Fox Shot

[Alsone 789]

Wanted to share this as the damage is just amazing but as its a found video and not a shot I've made I didn't want to put it in the fox pictures section.

 

Shouldn't need a warning on a shooting forum, but just in case - THIS IS VERY GRAPHIC.

 

Video sizes up very nicely full screen in HD, I recommend you use at least 720P and full screen.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js6Iji0aBcE

 

Most amazing destruction I've ever seen and clearly shows how humane and equally how overpowered the cartridge choice was.

 

Shot in Australia with a .30 WSM!

 

Really pretty fox as well, almost felt sorry for it although the reasons for shooting it are clear - predator control.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Alsone

[charlie caller 3,654]

Dead is dead mate, one less.

[Huwidge 69]

definition of f.u.c.k.e.d

[Alsone 789]

definition of f.u.c.k.e.d

 

Yeah I've never seen a head opened up like that before, actually spilt into two clean halves and opened like a clam, immense destruction.

 

All I can say about it is its really humane, far more than many of the recommended calibres as there's no way the fox could ever have known anything about it.

 

If anything to me in the UK this shows how far concerns about public safety go towards restricting humane killing because its hard to think of anything as humane as that and whereas most much smaller calibre kills than that are humane, there's alwasy the chance of something not being instant whereas with that there's no doubt provided you hit a vital area as the detsruction is just so full on. Its not so much shock as total removal of the brain structure in milliseconds.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Alsone

[charlie caller 3,654]

 

definition of f.u.c.k.e.d

Yeah I've never seen a head opened up like that before, actually spilt into two clean halves and opened like a clam, immense destruction.

 

All I can say about it is its really humane, far more than many of the recommended calibres as there's no way the fox could ever have known anything about it.

 

If anything to me in the UK this shows how far concerns about public safety go towards restricting humane killing because its hard to think of anything as humane as that and whereas most much smaller calibre kills than that are humane, there's alwasy the chance of something not being instant whereas with that there's no doubt provided you hit a vital area as the detsruction is just so full on. Its not so much shock as total removal of the brain structure in milliseconds.

 

Well let me tell you mate,talking about smaller calibres,with anything .22 hornet upwards in the brain box will give similar results,dead before it hears the bang,a .243 with vmax or similar will do just about the same,as I said dead is dead.

[danw 1,748]

Charlie caller is spot on I've shot fox with 300rum and it doesn't make them any deader than it does with my .222

[Deker 3,478]

 

definition of f.u.c.k.e.d

 

Yeah I've never seen a head opened up like that before, actually spilt into two clean halves and opened like a clam, immense destruction.

 

All I can say about it is its really humane, far more than many of the recommended calibres as there's no way the fox could ever have known anything about it.

 

If anything to me in the UK this shows how far concerns about public safety go towards restricting humane killing because its hard to think of anything as humane as that and whereas most much smaller calibre kills than that are humane, there's alwasy the chance of something not being instant whereas with that there's no doubt provided you hit a vital area as the detsruction is just so full on. Its not so much shock as total removal of the brain structure in milliseconds.

 

 

You will see that and a LOT more if you get out after the foxes with someone who knows what they are doing!

 

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, we don't need cannons to shoot fox humanely, I deal with plenty with my .22lr, you don't need to remove their head to kill them instantly.

 

Dead is Dead as already said, the shooter has more to do with this than the calibre!

[cammy12 176]

dead is dead but i would have much rathered of seen fair law with a hound or 2

[Alsone 789]

You will see that and a LOT more if you get out after the foxes with someone who knows what they are doing!

 

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, we don't need cannons to shoot fox humanely, I deal with plenty with my .22lr, you don't need to remove their head to kill them instantly.

 

Dead is Dead as already said, the shooter has more to do with this than the calibre!

 

 

I've been out with someone with a .22 rimfire for a long time now and we've never had a runner (he shoots and I spot as I'm on a SC not FAC). He also shoots .223 although I've never walked around with him whilst he's had that.

 

I posted that because I'd never seen anything opened up like that before from even a centrefire. Phenomenal power and resulting reaction. I've seen plenty of centfire exit wounds from expanding ammunition but never a head opened like a can opener and literally hinged into 2 halves.

 

My side point about humane killing is I have heard of plenty of runners from other people although not usually from headshots. I can't imagine a runner from .300WSM even from a chest shot looking at the total devastation and I guess my side point was that I wonder how much current UK restrictions actually affect the number of humane kills made overall in this country. Yes in most instances you can blame the shooter but people do make mistakes, we're all only human, but would not access to calibres that are more powerful and guarantee kills in these slight off moments be more humane?

[Deker 3,478]

 

You will see that and a LOT more if you get out after the foxes with someone who knows what they are doing!

 

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, we don't need cannons to shoot fox humanely, I deal with plenty with my .22lr, you don't need to remove their head to kill them instantly.

 

Dead is Dead as already said, the shooter has more to do with this than the calibre!

 

 

I've been out with someone with a .22 rimfire for a long time now and we've never had a runner (he shoots and I spot as I'm on a SC not FAC). He also shoots .223 although I've never walked around with him whilst he's had that.

 

I posted that because I'd never seen anything opened up like that before from even a centrefire. Phenomenal power and resulting reaction. I've seen plenty of centfire exit wounds from expanding ammunition but never a head opened like a can opener and literally hinged into 2 halves.

 

My side point about humane killing is I have heard of plenty of runners from other people although not usually from headshots. I can't imagine a runner from .300WSM even from a chest shot looking at the total devastation and I guess my side point was that I wonder how much current UK restrictions actually affect the number of humane kills made overall in this country. Yes in most instances you can blame the shooter but people do make mistakes, we're all only human, but would not access to calibres that are more powerful and guarantee kills in these slight off moments be more humane?

