieve spoiled and probably recall ruined, so i bit the bullet stayed calm praised her for her retrieve and as far as she knew left it at that but , next day went back (with a bottle for my mate) and went back to basics walking through his birds, sit stay on and off the lead and retrieving a dummy a few times next to them..result no more mishaps (so far touch wood) no broken bond or months of training down the swanny and my mate is still a mate although is a chicken worth a bottle of bacardi?

[steve2507 522]

The only time I've really got heavy handed with any dog and that was with my deerx ,at the age of 15 month he tried taking the role of boss over some food I caught him thieving he had me backed up untill I thought hold on I'm the gaffer here and I took him by the scruff and ragged him all over the kitchen then put him out side the pack role was quickly established ,my saluki x on the other hand I don't need use violence a strong sturn voice and she sulks ,the only thing she does get when she takes the piss with ill come back when I've finished running circles round you ,is the catty with a carp fishing boilie I've only had to do it twice for her to click on ,she tried her look the other day ,i pulled the catty she seen and was straight back .

[arcticgun 4,548]

catty a way a few old fellas used to give the dog the short sharp shock on the spot, dodgy recall etc, lol been many times Ive wished I had one or a scoped up sniper rifle as the dog disappears in the distance lol every time it happens I swear that I will buy a pac collar and turn it up full and teach the cocky twat a lesson, then the anger subsides when he comes back and all is good again lol dogs eh ?

[bird 9,985]

 

the bottom line is this, the lad put a post up regards hitting a dog (if) it done wrong. Now i couldnt give feck what breed, or type of lurcher if it had grabbed another dog like it did to that terrier ,and could have ended bad . I say it again if i had caught it on another dog doing that, i would booted the fecker no if's or buts. All this sulking or not bonding crap because its a saukix lol. You hit it for the right reason, and the dog knows that you not hit for anything else, and if it wont handle that why keep it, keep saying once the dog knows (who) boss these things might not ever happen. ive had dogs 40 years all types, and ive seen few saluki xs in my time, and just because it might be great in the field, why put up with this kind of shit at home, eveybody to there own thing, but not for me .!!

Youve had dogs 40 years pal who kicks ya dogs now for ya son coz half of oaps that go hunting have hip preplacements had two come to my house for a terrier and both had it done. Said the dog went to far infront bushing pmsl.

 

 

no pal , good hips and fit+strong for my age 60, (bad back)but could be worse. i only hit a dog if its fighting (nothing else) .And 1 thing i have learned in all them years, dogs will kick off and fight any breed.So like i said on your 1st post dogs need there own space there need there own kennels+ run, and thats why i dont get fights.??? and if i caught them fighting i would hit them( hard ) end off. you (carnt) make excuse for breeds of dogs, kennel management, weather, and if you think i am wrong ask other lads who had dogs killed in fights , i know what they would say

[arcticgun 4,548]

 

 

the bottom line is this, the lad put a post up regards hitting a dog (if) it done wrong. Now i couldnt give feck what breed, or type of lurcher if it had grabbed another dog like it did to that terrier ,and could have ended bad . I say it again if i had caught it on another dog doing that, i would booted the fecker no if's or buts. All this sulking or not bonding crap because its a saukix lol. You hit it for the right reason, and the dog knows that you not hit for anything else, and if it wont handle that why keep it, keep saying once the dog knows (who) boss these things might not ever happen. ive had dogs 40 years all types, and ive seen few saluki xs in my time, and just because it might be great in the field, why put up with this kind of shit at home, eveybody to there own thing, but not for me .!!

Youve had dogs 40 years pal who kicks ya dogs now for ya son coz half of oaps that go hunting have hip preplacements had two come to my house for a terrier and both had it done. Said the dog went to far infront bushing pmsl.

 

 

no pal , good hips and fit+strong for my age 60, (bad back)but could be worse. i only hit a dog if its fighting (nothing else) .And 1 thing i have learned in all them years, dogs will kick off and fight any breed.So like i said on your 1st post dogs need there own space there need there own kennels+ run, and thats why i dont get fights.??? and if i caught them fighting i would hit them( hard ) end off. you (carnt) make excuse for breeds of dogs, kennel management, weather, and if you think i am wrong ask other lads who had dogs killed in fights , i know what they would say

 

I get where your coming from mate , sensible kennel management is key as is being in charge of the pack yourself, when all that is in proper order yeah its fairplay in my eyes to chastise the dog to the level you know to be affective , what boils my piss is when you see these divvies who have no control whatsoever over their dogs be it a single dog or mixed pack, round our way it tends to be those whom choose the 'hardman image breeds' the remainder being mrs miggins and her beloved chow witha APBT attitude , they simply fail to meet any of the dogs most basic needs and always seem to posses the sort of dog that evetually returns to hand for a uncontrolled assualt,

