walshie 2,804 Posted May 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Might I refer to my original post - the bit where i said "Without getting into the ins and outs of who's right or wrong"? I am reading the book and I am genuinely interested in what Dawkins has to say on the subject. I am interested in facts, not made up statements. The statement that more people have been killed in the name of evolution than in the name of religion is absolutely laughable. Asking us to "do our homework" on the subject would presumably entail us reading some more patronizing twaddle written by someone so blinkered by his religion that actual facts can be put to one side in order to make their "arguments" seem more plausible. The worst thing about the whole debate is atheists don't continually try to foist their opinions on believers, yet for thousands of years believers have tried to impose their religion on everyone else. By force most of the time. Sorry, but I can only believe in hard facts. Something someone may or may not have written all that time ago has no more meaning to me in the real world than Hans Christian Anderson stories. Ah? Your asking for views on the book! I've read it and in my opinion it's nothing more than empty jargon. At what point does he present "hard facts" ? What hard facts are you talking about? Don't take offence, but you don't appear to be all that clued up on the matter, Dawkins is a self confessed evangelical atheist! He travels the world ridiculing creationists and avoids those who can answer back, he made a mistake debating Lennox, I think him and his theory was exposed there! . . I've given you hard facts, from secular sources, which you'll choose to ignore. . The theory promotes racism and gave depraved people a great card to enforce there murderous views. . Hence, it's a dangerous theory. Yes I was asking for views on the book and your opinion has been noted. Thank you. Sorry, no. You haven't given me "hard facts". Once again you have given your opinion, and the same old theories slanted through the eyes of people who think differently from me and millions of others. Show me God and i will believe. If you can't (which obviously you can't), I won't. Edited to add: I might not be all that "clued up" as you call it, as I only mentioned reading a book, and no offence is taken. I don't recall professing myself as an expert on the subject. Perhaps your clued up is different to mine as I believe being clued up is about knowing facts i.e evolution, not blindly believing some piffle that people have rammed down your throat for years. I will say once again, this thread was never about whether God exists of not. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackbriar 8,569 Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Might I refer to my original post - the bit where i said "Without getting into the ins and outs of who's right or wrong"? I am reading the book and I am genuinely interested in what Dawkins has to say on the subject. I am interested in facts, not made up statements. The statement that more people have been killed in the name of evolution than in the name of religion is absolutely laughable. Asking us to "do our homework" on the subject would presumably entail us reading some more patronizing twaddle written by someone so blinkered by his religion that actual facts can be put to one side in order to make their "arguments" seem more plausible. The worst thing about the whole debate is atheists don't continually try to foist their opinions on believers, yet for thousands of years believers have tried to impose their religion on everyone else. By force most of the time. Sorry, but I can only believe in hard facts. Something someone may or may not have written all that time ago has no more meaning to me in the real world than Hans Christian Anderson stories. Ah? Your asking for views on the book! I've read it and in my opinion it's nothing more than empty jargon. At what point does he present "hard facts" ? What hard facts are you talking about? Don't take offence, but you don't appear to be all that clued up on the matter, Dawkins is a self confessed evangelical atheist! He travels the world ridiculing creationists and avoids those who can answer back, he made a mistake debating Lennox, I think him and his theory was exposed there! . . I've given you hard facts, from secular sources, which you'll choose to ignore. . The theory promotes racism and gave depraved people a great card to enforce there murderous views. . Hence, it's a dangerous theory. Yes I was asking for views on the book and your opinion has been noted. Thank you. Sorry, no. You haven't given me "hard facts". Once again you have given your opinion, and the same old theories slanted through the eyes of people who think differently from me and millions of others. Show me God and i will believe. If you can't (which obviously you can't), I won't. I can't show you God, but I've taken a few women close to heaven (boom,tish !!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
walshie 2,804 Posted May 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 a great mind no doubt , and i agree with him re god , but fk me he is aggressive in his belief , the way he belittles anyone who believes or is undecided is a bit full on for me ,there doesnt seem to e any ,live and live ,you agree with him or your a dangerous idiot. Ironically, that's how the church is towards non-believers. What church have you had such an experience with matey and what was said to you? None personally Wilf, as I have made it a point not to be a hypocrite by going to church if I can help it. That's why my son wasn't christened and I wasn't married in church. Last time I went to church was for my friend's wedding, which was for his and his wife's sake, not mine and all I heard for a hour was how lowly we were, how "unworthy" we were and how we should bow down and kiss the feet of someone/something I simply don't believe in, along with stories that meant nothing to me and were as valid as fairy stories. I don't consider myself lowly or unworthy of anything. My "religion" if you want to call it that, is to try to live life as a decent person. Do unto others and all that. If anyone disagrees with the way I live my life, then shame on them for judging me. As stated earlier, this thread wasn't about whether god exists or not, it was asking who had read the book and what they thought of it. I would never try to impose my views on others, so to have the same done to me I find condescending and patronizing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paid 935 Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 I think i might read that book, any pictures ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
