gonetoearth 5,144 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Khan has everthing but a chin He lacks the will to over come. Not sure if ive read that right.....but you surely cant be saying he lacks heart ?.............The one thing that has surprised me about that lad is he seems game to the bone...........you dont complete 12 rounds with a poor chin getting up off the floor numerous times without " will and desire " Satan80 the " blueprint " you talk of is good to be exactly that " effective ".......its still not good enough to win.......great fighters like Mayweather have a look for a few rounds before coming up with a way to win he has faced very diverse styles and coped relatively easy............i personally think the only type of fighter who can beat Mayweather at this time is someone with the speed to beat him to the punch and win the individual rounds....someone with the discipline to not hang around long in one place......a Hector Camacho type if you remember him.......high work rate without getting too involved....maybe even a scaled down Calzaghe type................whether theres anyone out there with that style at the highest level i dont know. . No gnasher he has heart but lacks the will to over come he seems to get lost lack of concentration take his mind off the game plan He frustrates me and did so as ab I think i see what your saying............lacks the discipline to stick to a game plan you mean ?.......i agree.............he,s too willing to fight fire with fire when he gets tagged like your other post said.....theres no place in a boxing ring for macho bravado shit.....totally agree . Spot on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
*The*Field*Marshall* 674 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
*The*Field*Marshall* 674 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Mmm good points made inan. . But essentially it's the points in the latter end of your post that makes me think he could be more than a match for Mayweather. . Ha saying that, I haven't seen the full fight lawrence. . Although Alvarez's dip in stamina did concern me. . Saying that, Trout looks a strong fighter. . Gnash, I don't know whether its the fact that I think the mexican boy is that good or whether its because i don't rate Mayweather as highly as some. . Mayweather has skill in abundance, as much as any fighter to ever lace on gloves. . But I don't think he's fought the best at the right times, yes he's beaten every fighter put in front of him, but I don't think he's boxed anyone as dangerous Alvarez. . I see what you mean in him "being made for Mayweather" but he's not so dissimilar to Cotto? Yet stronger, bigger and more explosive. . Cotto gave Mayweather trouble. . Ultimately, I wouldn't put my car on Mayweather losing, is skill is sublime. . My thoughts pretty much exactly. Alvarez is like a younger, fresher Cotto, who gave Floyd a real fight. Cotto set somewhat of a blueprint to be effective against Mayweather, use angles to close the gap, head on chest, combination punching and finish on the left hand, which exposed the weakness in Floyd's Philly shell defence when on the ropes, he got caught over and over leaning back to his right. Problem is, Floyd looked to have adapted against Guerrero, didn't back up to the ropes, span off on angles back to centre ring, didn't get lazy and dictated behind his back hand like normal. Alvarez is a huge light middle, if he gets in range enough I've no doubt he can hurt Floyd. Problem is, we just don't know how good Alvarez is, the step up from the Matthew Hattons to Mayweather is just light years, obviously. But he showed different sides of his game against Trout, great head movement, timing, judging of distance, he's so young that he's still developing new skills every fight, whether he'll have enough to deal with billy big bollocks is another question, but it will be fun finding out!! Lol at the end of that, good post sat. . That is the worry, how good is the boy, it's not who he's beaten that's impressed me, but how he's done it. . Besides his obvious attributes, it's his clinical punching, cool head and muturity that I like, however Mayweather is certainly going to test everything Alvarez has with intense scrutiny. . I wonder if it will be a pay per view fight, prime time channel I'd guess. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
*The*Field*Marshall* 674 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 I think I'm gonna leave this thread be until nearer the time, September 14th is a little way off. . and if I spent the next 3.5 months elaborating on how I think Alvarez can beat Mayweather, I'm gonna look a bit silly if Floyd wipes the floor with him!! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marshman 7,757 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 I can only see a Mayweather win , points or late stoppage would be my bet . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