[skycat 6,174]

I found a check to the shoulder works , just a little jab with fingers ends, quick painless shock, seen the pups dam do it she always used to check em there when they went too far, its more hwat they read into, I can well relate to skycats experiences I have one exactly the same int he pack, he gets ahed and up comes his tail and he begins trying to dominate, most days he needs simply verbal prompt and the tail goes back down, many say dogs prefer t follow than lead its less stressful life is a follower, its really more about how we project ourselves onto the dog or pack imho

The sod I have is just too driven. He sees anything moving fast in front of him as a focus for his drive. I used to think that it was a dominance issue, but he's actually not that way minded. His problem, if you could call it that, is that he is the highest drive dog I've ever had: anything running ahead of him needs to be brought down. Out working he's steady and focussed and really great: its just when there's nothing productive to do that he gets bored and stupid with it. Luckily he's ball obsessed too, so whenever he looks like he's going OTT out on exercise a bit of retrieving sorts him out. The nutter loves swimming: first Saluki type I've had that really swims well, and he'll swim out as far as I can throw a ball, come back just as fast, do a mad lap and brings it back for more. The dog is just pure energy, but very rewarding once his energy is focussed in the right direction.

[bird 9,985]

 

 

 

the bottom line is this, the lad put a post up regards hitting a dog (if) it done wrong. Now i couldnt give feck what breed, or type of lurcher if it had grabbed another dog like it did to that terrier ,and could have ended bad . I say it again if i had caught it on another dog doing that, i would booted the fecker no if's or buts. All this sulking or not bonding crap because its a saukix lol. You hit it for the right reason, and the dog knows that you not hit for anything else, and if it wont handle that why keep it, keep saying once the dog knows (who) boss these things might not ever happen. ive had dogs 40 years all types, and ive seen few saluki xs in my time, and just because it might be great in the field, why put up with this kind of shit at home, eveybody to there own thing, but not for me .!!

Youve had dogs 40 years pal who kicks ya dogs now for ya son coz half of oaps that go hunting have hip preplacements had two come to my house for a terrier and both had it done. Said the dog went to far infront bushing pmsl.

 

 

no pal , good hips and fit+strong for my age 60, (bad back)but could be worse. i only hit a dog if its fighting (nothing else) .And 1 thing i have learned in all them years, dogs will kick off and fight any breed.So like i said on your 1st post dogs need there own space there need there own kennels+ run, and thats why i dont get fights.??? and if i caught them fighting i would hit them( hard ) end off. you (carnt) make excuse for breeds of dogs, kennel management, weather, and if you think i am wrong ask other lads who had dogs killed in fights , i know what they would say

 

I get where your coming from mate , sensible kennel management is key as is being in charge of the pack yourself, when all that is in proper order yeah its fairplay in my eyes to chastise the dog to the level you know to be affective , what boils my piss is when you see these divvies who have no control whatsoever over their dogs be it a single dog or mixed pack, round our way it tends to be those whom choose the 'hardman image breeds' the remainder being mrs miggins and her beloved chow witha APBT attitude , they simply fail to meet any of the dogs most basic needs and always seem to posses the sort of dog that evetually returns to hand for a uncontrolled assualt,

 

 

 

thats it mate ive always tried to do the above, and most times never had probs.The only dog i had (lurcher x lurcher bitch) which was a prat for fighting, i had to bring her out in the yard on her own.Ihad a pit bitch who had great temp loved people and ok with other dogs, she was ok with other bitches.But these 2 twats would fight and there would be only 1 winner , so kept them away from each other, no other choise or a dead dog, even though old bess the lurcher thought she was 2nd to me as boss, she was great hunting dog on anything, loved a knock with old charlie lol

[mushroom 13,268]

Can't even raise my voice to Trev without him screaming like he's having the shiit kicked out of him :laugh:

[Casso 1,261]

a dog getting unruly as a pup is testing the water, the pack order and hierachy needs to be established from the out set, the brood bitch should be submissive to you and let you handle the litter from the outset the pups as rhey grow also will find thier own level in the litter , the bitch will be subseviant to you so the pups also see this so accept you as dominant. As the pup starts finding its feet and trying it on scruff the pup put its head down on the ground still holding the scruff this is the natural position for a dog to signal submissiveness, There is certainly no need to beat a dog or pup, quite often a beating will lead a dog to become aggressive out of fear and a natural instict will be to snap. Never allow a dog to get its eye level above yours, as one of the ways dogs signify dominance is from above. Once the dog realises you are the leader all forms of training become a lot easier patience is the key no anger or lost tempers if you get angry just walk away and resume the training when you cool down.

