The God Delusion

[*The*Field*Marshall* 674]

Sorry Walshie, didn't mean to hijack your thread. . And no offence or disrespect meant to any other.

 

I believe I presented facts, facts that hard to accept, but never the less, the story of Oto Benga is true and more people have been killed in the name of this theory than of the whole of religion put together, it's not liked, but it's true.

 

But regardless of the above, I don't believe in the theory of evolution because I believe it unscientific and an assault on common sense, how anyone could believe believe that all that we see and are came from a Big Bang, a random accident billions of years is a mystery to me. There's no evidence evolution is happening, ever has happened or ever will. . I won't bore anyone with arguments about the genetic code, DNA and the minimal gene set concept. . I'll leave you with a pretty video and a verse of scripture instead. .

 

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualitieshis eternal power and divine naturehave been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. (Romans 1:20 NIV)"

[*The*Field*Marshall* 674]

[pritch 335]

no ofence mate but you are cookoo

[paulus 26]

 

 

Where evolution baffles me is, take crocodiles they've been around since the prehistoric period with little or no evolution - because if it works well, natural selection slows. They certainly evoled into their current form, and it works, so evolution slowed.

If we evolved from apes then why are there still apes?- we branched away from apes, and moved into a different environment grass lands instead of trees, so we changed to adapt to the new environment. It shaped us, then later, we shaped it.

Why are there still single cell organisms- because they are true survivors

and why are bananas still yellow? - some are green, others are red, they turn yellow to signal to us apes that its time to eat, and then walk away, and shit a seed out.

Are gorillas not apes and do the not live in grassy fields?.

What triggers evolution to slow down or speed up, crocodiles could have evolved to be faster on land or not breath air?

All organisms and animals are true survivors what makes anything better than another at surviving?

 

 

and why do things that turn bad also turn black..........like yellow bananas

 

 

 

Bit of a misconception that one Paulus, no animal alive today is 'more evolved' or 'less evolved' than anything else. The crocodiles alive today are very similar to their ancestors but they aren't identical and there are obvious size differences and internal differences etc, but they could be described as one of many living fossils as they haven't had much to force them to change.

 

Something to bear in mind is that over 99% of all species that have existed went extinct, having this in mind takes a lot of the awe out of evolution, it really is a random slaughterhouse of a game. So anything alive today is just as good at surviving as anything else, until the environment forces another wave of extinctions and the gaps in the ecosystem can then be filled by new species.

 

So for example if rats are the only survivors, but the population then explodes limiting the food supply, some of them might search for food by climbing trees and could becomes cut off from the rest. Fast forward a fecking long time and you could have two groups, normal rats and other rats that have adapted to climb better and look more like squirrels now (due to bad climbers falling out, better climbers getting more of the food and being able to feed more kids). So this is a poor example, but it shows that an adaptation to different type doesn't mean ALL the rats need to adapt to climb, just the ones in the new environment, like humans did for whatever reason millions of years ago and our common ancestor then evolved into chimps etc.

 

The rat analogy is easy to disprove. There's a documentary about a little tropical island where the is normally a small but stable rat population however once in every 40 years that population explodes, tiggered by the formation of some fruit or other that grows and ripens only once in these 40 years. The rat population grows to pied piper proportions until eventually they eat not only all the fruit but also everything else edible on the island, eventually there is only one thing left to eat, so they start to eat each other, eventually the population falls to a level that allows plants to start to grow again. The population eventually reaches the levels of that before the fruit and remains stable for another 40 years.

[Paid 935]

That doesnt disprove it, give it another million years then look again.

That doesnt just happen on an island either, it happens all over asia and is triggered by bamboo fruiting.

[paulus 26]

That doesnt disprove it, give it another million years then look again.

That doesnt just happen on an island either, it happens all over asia and is triggered by bamboo fruiting.

I will report back later then :laugh:

[Milwr Jr. 99]

I'm sorry, but all I saw there was pseudo-science and assumption.

[Ratreeper 441]

 

 

 

Where evolution baffles me is, take crocodiles they've been around since the prehistoric period with little or no evolution - because if it works well, natural selection slows. They certainly evoled into their current form, and it works, so evolution slowed.

If we evolved from apes then why are there still apes?- we branched away from apes, and moved into a different environment grass lands instead of trees, so we changed to adapt to the new environment. It shaped us, then later, we shaped it.

Why are there still single cell organisms- because they are true survivors

and why are bananas still yellow? - some are green, others are red, they turn yellow to signal to us apes that its time to eat, and then walk away, and shit a seed out.

Are gorillas not apes and do the not live in grassy fields?.

What triggers evolution to slow down or speed up, crocodiles could have evolved to be faster on land or not breath air?

All organisms and animals are true survivors what makes anything better than another at surviving?

 

 

and why do things that turn bad also turn black..........like yellow bananas

 

 

 

Bit of a misconception that one Paulus, no animal alive today is 'more evolved' or 'less evolved' than anything else. The crocodiles alive today are very similar to their ancestors but they aren't identical and there are obvious size differences and internal differences etc, but they could be described as one of many living fossils as they haven't had much to force them to change.

 

Something to bear in mind is that over 99% of all species that have existed went extinct, having this in mind takes a lot of the awe out of evolution, it really is a random slaughterhouse of a game. So anything alive today is just as good at surviving as anything else, until the environment forces another wave of extinctions and the gaps in the ecosystem can then be filled by new species.

 

So for example if rats are the only survivors, but the population then explodes limiting the food supply, some of them might search for food by climbing trees and could becomes cut off from the rest. Fast forward a fecking long time and you could have two groups, normal rats and other rats that have adapted to climb better and look more like squirrels now (due to bad climbers falling out, better climbers getting more of the food and being able to feed more kids). So this is a poor example, but it shows that an adaptation to different type doesn't mean ALL the rats need to adapt to climb, just the ones in the new environment, like humans did for whatever reason millions of years ago and our common ancestor then evolved into chimps etc.