satan80 358 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Khan has everthing but a chin He lacks the will to over come. Not sure if ive read that right.....but you surely cant be saying he lacks heart ?.............The one thing that has surprised me about that lad is he seems game to the bone...........you dont complete 12 rounds with a poor chin getting up off the floor numerous times without " will and desire " Satan80 the " blueprint " you talk of is good to be exactly that " effective ".......its still not good enough to win.......great fighters like Mayweather have a look for a few rounds before coming up with a way to win he has faced very diverse styles and coped relatively easy............i personally think the only type of fighter who can beat Mayweather at this time is someone with the speed to beat him to the punch and win the individual rounds....someone with the discipline to not hang around long in one place......a Hector Camacho type if you remember him.......high work rate without getting too involved....maybe even a scaled down Calzaghe type................whether theres anyone out there with that style at the highest level i dont know. Camacho good fighter, wouldn't fancy him against Floyd though. I agree that a high work rate is the key, but I think someone needs to get involved to beat him, his speed is his biggest asset, anyone who stays out of punching range ends up getting pot shotted with those lightening single shots, because his timing and sense of distance is so good. Swarming, intelligent pressure is what's needed, and a decent chin because you're gonna end up taking shots on the way in, Cotto was having success, gambling and walking through punches to get on the inside, then letting his hands go. Duran/Wilfredo Gomez style would be ideal, I'd love someone to be able to pressure him like that. I agree that there's no-one I'd back to beat him now though, but Alvarez is a big guy approaching his prime, which is why I'm surprised and excited that Floyd has taken the fight, after blatantly ducking Margarito, Williams and Cotto (at his peak). Alverez reminds me of tony sibson He walks in his range finder is his head , wanting to take shots. Bravado dont. Win belts. , his foot work is very very poor Even presure boxers need mobility. And upper body movement take four to land one tactics soon come unstuck. Unless you ko your opponant Omho Not having that, Alvarez has very sound fundamentals, his footwork is not the quickest but he's perfectly balanced at all times, closes distance well and gets awesome leverage on his shots when he's throwing combinations. He also doesn't take that many shots, his defence is good, head movement and parrying against Trout were great Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gonetoearth 5,144 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 He won that fight , were disscussing his chances against the best boxer/ fighter in the game at the moment , alverez stance throught out that fight was far to wide. Limiting his abiltlity to go forward into range and backward out of range the were not many infights His cross right is very slow and his he is untidy , the next opponant will not be so forgiving. Maywayweathers foot work is picture perfect front back and laturaly He can throw shots of the back zipping them in whilst pushing out of range , he can infight And turn a boxer because of his sound balance and callculated use of foot work there is Good and there is great. Mayweather falls in the latter category Quote Link to post Share on other sites
satan80 358 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Agree with everything you say about Mayweather's strengths, he's great in all areas, underrated on the inside like you say. Alvarez is still the toughest fight out there for him though, below middleweight, Floyd looked like he'd lost a step against Cotto, Guerrero couldn't exploit anything cause he just wasn't good enough and Mayweather's style is made for a southpaw, but if Canelo can keep a high work rate (will that extra 2 pound loss effect him?) then you never know... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gonetoearth 5,144 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Great to debate with like minded people. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
satan80 358 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Great to debate with like minded people. That's the thing with boxing, so much to talk about, and no other sport has the amount of variables that come into play on the night, only ever takes one punch for all our predictions to go out the window and leave us looking like mugs ha I've never even posted on the general forum before, great to know there's some knowledgable boxing folk here, I will visit more often! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
satan80 358 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Going slightly of subject,, and on to somthing gnash said earlier about being 12 lbs over the weight limit at the time of the fight.. What's your thoughts on this? Do any of you think this cutting weight,, then banging it back on after the weigh in takes somthing out of the fighters,,, and is it in all honesty fair? I think there should be two weigh inns,,, the one the day befor like they do,,, and 1 just befor the fight,,,it would stop all this carry on,,, and fighters would be the weight they should be,, I bet this didn't happen 50 year ago Big can of worms that, lots of people argue for same day weigh in but in my experience guys will still try to cut weight to gain a size advantage, and dehydrating then fighting a couple of hours later is a recipe for disaster and brain injury. When I boxed as an amateur I did some daft stuff to make weight, not eating for 24hours, sauna etc, there's still a culture in boxing that lower weight is always better, but I think I'd have fought better at least one weight division up and with body fully replenished. I think 2 weigh in's like you say could be an option, at the top level a few champions have started putting this in as a clause in the contract for title fights ie opponent can't come in more than 7 pounds heavier. I've got a mate who packs on 18 pounds between weigh in and fight, he's on a drip the night before the fight to put in the fluids he's lost, nutcase... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Desmond 480 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Alvarez is a lazy fighter and likes to set himself to throw his powerful combinations,mayweather will never let him get set and so will box his face off.If alvarez had been a pressure fighter who could have tested floyds old legs for 12 hard rounds it could have been interesting but I cant see him changing just for this fight,mayweather is to quick and slick but like lads have said hes one of the best matches out there! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TOMO 25,890 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Going slightly of subject,, and on to somthing gnash said earlier about being 12 lbs over the weight limit at the time of the fight.. What's your thoughts on this? Do any of you think this cutting weight,, then banging it back on after the weigh in takes somthing out of the fighters,,, and is it in all honesty fair? I think there should be two weigh inns,,, the one the day befor like they do,,, and 1 just befor the fight,,,it would stop all this carry on,,, and fighters would be the weight they should be,, I bet this didn't happen 50 year ago Big can of worms that, lots of people argue for same day weigh in but in my experience guys will still try to cut weight to gain a size advantage, and dehydrating then fighting a couple of hours later is a recipe for disaster and brain injury. When I boxed as an amateur I did some daft stuff to make weight, not eating for 24hours, sauna etc, there's still a culture in boxing that lower weight is always better, but I think I'd have fought better at least one weight division up and with body fully replenished. I think 2 weigh in's like you say could be an option, at the top level a few champions have started putting this in as a clause in the contract for title fights ie opponent can't come in more than 7 pounds heavier. I've got a mate who packs on 18 pounds between weigh in and fight, he's on a drip the night before the fight to put in the fluids he's lost, nutcase... That is nuts,, it's this kind of thing I'm talking about,,, can't see why it can't be the day befor ,,,, then again when you get in the ring... Lets have fighters fighting at there weight Quote Link to post Share on other sites
*The*Field*Marshall* 674 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 Mmmm yes I'm back. . . Too much bait to resist! Nice to have you on the thread satan80, you certainly know your stuff - stick around! As I've said many times previous, Mayweather's skills are like gifts from the gods, enought to make a failure like me sick. . But I know that there is more to boxing than skill and speed, not that Mayweather lacks in any other departments. . But I can't possibly compare him with the welterweights of the 80's, Leonard, Duran, Benitez and Hearns had each other to test themselves against and not mention other legendary fighters, Hagler for one. . Mayweather hasn't had anything like the aforementioned pitted against him and I'm a firm believer in the saying "that what's not been tested can't be trusted" I'm not sure if Mayweather can withstand intense pressure, hard, fast bunches of punches coming from a man with a granite chin, who isn't too bothered about getting hit, not going run out of steam. . Of recent fighters, someone like a prime Erik Morales, who sparred with Floyd in 1999 and rumored to have given Floyd a torrid ordeal. Alvarez throws fast enough (if a little short), hard enough and enough volume of punches to win this fight. . He won't make the mistake of smothering his own work when close to Mayweather, like so many others have. . You can bet he's gonna throw the kitchen sink at Mayweather, he's not daft enough to try and outbox him and he'll have a crowd of Mexican heritage fighters and trainers who will inform him of what to do. . But obviously, we'll have to wait and see if he can implement his tactics! I just hope that the 2lb doesn't have any effect on the fight, Alvarez at 22 is still filling out. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Desmond 480 Posted June 1, 2013 Report Share Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) Mmmm yes I'm back. . . Too much bait to resist! Nice to have you on the thread satan80, you certainly know your stuff - stick around! As I've said many times previous, Mayweather's skills are like gifts from the gods, enought to make a failure like me sick. . But I know that there is more to boxing than skill and speed, not that Mayweather lacks in any other departments. . But I can't possibly compare him with the welterweights of the 80's, Leonard, Duran, Benitez and Hearns had each other to test themselves against and not mention other legendary fighters, Hagler for one. . Mayweather hasn't had anything like the aforementioned pitted against him and I'm a firm believer in the saying "that what's not been tested can't be trusted" I'm not sure if Mayweather can withstand intense pressure, hard, fast bunches of punches coming from a man with a granite chin, who isn't too bothered about getting hit, not going run out of steam. . Of recent fighters, someone like a prime Erik Morales, who sparred with Floyd in 1999 and rumored to have given Floyd a torrid ordeal. Alvarez throws fast enough (if a little short), hard enough and enough volume of punches to win this fight. . He won't make the mistake of smothering his own work when close to Mayweather, like so many others have. . You can bet he's gonna throw the kitchen sink at Mayweather, he's not daft enough to try and outbox him and he'll have a crowd of Mexican heritage fighters and trainers who will inform him of what to do. . But obviously, we'll have to wait and see if he can implement his tactics! I just hope that the 2lb doesn't have any effect of the fight, Alvarez 22 is still filling out. . Morales was a tremendous fighter and would have given anybody a torrid time sparring Edited June 1, 2013 by Desmond 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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