baw 4,360 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Unfair to call Jim Watt a joke - granted he wasn't flamboyant or exciting to watch. But from the perspective of a purist he was a very good technical fighter who won and then defended his title 4 times before losing to an all time great. That said though I doubt very much if he would have reached the heights he did without Terry Lawless - he had a great stable of fighters in the 80s, Watt, Magri, Hope etc...all good times. I was a big Lawless fan - every time he was interviewed he made sense and knew what he was on about. Most of all though he seemed to have a relationship with his fighters that transcended the normal manager/fighter relationship. He woulda looked after them...more than others perhaps!!! Gnasher you'll be able to give an insight into Lawless be good to read what you think??? Cracking post there Borderscot.....i totally agree about Jim Watt... to take the title off a big name of the day,defend it a few times before losing to one of the greats......you cant ask for much more than that.Its an old cliche but Terry Lawless really was a 1 in a million sort of person.....he was a man obssessed with physical strength and fitness he really was way ahead of his time in terms of diet and training regimes......a great quality he had was he treated everybody equally.....it didnt matter if you was a world champion or a journeyman he would take equal time and care over you....its soft to say but i really had a lot of affection for the man he was straight down the line with me from the start he said i was never going to win titles but if i dedicated myself i could make a living off the game....he kind of shattered my dreams but gained my trust in one hit ......his greatest asset was simply that he cared... he treated fighters like they were his sons not just from the point of view of not getting hurt,but financially as well....he was in constant battles with promoters he hated Duff,Barrett,Levene and all the other promoters of the time because they was simply making money and Terry wasnt about that.......At that time The Oak was the most succesful gym in the country we had fighters coming from all over England for sparring and Terry would send some of us all over for paid sparring his philosophy was " spar hard,fight easy " he would know just by watching spars what a fighter had deep within and that meant he never really had to gamble with the matches he made........60% of his stable were lads like me just domestic level and journeymen earning a crust,then maybe 30% were British/European title level people like Kaylor,Jimmy Batten,Johnny Gardiner,Jimmy Mac......and then the 10% elite fighters like Bruno,Magri,Mo Hope etc......but he made everyone train together,training was split between The Oak the Thomas a Beckett and the Henry Cooper but we all ran together skipped together and Terry knew the effect that had on youngsters....Jim Watt,John Stracey,Mo Hope they were a generation ahead of me but to have them take you on the pads or work your corner in a spar really brought that little bit extra out of you and Terry was clever like that,it kind of forged a loyalty and solidarity not so much to him but to each other he was a very clever man he just made you want to please him but not through being an authority just by being your friend. Mickey Duff once said you cant be a nice man AND be a boxing manager...........but Terry Lawless was one of the nicest most sincere men you could ever meet...................at his funeral there was a 3 foot high wreath saying " The Father of 50 Sons ".......which said everything. Sorry ive rambled on a bit .....but a thousand words still wouldnt do him justice ! Cracking bit of Insight into the Real World Of Boxing I'll second that. Nothing better than reading a story from someone with that depth of knowledge on a subject. Fkn hell, I've taken over from Stewie good read as always gnash 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gonetoearth 5,144 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 blown up thomas herns choise to move through the weights to prove he could fight at differant divsions the praticality of gaining and holding weight while traing hard in its self deserves respect and challenge for titles to imply the were just blown up dont think you understand their motivation behind boxing through the divisions Its very rare for a fighter to finish his career the same weight he started at.....It would of been impossible for Hearns to stay at welterweight or Duran at lightweight.......to me " blown up " means forcing weight on like Leonard did to make the fight with Hagler......but the way Hearns and Duran moved through the weights was a pretty natural progression. >Gnasher clear your inbox Sorted true gnash but many cannot handle the weights thats why i hold boxers who challange through the weights in high esteam , there have been other eras of talent but not many to surpass the hagler, hearns , duran, leonard , , 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 46,572 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Unfair to call Jim Watt a joke - granted he wasn't flamboyant or exciting to watch. But from the perspective of a purist he was a very good technical fighter who won and then defended his title 4 times before losing to an all time great. That said though I doubt very much if he would have reached the heights he did without Terry Lawless - he had a great stable of fighters in the 80s, Watt, Magri, Hope etc...all good times. I was a big Lawless fan - every time he was interviewed he made sense and knew what he was on about. Most of all though he seemed to have a relationship with his fighters that transcended the normal manager/fighter relationship. He woulda looked after them...more than others perhaps!!! Gnasher you'll be able to give an insight into Lawless be good to read what you think???Cracking post there Borderscot.....i totally agree about Jim Watt... to take the title off a big name of the day,defend it a few times before losing to one of the greats......you cant ask for much more than that.Its an old cliche but Terry Lawless really was a 1 in a million sort of person.....he was a man obssessed with physical strength and fitness he really was way ahead of his time in terms of diet and training regimes......a great quality he had was he treated everybody equally.....it didnt matter if you was a world champion or a journeyman he would take equal time and care over you....its soft to say but i really had a lot of affection for the man he was straight down the line with me from the start he said i was never going to win titles but if i dedicated myself i could make a living off the game....he kind of shattered my dreams