working borders

[m.r1 7]

7 years, he must be a priest to have such patience, 1 question, what did you see for 6 years that made you think, yes, this will 1 day or year! work?

 

I think your taking the piss with this 1, 7 yrs

[Guest shay]

I think if a small pocket of people are willing to strive to keep the working border alive, if they work/test hard and cull hard accordingly, give them away to DIGGING homes, and not to sell them, only breed off the best they can produce and nothing with KC blood then they are going down the right road and my hat comes off to them.

 

Incidentally are there many people left who actually follow the above (as a rough guide) and actually produce consistent working borders, I heard of Jeff F years back as being one of the only people to be found who actually had real borders.

 

Would be interesting to hear from anyone who knew what his line was like, I met him only once and never got the chance to speak to him.

Edited September 25, 2007 by shay

[metz 0]

oh shit hear we go with the piss taking bit, in reply to wilf and the other guy , my dog has always gone to most quarry with a good relish about him , but was slow to come on to others, but this past year something changed in him which was quite noticeable , and now he is definitly more consistant , i go out with him as much as i can , but being a saturation diver i am offshore alot so when we can we can, and all i say is he dont let me down as yet .

[Simoman 110]

this past year something changed in him which was quite noticeable

 

 

Arthritis?

 

 

Only joking, if your happy with your dog thats all that counts.........

[metz 0]

i cant wait to get warmed up on this site the banter feels good , beware !!

[Dawn B 212]

Jeff was a smashing bloke, my friend knew him very well. He worked KC registered show champion Borders too!

[Guest shay]

Jeff was a smashing bloke, my friend knew him very well. He worked KC registered show champion Borders too!

 

 

I thought his stuff were unregistered Dawn, just goes to show.

 

So are there any REAL Border lines out there that graft and have done for years and years ?

[Guest WILF]

I was talking to a hunt terrierman on Saturday who uses borders............but said he had a black dog as back up

He rated them mind, not just as bolters either was my immpression...........said they originated in the Yorkshire area.

[Big bald beautiful 1,231]

I known an old guy local that has had a good border.

watched his youngest being dug to, he used to go out with the hunt.

 

http://www.theborderterrierclub.co.uk/archiveely.htm

[loftmonkey 2]

I KNOW A LOCAL HUNT TERRIERMAN THAT ALSO USES BORDERS AND TWO LOCAL GAMEKEEPERS ALL IN YORKSHIRE AREA

[metz 0]

ok, so there are a few around , if any body can put me in the right direction with these people , i would be thankful

[loftmonkey 2]

metz there is a gamekeeper who maybe breeding his bitch around xmas so they would be ready end of feb if all goes to plan. I might be having a bitch of him, but yet to see his dogs as i don't know him personally just been recommended by a couple of digging lads i know locally.

[kerryb 103]

Hi, I got a cracking hard little bitch from a F.Wells in Callington in Cornwall about 12 years age. No looker by any means but an absolute demon on anything. Scared of all other dogs but would regulary kill big foxes by beaking, drawing and then choking them. Used her with ferrets but due to my inexperience she was a liability with the ferrets. She also had a tendency to crunch hedgehogs through their backs regardless of their spikes! And as for cats(oops!) say no more. Her brother was a better looker but apparently useless for sport, so there are some out there if you get the right one. But after reading a lot on patterdales it appears theres a better percentage chance of getting a good one. I am no expert whatsover, but this is my opinion.

[m.r1 7]

Jeff was a smashing bloke, my friend knew him very well. He worked KC registered show champion Borders too!

 

Shoudnt really talk about the man as he has now passed away, however, for the protection of the Broder terier enthuisiast coming through the ranks, do not be taken in by the sales shit of todays breeders that will quote that Fenerolli had good working Borders, he didnt, he was a breeder that did work his terriers to a fashion. Jeff when he passed away had in excess of 30 terriers in his kennel and not 1 was a working terrier. He did work his terriers and loved his hunting, however, he would regularly work 2 terriers to ground, so the moral of the story is "they are inferior working terriers and if mass produced may, I repeat may produce the odd decent worker. All depends on how much time you have, I know one site member had 7 years to spare!

 

I will say it again with confidence, relate to the comments thread and my last comments, the only way you will get PURE working Borders from a proven line that has been fully tested over generations and also produces off spring that follow suit is from LAP LAND, They simply do not exist any more in the Premiership league of terrier work or men. Bolting the odd fox from a pipe or a 3 hole earth, 2 foot 10 minute digs will not test a terrier, a terrier haveing 5 to 10 digs a season will not be a test for any terrier.

 

My advice to any person who likes Borders and wishes to work them is to go for a 3/4 cross to a fell/Lakey, you will get some Border looks and characteristics and you will improve your chances of getting a worker. But genuine earth dogs, the possibility is very low and time consuming, but if you have the time, good luck.

 

My last comment, if people cannot see the light by now they never will, any silly remarks I will leave for Frank TO REPLY

 

Still never got a response about Cunningham Rice, they made some money out of the sanme conversation we are having now some 20 years ago so all this shit is not new

 

Tally Ho, tALLY hO a ferreting I must go!

[ginga john 268]

Mr1 i usually agree with the sentiments you write, the explanations and the depth of knowledge make a welcome change from "nice pups mate" but i have to take issue with your comment "a terrier having 5-10 digs a season is not a test for any terrier" well in previous times i managed just what you quote, 5-10 digs a season with each terrier, and both were good bitches, would find, stay until dug to and in a some instances kill their quarry if the chance arose, both these bitches were 110% and were known to be so.

In my humble opinion, a terrier that is dug to 10 times a season and is 100% every time will, after two or three seasons, be an experienced, tried and tested terrier. but there are always exceptions to every rule.

heres a story:

i know of a lakeland bred dog (bred by a well known terrier man) that was ratting at 6 months, killed his first fox at 10 months (3 hrs 7 ft single handed) and went on to gain a great reputation among the terrier men in the south east that knew him, he was put across numerous bitches, taken to ireland where he was worked to all quarry and again put to several bitches.

The fella who owned this dog worked him well, looked after him well, working the dog whenever the opportunity arose.

Anyway, to cut a long story short after 200+ plus foxes to his credit and at the grand old age of 4 1/2 yrs the dog jacked and wouldn't go near an earth after that, a whole manner of things were tried but the dog wouldn't budge he completely refused to go.

 

The question is: was the dog a "proven terrier" after 200+ foxes, along with other quarry along the way, in anyones eyes the answer must be yes, or was the dog a cur for refusing to work, well thats another yes.

 

there are lots of dogs around the south east that claim a line back to this dog and some good dogs amonst them but

is that a good thing or not with a known cur in the breeding, was the refusal a one off, is a terrier that works none stop from a young age until a ripe old age digging in excess of 20 digs every season - including healing time - just a bit far fetched for some of us.

 

well lets hope this subject carries on for a while, as every-ones idea of a 100% terrier seems to differ from area to area

 

 

just to get back to the thread, i had a walk out with a fella a little while ago who claims to have a "working border"

Well it seemed interested but as for working -NO - checking earths and sniffing trees is not working as i know it

seems that working borders are a rarity but as is said there is an exception to every rule

 

off on the wander

 

cheers