walshie 2,804 Posted May 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 I think i might read that book, any pictures ? No. No pictures mate. Just (IMO) good valid reasoning. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tiercel 6,986 Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) God is just a set of rules with which to live your life by. Evolution cannot explain Homo Erectus. In truth there is no real reason for Homo Sapiens to be on this planet. Unlike any other animal on this planet they do not have a niché that they fit into in any natural way. TC Edited May 12, 2013 by tiercel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,820 Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 a great mind no doubt , and i agree with him re god , but fk me he is aggressive in his belief , the way he belittles anyone who believes or is undecided is a bit full on for me ,there doesnt seem to e any ,live and live ,you agree with him or your a dangerous idiot. Ironically, that's how the church is towards non-believers. What church have you had such an experience with matey and what was said to you? None personally Wilf, as I have made it a point not to be a hypocrite by going to church if I can help it. That's why my son wasn't christened and I wasn't married in church. Last time I went to church was for my friend's wedding, which was for his and his wife's sake, not mine and all I heard for a hour was how lowly we were, how "unworthy" we were and how we should bow down and kiss the feet of someone/something I simply don't believe in, along with stories that meant nothing to me and were as valid as fairy stories. I don't consider myself lowly or unworthy of anything. My "religion" if you want to call it that, is to try to live life as a decent person. Do unto others and all that. If anyone disagrees with the way I live my life, then shame on them for judging me. As stated earlier, this thread wasn't about whether god exists or not, it was asking who had read the book and what they thought of it. I would never try to impose my views on others, so to have the same done to me I find condescending and patronizing. It's a common misconception matey that churches ( especially Christian churches ) " look down" on people who are non believers......it's just not true, some of the members may do but certainly not the church itself. I take the view, believe what you believe, be that in god or nothing.....long as your not driving other folk mad 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paulus 26 Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 God is just a set of rules with which to live your life by. Evolution cannot explain Homo Erectus. In truth there is no real reason for Homo Sapiens to be on this planet. Unlike any other animal on this planet they do not have a niché that they fit into in any natural way. TC No other animal has such a detrimental effect on everything else on this planet Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Milwr Jr. 99 Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) God is just a set of rules with which to live your life by. Evolution cannot explain Homo Erectus. In truth there is no real reason for Homo Sapiens to be on this planet. Unlike any other animal on this planet they do not have a niché that they fit into in any natural way. TC No other animal has such a detrimental effect on everything else on this planet A point fueling the "Voluntary Human Extinction Movement". Not a bad idea, just poorly marketed by the group itself. Edited May 12, 2013 by Milwr Jr. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paulus 26 Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 God is just a set of rules with which to live your life by. Evolution cannot explain Homo Erectus. In truth there is no real reason for Homo Sapiens to be on this planet. Unlike any other animal on this planet they do not have a niché that they fit into in any natural way. TC No other animal has such a detrimental effect on everything else on this planet A point fueling the "Voluntary Human Extinction Movement". Not a bad idea, just poorly marketed by the group itself. im not religious or even bright, however it doesn`t take much to conclude that we just dont fit in the same as everything else Quote Link to post Share on other sites