I have never established any of those forms of dominance or pack leadership you post about , the only rule I live by is that when the dog is highly energised I have the ability to channel him towards me , I have never found a way of doing this through dominance or threats , in most cases dominance works only when you are actually present which makes you a threat to the dog and not a sign of respect ,

When energised the dogs energy needs somewhere to go, we can shout him down slam slap fire something at him whatever it is but all we're doing is making him come down through the gears without using the clutch we don't become the resolution or the answer

 

, we are then giving the dog an easier choice when next energised by the sight of something , does he head off along the path of least resistance or does he come straight to us snarling and growling at him.

No matter how dominant or pack leaderly we want to become or think we are when that little bunny pokes his head up and flashes his little white tail our mutt responds and that's where i started to figure out who has the Most control me as the big bad Alpha who takes no shit from no dog or the little wabbit .

We all have our own way of doing things and I just wanted to throw another in the hat , if you feel you can get the best out of him by twatting him, work away.

[Bosun11 537]

Casso, I only wish I was a more intelligent man to fully understand your post.. I think I know where your coming from and if poss could you please tell more...?

 

Just one other thing, 'my ten penneth worth' on correction, what I have learned over the years is that most owners 'break their own bond' with their dog...

 

Once 'force' has been used, it can be used again much easier and for much less. Especially with highly strung owners and from there... It's a downward spiral...

[skycat 6,174]

 

a dog getting unruly as a pup is testing the water, the pack order and hierachy needs to be established from the out set, the brood bitch should be submissive to you and let you handle the litter from the outset the pups as rhey grow also will find thier own level in the litter , the bitch will be subseviant to you so the pups also see this so accept you as dominant. As the pup starts finding its feet and trying it on scruff the pup put its head down on the ground still holding the scruff this is the natural position for a dog to signal submissiveness, There is certainly no need to beat a dog or pup, quite often a beating will lead a dog to become aggressive out of fear and a natural instict will be to snap. Never allow a dog to get its eye level above yours, as one of the ways dogs signify dominance is from above. Once the dog realises you are the leader all forms of training become a lot easier patience is the key no anger or lost tempers if you get angry just walk away and resume the training when you cool down.

I have never established any of those forms of dominance or pack leadership you post about , the only rule I live by is that when the dog is highly energised I have the ability to channel him towards me , I have never found a way of doing this through dominance or threats , in most cases dominance works only when you are actually present which makes you a threat to the dog and not a sign of respect ,

When energised the dogs energy needs somewhere to go, we can shout him down slam slap fire something at him whatever it is but all we're doing is making him come down through the gears without using the clutch we don't become the resolution or the answer

 

, we are then giving the dog an easier choice when next energised by the sight of something , does he head off along the path of least resistance or does he come straight to us snarling and growling at him.

No matter how dominant or pack leaderly we want to become or think we are when that little bunny pokes his head up and flashes his little white tail our mutt responds and that's where i started to figure out who has the Most control me as the big bad Alpha who takes no shit from no dog or the little wabbit .

We all have our own way of doing things and I just wanted to throw another in the hat , if you feel you can get the best out of him by twatting him, work away.

 

 

the higher the drive, the more likely you are to destroy the relationship with the dog if you use violence towards it or at least that's what I've found. High drive and so-called infuriating dogs are usually highly intelligent as well, and respond really well to the 'capture their energy' thing. Using the dog's own energy and desire to get it to do as we want is the trick: that's why I find tug play so useful as the dog is quickly satisfied by lugging and tugging with me on the other end. As Casso has said many times before, getting the dog to feel good in that zone at the same time as being in contact with you means that it links being highly energised with feeling good with its owner. It's a win-win situation as the dog knows it can release that energy with you, and it comes to you in order to feel that release and be satisfied.

Shaking and tugging is like killing, and is the best thing a dog can feel. If it feels so good to be with you and doing it, then you have control over the dog. Take that thought out into the field, and you have a dog that retrieves what it catches because it has been conditioned to feel good about being in the kill zone right next to you. It also means that you get a great recall because the dog associates being close to you with feeling good.

 

 

 

Hope I've translated it right Casso!

 

Use negative force to try and control such a dog, violence, anger, the boot: and the dog will shut down from you, won't come back to you and definitely won't want to retrieve their catches to you. You may be able to beat submission, if you can call it that, into a type say, Collie or GSD, and they'll still do what you say, but try it with something as feral as a Saluki type and your'e stuffed.

 

Not saying that a dog doesn't sometimes need reminding who calls the shots, but a hard word is usually enough if you have the right understanding with the dog in the first place. Nobody's perfect, and dogs do get out of line sometimes, and we humans react with fear at what they might do (killing the neighbour's cat for example) or anger when they show us up as bad trainers.