but gained my trust in one hit ......his greatest asset was simply that he cared... he treated fighters like they were his sons not just from the point of view of not getting hurt,but financially as well....he was in constant battles with promoters he hated Duff,Barrett,Levene and all the other promoters of the time because they was simply making money and Terry wasnt about that.......At that time The Oak was the most succesful gym in the country we had fighters coming from all over England for sparring and Terry would send some of us all over for paid sparring his philosophy was " spar hard,fight easy " he would know just by watching spars what a fighter had deep within and that meant he never really had to gamble with the matches he made........60% of his stable were lads like me just domestic level and journeymen earning a crust,then maybe 30% were British/European title level people like Kaylor,Jimmy Batten,Johnny Gardiner,Jimmy Mac......and then the 10% elite fighters like Bruno,Magri,Mo Hope etc......but he made everyone train together,training was split between The Oak the Thomas a Beckett and the Henry Cooper but we all ran together skipped together and Terry knew the effect that had on youngsters....Jim Watt,John Stracey,Mo Hope they were a generation ahead of me but to have them take you on the pads or work your corner in a spar really brought that little bit extra out of you and Terry was clever like that,it kind of forged a loyalty and solidarity not so much to him but to each other he was a very clever man he just made you want to please him but not through being an authority just by being your friend. Mickey Duff once said you cant be a nice man AND be a boxing manager...........but Terry Lawless was one of the nicest most sincere men you could ever meet...................at his funeral there was a 3 foot high wreath saying " The Father of 50 Sons ".......which said everything. Sorry ive rambled on a bit .....but a thousand words still wouldnt do him justice ! What a nice post, sometimes in life people make an impression on a man.....that post was full of genuine affection and very nice to read 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,025 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 , there have been other eras of talent but not many to surpass the hagler, hearns , duran, leonard , , It was the best era for those weights in our lifetime no doubt about it................but having spoken to a lot of the old boys and watched a lot of old fights the 50,s in my opinion would be the greatest era ever for middleweights.....Ray Robinson,Jake LaMotta,Gene Fulmer,Carmen Basilio,Bobo Olsen,Rocky Graziano......and they all fought each other multiples times as well. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,025 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 What a nice post, sometimes in life people make an impression on a man..... Thats so true mate....having been around gyms and supposedly tough hard men all these years nobody ever left an impression on me like this caring gentle old man did............i wont bore yous with them but theres so many stories about him i can remember clear as day and i guess thats how it works when somebody gains your respect and admiration in that way.......you just cant forget them. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NEWKID 27,047 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Really good read.... Gnasher, not only interesting to read about your times but nice to hear of genuine affection and respect for a man who obviously played a big part in your life.... Lovely sentiment mate..... There's only the odd person who comes along and leaves a lasting impression on your life and maybe changes the way you think, behave or act... As far as Marvellous Marvin is concerned... My first dog was given to me by my mum in the mid 80s I called him Hagler... The first fighter I took an interest in.. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,025 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) Really good read.... Gnasher, not only interesting to read about your times but nice to hear of genuine affection and respect for a man who obviously played a big part in your life.... Lovely sentiment mate..... There's only the odd person who comes along and leaves a lasting impression on your life and maybe changes the way you think, behave or act... As far as Marvellous Marvin is concerned... My first dog was given to me by my mum in the mid 80s I called him Hagler... The first fighter I took an interest in.. Well known dog in the ,s in some circles ....think there was a lot of dogs called Hagler same as years later there were lots of dogs called Tyson Terry didnt just change my thinking i doubt there was any of us lads he didnt have an effect on in some way.....He sent Frank Bruno to Colombia as a teenager for laser eye surgery as it wasnt around in England at that time,he carried his career on and the rest is history but he never took a penny off Frank for that ever.....Around that time i was running round with my pals doing stupid stuff chasing money...Terry threatened to ban me from the gym,eventually i got done and did a little bit of time i wrote him a nasty " stick it up your arse " type letter thinking id go out with a bang......a few weeks later i got a letter from him saying words to the effect of " keep your nut down,when you come out i,ll take you on holiday then we,ll get straight back in the gym ".....true to his word him and his wife Sylvia took me down to Margate for the week ....we walked and talked about life and boxing,little did i know Charlie Magri was 2 weeks away from a European title fight !!!.....At the time i wondered why he bothered with me i wasnt a world class fighter..............but that was just who and what he was about. Anyway i,ll shut up about him now...i can imagine him looking down saying " turn it in will ya son your givin me a bit too much ov a session ere " Edited March 3, 2013 by gnasher16 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mrpit Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 enjoyed reading this tread keep it coming gnash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Leemooch 160 Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 really good read gnash what would terry lawless make of today's managers people like eddie hearn and warrens son ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Attack Fell Terrier 864 Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Thanks for sharing Gnash. I'll sit and talk to mates of mine who have boxed both am and pro and love hearing all the goings on behind the scenes. By the sounds of things you were blessed to have such a decent bloke/freind/father figure in your life. That was nice to read mate, thanks for sharing with us mate. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,025 Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) really good read gnash what would terry lawless make of today's managers people like eddie hearn and warrens son ? Hello Peter.....Terry was a softly spoken polite old man he probably wouldnt of said nothing,but inside he would of hated it........he despised Frank Warren he used to call him a street hustler with a tie !......Terry had massive knowledge on the history of the game going right back to when the Mafia controlled the game in America he would sit for hours telling us about it all.......he had a deep seated hatred for gangster types which of course there was plenty of in the east end of London back then,he thought they were just vultures.........not many people know but Frank Warren was a cousin of Lennie Mclean and worked his corner for a lot of his unlicensed fights back in the 70,s before he made a name for himself.....a lot of these were organised by Joey Pyle and other gangster types so Terry didnt like Frank Warren right from the off.......then the fact he nicked Calzaghe off him well that was like bringing the pigeons to the cat he went mad and it pretty much brought his time in the game to an end. He never boxed himself but his whole life was about boxing it was in his soul......he could manage,train,work a corner the lot.......these new lads like you mention they know nothing about boxing and Terry wouldnt of liked that but like i say....he was such a gentleman he wouldnt of made a song and dance about it. Edited March 4, 2013 by gnasher16 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 30,025 Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Thanks for sharing Gnash. I'll sit and talk to mates of mine who have boxed both am and pro and love hearing all the goings on behind the scenes. By the sounds of things you were blessed to have such a decent bloke/freind/father figure in your life. That was nice to read mate, thanks for sharing with us mate. We was all blessed mate........anyone who spent a lot of time with him automatically moved up a notch he was that kind of man.......Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TOMO 26,005 Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 What the others said gnash,,, great post,,,, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peter Leemooch 160 Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 cheers gnash he sounds as if he had good old school qualities these no faces seem like they want to hog the limelight more than there fighters.its been a nice intresting thread this has Quote Link to post Share on other sites
baw 4,360 Posted March 5, 2013 Report Share Posted March 5, 2013 Unfair to call Jim Watt a joke - granted he wasn't flamboyant or exciting to watch. But from the perspective of a purist he was a very good technical fighter who won and then defended his title 4 times before losing to an all time great. That said though I doubt very much if he would have reached the heights he did without Terry Lawless - he had a great stable of fighters in the 80s, Watt, Magri, Hope etc...all good times. I was a big Lawless fan - every time he was interviewed he made sense and knew what he was on about. Most of all though he seemed to have a relationship with his fighters that transcended the normal manager/fighter relationship. He woulda looked after them...more than others perhaps!!! Gnasher you'll be able to give an insight into Lawless be good to read what you think??? Cracking post there Borderscot.....i totally agree about Jim Watt... to take the title off a big name of the day,defend it a few times before losing to one of the greats......you cant ask for much more than that.Its an old cliche but Terry Lawless really was a 1 in a million sort of person.....he was a man obssessed with physical strength and fitness he really was way ahead of his time in terms of diet and training regimes......a great quality he had was he treated everybody equally.....it didnt matter if you was a world champion or a journeyman he would take equal time and care over you....its soft to say but i really had a lot of affection for the man he was straight down the line with me from the start he said i was never going to win titles but if i dedicated myself i could make a living off the game....he kind of shattered my dreams but gained my trust in one hit ......his greatest asset was simply that he cared... he treated fighters like they were his sons not just from the point of view of not getting hurt,but financially as well....he was in constant battles with promoters he hated Duff,Barrett,Levene and all the other promoters of the time because they was simply making money and Terry wasnt about that.......At that time The Oak was the most succesful gym in the country we had fighters coming from all over England for sparring and Terry would send some of us all over for paid sparring his philosophy was " spar hard,fight easy " he would know just by watching spars what a fighter had deep within and that meant he never really had to gamble with the matches he made........60% of his stable were lads like me just domestic level and journeymen earning a crust,then maybe 30% were British/European title level people like Kaylor,Jimmy Batten,Johnny Gardiner,Jimmy Mac......and then the 10% elite fighters like Bruno,Magri,Mo Hope etc......but he made everyone train together,training was split between The Oak the Thomas a Beckett and the Henry Cooper but we all ran together skipped together and Terry knew the effect that had on youngsters....Jim Watt,John Stracey,Mo Hope they were a generation ahead of me but to have them take you on the pads or work your corner in a spar really brought that little bit extra out of you and Terry was clever like that,it kind of forged a loyalty and solidarity not so much to him but to each other he was a very clever man he just made you want to please him but not through being an authority just by being your friend. Mickey Duff once said you cant be a nice man AND be a boxing manager...........but Terry Lawless was one of the nicest most sincere men you could ever meet...................at his funeral there was a 3 foot high wreath saying " The Father of 50 Sons ".......which said everything. Sorry ive rambled on a bit .....but a thousand words still wouldnt do him justice ! What a nice post, sometimes in life people make an impression on a man.....that post was full of genuine affection and very nice to read When I first read your reply, I thought you had a stirring in your pants for Gnash till I realized you were talking about him Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.