 

The rat analogy is easy to disprove. There's a documentary about a little tropical island where the is normally a small but stable rat population however once in every 40 years that population explodes, tiggered by the formation of some fruit or other that grows and ripens only once in these 40 years. The rat population grows to pied piper proportions until eventually they eat not only all the fruit but also everything else edible on the island, eventually there is only one thing left to eat, so they start to eat each other, eventually the population falls to a level that allows plants to start to grow again. The population eventually reaches the levels of that before the fruit and remains stable for another 40 years.

 

 

Just a flipping hypothetical , I was just trying to show that just because something is related to something else, it doesn't mean the 'original' adaptation then becomes redundant and it shouldn't still exist. Everything alive is always evolving, it is impossible for it not to unless all offspring were identical and they fill niches as they arise.

[Ratreeper 441]

Sorry Walshie, didn't mean to hijack your thread. . And no offence or disrespect meant to any other.

 

I believe I presented facts, facts that hard to accept, but never the less, the story of Oto Benga is true and more people have been killed in the name of this theory than of the whole of religion put together, it's not liked, but it's true.

 

But regardless of the above, I don't believe in the theory of evolution because I believe it unscientific and an assault on common sense, how anyone could believe believe that all that we see and are came from a Big Bang, a random accident billions of years is a mystery to me. There's no evidence evolution is happening, ever has happened or ever will. . I won't bore anyone with arguments about the genetic code, DNA and the minimal gene set concept. . I'll leave you with a pretty video and a verse of scripture instead. .

 

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualitieshis eternal power and divine naturehave been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. (Romans 1:20 NIV)"

 

I know you have written me off since I assumed wars were involved in the millions of deaths supposedly caused due to a belief in evolution. However could you answer a few questions as I am genuinely interested in how you rationalise it. Although I admit that I have debated with dozens of creationists and they will never, ever change their minds about anything so I am not looking to preach to you.

 

Firstly, if you do believe in evolution what is your interpretation of this photo, showing the stages of human evolution:

 

 

If you follow the bible as true, do you believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old? Does this mean humans and dinosaurs lived together? If so, how come archaeology has never shown fossils of them together, they are always layered showing hundreds of millions of years of separation.

 

How did ALL the different, over 4 million variations of living creatures fit on Noah's Ark. Not only that but each animal would need feeding, for example one pair of elephants would need up to 600KG per day.

 

If you believe in micro evolution but not macro, where do you draw the line? What I mean is that animals don't suddenly change from one species to another, they are all intermediary stages and there is no specific point where you could say 'new species here'. So it is impossible to say that micro evolution can happen but not macro, how far can an animal change in your opinion?

 

That will do for now, please don't get offended as generally people do when you question their beliefs but I think this is only due to insecurity.

 

*edit to add, please provide one scientific, falsiable example of ANYTHING supernatural and I will give you £500,000 100% guaranteed. I promise you this is a genuine offer, as there is a £1 Million offer on the go I will split with you As I can't help noticing that creationists simply try to point out things science can't answer and then say 'god did it' instead of using your own facts. You keep saying the blatant lie that evolution is not scientific, so please give evidence FOR creation that isnt just opinion.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Ratreeper

[tinytiger 849]

id say theres a grain of truth in the bible and in the theory of evolution but neither has the whole truth..Id believe the flood was real-if someone dosent id suggest they go and visit the ceide fields in mayo in ireland(ancient farms found underneath 12 feet of peat bog)..The fall in the garden of eden represents the end of people living in their ecological niche as hunter gatherers

[Paid 935]

I'm not religious, but i also believe in the great flood, it was at the end of the last ice age, when sea levels rose quite a few meters.

[paulus 26]

I'm not religious, but i also believe in the great flood, it was at the end of the last ice age, when sea levels rose quite a few meters.

Weather patens are cyclic as are Mormon`s and Jehovah`s witnesses :laugh:

[Ratreeper 441]

I'm not religious, but i also believe in the great flood, it was at the end of the last ice age, when sea levels rose quite a few meters.

 

Aye tis true, but this was mostly over 6000 years ago and it was a slow process as expected, not caused by rain and it never covered the whole world.

 

There are a lot of things that annoy me about religion, but one of the bigger ones is how they can't see their religion is man made. To believe it you also have to believe God made human beings around 250k years ago, left them to die on average at 25 of horrible things like tooth infections for most of it then he suddenly decides to send himself in human form to a remote, illiterate desert tribe in the middle east to be killed and reborn again. A century or so later he lets people write a load of barbaric shite in his name, set a few petty rules and describe dragons and unicorns whilst negating anything found outside of this tiny region. It beggars belief people swallow this horse shit then have the audacity to question science! But when they get ill they don't run to a witch doctor, suddenly science seems OK again! Boils my piss. Not only that but these stories are myth based on hearsay based on myth, all plagiarised from older myths like Mithra, buddhism etc...Might have to stop commenting on this sorry it hits a nerve!

[Paid 935]

I'm with you on that, and also becoming a firm believer in the great spaghetti and meat ball monster.

 

I do get the basics of religion, some people can not work out morals for them selves, so it helps too have it written down. The bit were it fails is that is was written, re written, then re written again.

 

It needs a new re write, but not by scientologists.

[Blackbriar 8,569]

 

I'm not religious, but i also believe in the great flood, it was at the end of the last ice age, when sea levels rose quite a few meters.

Weather patens are cyclic as are Mormon`s and Jehovah`s witnesses :laugh:

 

Witnesses ?? I didn't even know thre'd been an accident !