 

 

Of course not, and NOTHING guarantees kills, you don't give someone a cannon because they can't shoot, why make an idiot more dangerous by giving him a bigger gun.

 

Teach him to shoot and Fieldcraft!

 

You can blow a leg off a fox with a .22lr or .5, that isn't going to kill it quickly, simply lead to a slow painful death!

 

Things happen in the field, sometimes even a heavy round can be clean as you like, other times this sort of thing happens, 2 different situations, one shot in each case......... so do we all need big centrefires to shoot rabbits humanely as well?

.223 V-Max about 180 yards if I remember correctly.

 

.243 58g V Max about 100 yards

Edited May 19, 2013 by Deker

[Alsone 789]

I see nothing wrong with those kills providing you're not wanting the pelt or meat. At least you've guaranteed a clean kill. if you can afford the ammo.....

 

I do agree there's a line eg. A .5 would be ridiculous against a rabbit. But I see nothing wrong with .223 against rabbit or .30WSM against fox. Necessary, maybe not with good fieldcraft or skill but personally I put humanity over skill and to that aim I don't really understand firearms licensing restrictions on calibres. Like I say there is that line which goes to the ridiculous but below that I can't see the problem. At the end of the day if a mad man or assassin gets a rifle is it really going to make much difference to the police if he's got a bolt action .243 or .30WSM? Both will kill or maim terribly. The main restriction is the ability to only fire single shots which is the real public safety feature. Again on distance arguments, a safe backstop is a safe backstop, we shouldn't be relying on bullet drops for safety!

 

I take entirely you're point about shooting an animal in eg the leg. That's just unforgiveable with any calibre although I suppose it has happened eg by an unexpected last millisecond movement by the animal between pulling the trigger, the gun going off and bullet hitting. In which case a coup de grace 2nd shot is the only answer and I agree no amount of cannon on calibre is going to stop the 1st shot injury in that case.

[Deker 3,478]

You have an interesting take on a Humane shot, and so do you on calibre choice, who is to chose what is ridiculous for rabbit/fox/whatever, why should a .223 be acceptable and a .5 not, after all you appear to suggest distributing body parts over several counties is acceptable and humane and therefore justifiable reason for a calibre!

 

And I put safety first, I can never envisage a situation where I could suggest giving a bigger more powerful calibre to someone to make up for their shortcomings as a shooter!

 

What on earth has mad men and single shot rifles got to do with this?

Edited May 20, 2013 by Deker

[charlie caller 3,654]

I agree with the op on a safe shot, if it is a safe shot for a .22lr it is a safe shot for a .416 rigby, you need a backstop, end of, and if anyone relies on bullet drop then they are not fit to own a catapult never mind a cf rifle, a fox does not take a lot of killing,they might look big, but if you skin one they are fairly lightly built, I have flattened dozens of foxes with a .22hornet and can honestly say, I have never had a runner(well not more than about 5 yards) I will quite confidently shoot out to 300 yards with the .243 and believe me when that hits them they don't go anywhere, except the floor,as said we don't need a .30 cal cannon to shoot foxes,I suspect the guy in the video shot the fox with his .30wsm because that is what he had to hand at the time,I find it very hard to believe that is his choice of rifle for day to day fox control,the cost alone would be astronomical,no the choice of rounds to shoot foxes in this country is perfectly adequate ie .22hornet,.222, .223, 22-250, .243 ect, I don't know if you watched Yukon men earlier in the year, but it makes you think when those guys are knocking over big caribou,wolves and grizzly bears with a .223 ar 15.

[Alsone 789]

You have an interesting take on a Humane shot, and so do you on calibre choice, who is to chose what is ridiculous for rabbit/fox/whatever, why should a .223 be acceptable and a .5 not, after all you appear to suggest distributing body parts over several counties is acceptable and humane and therefore justifiable reason for a calibre!

 

And I put safety first, I can never envisage a situation where I could suggest giving a bigger more powerful calibre to someone to make up for their shortcomings as a shooter!

 

What on earth has mad men and single shot rifles got to do with this?

 

Well so far as humane shooting goes, you can't overkill something unless you're wanting something left to eat. You can however, fail to kill it instantly. To my way of thinking I'd rather cut somethng in two and guarantee an instant death than shoot it and have it run 20 or 30 yards or worse.

 

On safety I never said you weren't safe, Decker. From your signature you appear to run a professional pest control company so I'd expect you to be both very safe and very knowledgeable, both of which you appear to be. I respect your views albeit I maybe have a less converntional method of thinking myself on some issues.

 

BTW, the mad men bit comes from the fact that police restrictions on calibre appear to be based on a perception of public safety. However, as your own pictures etc bear out, .223 could potentially wreak havoc on a person with expanding ammunition so from a public safety pov I can't see any more reason why a person shouldn't hold a eg .300 over a .223. So long as you're not able to shoot down helicopters etc, the usual reason given for fear of .5, I can't see justification for calibre restrictions on the grounds of public safety. Below that level, again I'd say you're either safe to be holding a firearm or you're not.

[charlie caller 3,654]

No I cant see the justification on public safety either, however a .22 cf is plenty to shoot foxes with, blow a fox's leg off with a .30 cal magnum or a .222 it still has its leg blown off,it takes about 50ftlbs of energy to kill a fox humanely (interestingly the same amount of energy said to kill a human) well even a .22 hornet makes around 7-8ooftlbs, so as you can see there is plenty to spare, as others have said learning to shoot properly rather than getting a bigger gun is the key, just where would you draw the line, perhaps we should all be using a .600 nitro express,or just in case of a badly placed shot, a 20mm cannon, .22 cf are the predominant fox shooting calibre for a reason, A. they work B. they don't cost the earth to run, and C. nothing more is needed.