Best Form/technique When Shooting From Prone Position With Bipod

[Deano88 9]

Hi All,

 

Have just come come back from a bit of zeroing and target practice with my HMR.

 

Have not had it long (CZ452) but managed to get a few 1" groups out to 100 yards all in the bull. I did attempt some 200 yard practice but the wind was playing havoc today. I did not get a single shot within a 2" bull. I would say it was approx a 5" group, that was low and to the right even though I adjusted 16 clicks elevation and wind was behind me pretty much.

 

stats were taken from chairgun so was just trying to put theory into reality and to see wether 16 clicks would infact be correct for the bullet drop @ 200 yards. Think I will try again when the wind is calmer.

 

after approximately 30-50 rounds I noticed that the groups were opening up quite significantly. Now I am not sure wether to put this down to barrel fowling or a change in technique without realising. I had also dropped back down from 16 clicks so there could even be an issue with the scope holding zero. who knows.

 

I would really appreciate any advice or if there are any good videos on the net on good form when shooting from the prone position with bipod.

 

I am an experienced shotgun and air rifle hunter but the HMR is in a different ball park.

 

My technique currently is to have my left leg supporting at 90 degrees (im left handed) and to have my right hand support the butt of the stock whilst pulling into the shoulder. I have tried two methods of pulling the stock in tight to my shoulder and keeping pretty rigid then gently pulling the trigger. The other is keeping quite loose in the shoulder and gently pulling the trigger.

 

I have had success and failures with both techniques. when I was rigid, I seemed to have less movement on the cross hairs however i did tend to pull a few shots.

with the latter method, i found it took longer to steady the cross hairs but did not seem to pull as many.

 

with both techniques I tried to follow through with the trigger and maintain eye contact with the target but now and again I just seem to group poorly.

 

The other query I have is with magnification. My scope has mill dots which are true at 10x mag. The issue I have is that @ 200 yards, a 2" bull is quite difficult to see so adjusting elevation with mill dots does not seem very accurate. It just may be that my eyes are not up to it. So what I have been trying is to use full magnification which is 20x on my scope and manually adjusting elevation with the turrets.

I was just wondering, is there anything wrong with using full magnification (20X) at 100 and 200 yards or does that actually make the shot harder to take?

 

Any advice would really be appreciated. I really want to get my knowledge and technique down to Tee before hunting live quarry with this rifle.

 

Thanks in advance

[richmcgin 32]

Some good points in there. firstly when you have fired 30/50 shots and your group starts to open up it is more likely because the barrel will have heated up and it will hold that much head for a good while, i personally think that this will effect your group more than fouling. your technique seems to be sound i asume your body is not directly behind the rifle but slightly off to one side.

you should also pay attention to your breathing either take the shot on a steady exhale or during a short hold, dont spend to much time in the aim, relax and look at the target through the scope for as long as you need before you take aim there is a difference between the two. what ever position you are in you must be relaxed and make sure the rifle is pointing naturally at the target.

The higher you take the mag the more difficult the shot becomes and if your scope is a second plain one the mildots will start to obscure the target. I use a 4" red circle at 200 and keep the mag low.

getting this right before you go hunting is highly comendable, nice one.

[halamrose 24]

You certanly see yourself wobble more with higher mag.

 

I dont think you said what you do with your left hand. I like to anchor my left elbow on the ground and hold the butt with my left hand which I find helps control side to side movement. Sometimes I use a stick also held in my left hand to stabalise the stock verticaly as well. Still the rifle doesn't seem to shoot groups consistant with how still it looks - I'm getting and inch at 100 yds so my next tests will be with the stock better bedded/floated on my American.

[The Duncan 802]

Technique? I find having the none-trigger hand in a secure location by the trigger guard works best, elbows solidly planted and allowing the bipod to take the weight of the front of the rifle. Remember to keep your breathing and follow-thru technique consistent.

Are you allowing the barrel to cool between shots?

After a while and a few shots in fairly rapid succession, the barrel warms up and expands, resulting in the bullet being a looser fit in the barrel and groups opening up as a consequence.

3 shots, then a couple of minutes rest seems to prevent this.

Of course, if you've a dirty barrel, the groups aren't going to be fabulous anyway.