walshie 2,804 Posted May 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 God is just a set of rules with which to live your life by. Evolution cannot explain Homo Erectus. In truth there is no real reason for Homo Sapiens to be on this planet. Unlike any other animal on this planet they do not have a niché that they fit into in any natural way. TC No other animal has such a detrimental effect on everything else on this planet A point fueling the "Voluntary Human Extinction Movement". Not a bad idea, just poorly marketed by the group itself. im not religious or even bright, however it doesn`t take much to conclude that we just dont fit in the same as everything else What about wasps? They have no use Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paulus 26 Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 God is just a set of rules with which to live your life by. Evolution cannot explain Homo Erectus. In truth there is no real reason for Homo Sapiens to be on this planet. Unlike any other animal on this planet they do not have a niché that they fit into in any natural way. TC No other animal has such a detrimental effect on everything else on this planet A point fueling the "Voluntary Human Extinction Movement". Not a bad idea, just poorly marketed by the group itself. im not religious or even bright, however it doesn`t take much to conclude that we just dont fit in the same as everything else What about wasps? They have no use they move wood Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tinytiger 831 Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 God is just a set of rules with which to live your life by. Evolution cannot explain Homo Erectus. In truth there is no real reason for Homo Sapiens to be on this planet. Unlike any other animal on this planet they do not have a niché that they fit into in any natural way. TC but we did have a niche once-the archaeoligical remains of human inhabitations are consistent for nearly a million years-nomadic,hunter gatherers living in groups of extended family-theres also no proof that homo erectus,neanderthal man etc werent as fully human as us all(just ugly as fuk)..Theres a school of thought that reckon that the domestication of the dog was the key event that made proto-farming and eventually agriculture and civilisation/society possible..Language,numbers,laws wouldnt have been nessecary before that..just living in the niche... Dawkins is a prick i.m.o---people and animals are just automatons obeying their genes---but genes can be selfish,ruthless,compeditive or "aspire to immortality"--hes a preachy athiest hellbent on converting people to his dreary view of existence..Personally i havnt got a clue what its all about(life/the universe)-its beautiful and amazing-from a human perspective it can seem really shitty and senseless a lot of the time though. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Milwr Jr. 99 Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) God is just a set of rules with which to live your life by. Evolution cannot explain Homo Erectus. In truth there is no real reason for Homo Sapiens to be on this planet. Unlike any other animal on this planet they do not have a niché that they fit into in any natural way. TC No other animal has such a detrimental effect on everything else on this planet A point fueling the "Voluntary Human Extinction Movement". Not a bad idea, just poorly marketed by the group itself. im not religious or even bright, however it doesn`t take much to conclude that we just dont fit in the same as everything else I agree, we've done nothing but anally rape this world for it's resources and beauty. The world would be a much better place if we were in fewer numbers or had never been here even. Edited in: I believe Smith puts it best in "The Matrix": (The embedding on the video doesn't work, just follow the "Watch on Youtube" link instead, if you want that is). Edited May 12, 2013 by Milwr Jr. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ratreeper 441 Posted May 12, 2013 Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Where evolution baffles me is, take crocodiles they've been around since the prehistoric period with little or no evolution - because if it works well, natural selection slows. They certainly evoled into their current form, and it works, so evolution slowed. If we evolved from apes then why are there still apes?- we branched away from apes, and moved into a different environment grass lands instead of trees, so we changed to adapt to the new environment. It shaped us, then later, we shaped it. Why are there still single cell organisms- because they are true survivors and why are bananas still yellow? - some are green, others are red, they turn yellow to signal to us apes that its time to eat, and then walk away, and shit a seed out. Are gorillas not apes and do the not live in grassy fields?. What triggers evolution to slow down or speed up, crocodiles could have evolved to be faster on land or not breath air? All organisms and animals are true survivors what makes anything better than another at surviving? and why do things that turn bad also turn black..........like yellow bananas Bit of a misconception that one Paulus, no animal alive today is 'more evolved' or 'less evolved' than anything else. The crocodiles alive today are very similar to their ancestors but they aren't identical and there are obvious size differences and internal differences etc, but they could be described as one of many living fossils as they haven't had much to force them to change. Something to bear in mind is that over 99% of all species that have existed went extinct, having this in mind takes a lot of the awe out of evolution, it really is a random slaughterhouse of a game. So anything alive today is just as good at surviving as anything else, until the environment forces another wave of extinctions and the gaps in the ecosystem can then be filled by new species. So for example if rats are the only survivors, but the population then explodes limiting the food supply, some of them might search for food by climbing trees and could becomes cut off from the rest. Fast forward a fecking long time and you could have two groups, normal rats and other rats that have adapted to climb better and look more like squirrels now (due to bad climbers falling out, better climbers getting more of the food and being able to feed more kids). So this is a poor example, but it shows that an adaptation to different type doesn't mean ALL the rats need to adapt to climb, just the ones in the new environment, like humans did for whatever reason millions of years ago and our common ancestor then evolved into chimps etc. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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