[PLEDGEY 496]

I got 2 CZ452's. I found that when the stock was nice and tight against my cheek i was not looking directly down the scope, it didn't fit my face correctly. What i did was cut some insulation foam, which is sort of like expanding foam that has set, shape it and tape it to the cheek area of the stock. This has made a lot of difference, especially with the HMR. What i was doing before was mounting the gun then raising my head to look down the scope. This meant that every time i fired a shot i would be looking down the scope a little bit differently. Not too bad with the .22 but more noticable with the HMR.I didn't even know i was doing it until it was pointed out to me.

[blackfox 9]

 

You might find this series of Vid's quite interesting

[Deano88 9]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

 

I must admit that I was not giving much time between shots so barrel heat/expansion is a possibility and something I will take more notice of in the future.

 

I think that Pledgey is spot on also as I do find myself raising my cheek off the stock to take shots. That foam trick does seem like a cheap solution worth trying.

 

Regarding the dirty barrel, I know there is not a set rule and every barrel is different but how many rounds are you firing before you run a boresnake through it roughly?

 

Thanks again for all the posts, will have a look at the youtube vid later as well.

[richmcgin 32]

I have to be honest and say i put hundreds through the 22 before i clean it, but i do clean it at that point i dont do bore snakes very much i do have 2 of them but i dont use them unless i have too. with the center fire i clean it every 20 or so, but if iam testing new loads it gets a good clean before and then every five i will run a brush than a patch through, when iam zeroing i always start with a clean barrel

[Deano88 9]

Cheers for the advice mate. I have read some posts about people getting away with never or hardly cleaning their 17 hmr and then others saying they have to clean it every 5-10 rounds.

 

Will just have to practice more and find what my barrel likes best. As it stands I think I will pull a bore snake through it every 20 rounds or so and give it a propper rod and brush clean every hundred or so.

 

Does anybody find that the brass weight on the bore snake gets stuck in the barrel on the first pull through due to the build up of foreign debris?

Its a pain in the a$se. once i get it through (eventually) it is fine on the 2nd and 3rd pull through but it seems the brass weight is just slightly oversized for my barrel.

 

I will update on this thread when im next out how my groupings go with all your advice. Hopefully not worse than before

[The Duncan 802]

50 rounds is the number of I go by before cleaning the bore - seems about right.

[Deano88 9]

cheers mate, will give that a try

[markha 99]

I can recommend a few things:

 

Read this, its from an ex UK forces sniper who (real not walter mitty i can vouch for) knows a few things, it was written for spring gun shooters a while back but the principles of marksmanship are the same.

http://www.thehuntinglife.com/forums/topic/187884-prone-position-stability/

 

Thomas Haugland also knows a little, have a look at his videos from the start, you will learn a lot:

http://www.youtube.com/user/sierra645

 

Wind reading skills are key with the little HMR calibre in particular, get yourself a cheap wind meter, check the wind speeds and look at its effect on grass, trees, smoke, mirage close to you, then look for the same effects between you and your target to guage wind speed and either hold or dial, practice practice practice.

 

Working out trajectory drop is simple these days with the advent of ballistics software on phones etc (gunsim app is very good for HMR, I use it, it works, Isnipe is good too) however its always wind reading skills that separate the shooter from the loser.

 

Consistent hold is also a major consideration if you are shooting for groups, try shooting with thumb in the up position, there is then less chance of pulling the shot by torquing the stock as you squeeze the trigger, or as is commonly called 'pulling a shot' ie you pulled the shot off course by twisting wrist as you squeezed the stock.

 

There is much that I can type on this subject, but as most of it is already in public domain its much easier to steer you towards it.

Have fun

Mark

[markha 99]

Also, take the bronze brush out of the boresnake, tease it out with a pair of pliers, it will ruin your rifle crown, the snake will still clean just as good in the field. Plus the reason why your boresake brass weight gets stuck is the crimping, have a look at how its crimped to the cord, then gently file it back to a round shape and all will be good.

Mark

[Deano88 9]

Cheers Markha for the above. Some really useful reading. I definitely have enough information from this thread now to apply and improve my groupings and technique.

 

thanks again to you all.

 

Could I just ask one more thing to Markha?

 

What damage does the bronze brush do to the crown? Does this still apply with using a rod and brush also? Apologies if this is an obvious question to ask, Its just that I am from a shotgun background so not really had to worry about rifled barrels before etc.

[richmcgin 32]

Good question that Deano i would also be interested in the answer to that question, one would have thought that the relative hardness of the bronze would prevent damage to the crown but i would be interested to know if i am wrong on that as i always use a bronze brush to loosen up carbon diposits.